A partnership continued.

[LiveLife]

blarby, great. So looks like we are set for another round of testing.

I think I will add carbine testing of 1/2 coats of HF Red if you can swing it and still have the 40S&W molds for JR Carbine testing. If you need 9mm molds, let me know.

Speaking of powdercoat, I did try a new color- the Matte Black from Harbor sucked. Super poor adhesion despite all of my efforts, and multiple coats made no difference. If you are tuning in for the first time, feel free to skip the Matte Black!

I heard the same thing with the new HF Matte Black. Apparently the old formula worked well when ES sprayed, but not tumbled.

So I wonder for 2 coat applications if the first coat could be HF Red and second coat could be HF Black or other colors?

rsrocket1, thanks for more good info.

 

[Havok7416]

A coat of red with a coat of blsck just makes a dark red

 

[blarby]

I still have quite a few in 40, lemme check it out tonight.

 

[Reefinmike]

Blarby- black coated well for me with the es gun, i hammered a few flat with no flaking to speak of.

Wreckncrew- no, havent noticed any ill effects on the 38spl loads with bullseye. I dont own any red dot but you should check yours out!

 

[clearcut]

I stopped using the air soft "BB"s just the cool whip tub I let the bullets warm up in the sun then shake n bake its working great not having to pick the bullets from the "BB"s.
CC

 

[LiveLife]

clearcut, but you live in the "Gold country" ... What is this "sun" you speak of?

When "tumble coating" lead bullets, some of us must generate extra static electricity to overcome the high humidity level environment. blarby and my locations (Pacific Northwest and coastal regions) often experience high humidity levels and as posted on the previous thread, blarby needed to not only use the plastic BBs but also rub the plastic tub on carpet to increase the electrical charge for powder coating to stick to the bullets - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=9503527#post9503527

 

[clearcut]

OK I get that,you could just warm them up on the top of the oven maybe around 100*.Not too hot that makes a big wad of lead and goo.I'm not sure what the BB's do are they needed to make more static?
CC

 

[LiveLife]

Plastic BBs increase the static electrical charge so the powder sticks better to the bullets.

Many different types and colors of plastic airsoft BBs have been tested and while some claim effectiveness regardless of brand/size/color (probably live in low humidity area), some claim only certain type/colors work effectively.

you could just warm them up on the top of the oven maybe around 100(F). Not too hot that makes a big wad of lead and goo

Forget the stove. I have a burn permit and thinking roasting bullets over the wood fire while munching on S'mores.

 

[rsrocket1]

I've noticed that the BB's actually prevent the powder from being rubbed off the bullets when they make contact with the walls of the container. I've coated many bullets in 1 gallon ziplock bags without BB's and the static build up is just fine. My belief is that the majority of static electricity is generated when the polymer makes and breaks contact with the lead itself. That's why violent shaking for a short while helps coat the bullets better. When the container is coated with a very fine coating of powder dust I can still get good coverage even though there is probably very little new powder making and breaking contact with the #5 plastic container.

When the bullets come out of the container, the powder coat can be made more uniform by banging the bullet on a tray to get the excess powder off but more importantly, to make the coverage more uniform. Sort of like when you pick up strings of iron filings with a magnet, then bang the magnet on a solid surface. I use a nitrile glove dusted with powder to pick and place the bullets. If there are bare spots, twirling the bullet with my fingers makes it come out more uniform.

Here's a demonstration. I don't spend this much time with every bullet, but you get the idea:

[YOUTUBE]3xND56IIzoI[/YOUTUBE]

 

[LiveLife]

rsrocket1, the guys at castboolits forum are the pioneers blarby and I gleaned our information from.

They initially tumble coated without the plastic BBs and found bullets bumping into each other left bare spots that needed "touch up"

Use of plastic BBs (especially black color BBs) enhanced coverage and increased static electricity for higher humidity environment - http://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...wder-coating&p=2775326&viewfull=1#post2775326

Ya I think the tumbler method is only good for copper BBs the way Ebner is doing it. I think these two systems while looking remarkably similar work of different principles. The airsoft BBs seem to work off static same as ES gun and dry tumble whereas the copper BB method actually impregnates a thin layer onto the lead much like moly coating. Personally when I get around to it, I'm going to be trying the copper BB method as it seems like it can use powders that aren't good for DT (like the APP Pink I've had problems with).

DING DING DING!! You nailed it, one works with static, the other with mechanical principle.

The latex/nitrile glove method came along tweezers/forceps method and dipped in powder coating, helps with coating of bare spots as you illustrated.

I think if you powder coat in low enough humidity environment, use of plastic BBs is not necessary. If humidity level is 50%+, have a piece of carpeting handy to rub the plastic container on like blarby.

 

[blarby]

The matter black didn't even make it to the oven.

Less than 10% adhesion during application. Useless.

 

[rsrocket1]

I think if you powder coat in low enough humidity environment, use of plastic BBs is not necessary. If humidity level is 50%+, have a piece of carpeting handy to rub the plastic container on like blarby.

I agree wholeheartedly about humidity playing a big part in the success of ASBBDT. I live in a generally low humidity area, but when the humidity is marginal, I go to the #5 container and ASBB's. This allows me to do the swirl followed by the hard shaking. On the dry spring-summer-fall days, a gentle massaging of bullets only in the Ziplock bag is all that is needed.

I considered the ESPC gun but it looks like a lot of folks have given up on it not from lack of success, but due to the extra effort, wasted powder and added preparation if they find that ESPC is only marginally better than ASBBDT. In high humidity areas, it may be the only effective option for reliable success.

 

[41 Mag]

I will toss in what little bit I have on this.

To date I have run some bullets in the 10BHN range up into the 1300+fps range using AA-9 and a couple of others. Blue Dot I ended up with a touch of leading, but nothing like when I used standard lube. Haven't tried it with Red Dot.

I'm using some Glad food saver bowls, and black BB's. Takes a few swirls to get the powder up off the bottom of the bowl then a few shakes and I'm ready to pick and cook.

I also have been using some of the powders listed in the following thread,
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?252509-Hi-Quality-Powdercoating-Powder-For-sale

He has a flat black and a gloss black. The flat doesn't tumble but the gloss does. I have tried two different sample packs in which I have gotten most of the colors shown on the chart. They have all coated pretty good with one coat and excellent with two. This powder is about half again as fine as the HF red so it gives a good coat and last a good while. While the price is a bit higher than the HF powder, this gets about twice the coverage for about the same amount, so I figured it was worth it to try.

As for calibers I have used it with so far, 9mm, 357, 41, and 45ACP. I have a few hundred .308's coated but haven't had a chance to play with them just yet. Figured I would do some through the 30-30 AI Contender, and some in my little Ruger .308. If I can hit 2500 with them they will be working at factory load pressures and that will be plenty for me.

Well there is my info, for what it's worth. Hope to do more testing when the weather hopefully clears up on the weekends around here. Don't get me wrong, I would rather have rain than not, I would just like it spread out over a longer period than to get it all at once. Sheesh we got hammered last night here in H-town.

 

[LiveLife]

I considered the ESPC gun but it looks like a lot of folks have given up on it not from lack of success, but due to the extra effort, wasted powder and added preparation if they find that ESPC is only marginally better than ASBBDT. In high humidity areas, it may be the only effective option for reliable success.

When my blood lead level went from 8 to 12, for the first time in my life, I got concerned.

For me, shooting powder coated bullets is not just to eliminate leading but to reduce lead exposure and it's one of many reasons why blarby kindly offered to help while my doctor and I worked to reduce my lead level.

Unless you can use the ES gun with bullet base up, it's a no go for me. I want 90-100% coverage and preferably 100% on the bottom.

For this reason, Winchester 115 gr FMJ with exposed lead base was replaced by RMR HM 115/124 gr RN for my carbine loads. In the future, I won't be buying FMJ bullets with exposed lead base but rather JHP or thick plated bullets. Besides, jacketed base keeps everything cleaner.

Thankfully, my lead level has come down and I want to keep it that way - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=9625420#post9625420

 

[blarby]

Morning !

Another day at the salt mines, lol... at the shop, not in front of the furnace where I'd like to be, but the downtime allows me to size PC bullets, so I'll take it.

Since we've had a number of posts on it, I'd like to redirect to something in post #1 ! ;

If you'd like to extol the virtues of your wiz-bang powdercoat spray system or your pizza-oven cooker, please feel free to do so...in another thread. We're trying to keep it simple, and focused on simple-low tech so that veterans and novices alike can jump into the game with as minimal an outlay of materials and tooling as possible, using methods that have been demonstrated to work using such.

I understand that a lot of methods work very well. Thats awesome, and I'm glad they do. We're just not covering those methods here.

Off to the mines !

PS : You know BDS, all those evil FMJ's in .308, I'd be happy to rid the world of their existence for you, once we have a suitable replacement

 

[blarby]

Ingredients are starting to show up...

Pretty cool.

 

[LiveLife]

all those evil FMJ's in .308, I'd be happy to rid the world of their existence for you, once we have a suitable replacement

Too late. I already replaced the FMJ with 168/175 gr BTHP long time ago and I think they shoot much better too. Once good .300 BLK powder coated bullet loads are identified, I plan on shooting PC bullets instead of FMJ.

Ingredients are starting to show up...Pretty cool

Nice shipment of H4895 (my favorite for .308). I am glad I was able to find you some Varget/H4895 during the shortage. Gotta love Recob's Target Shop!

Let me know when you receive the "magnum" lead alloy. In the meantime, I will work on shipping you some WW ingots. I was also thinking about sending you some additional 9mm bullet molds, particularly 147 gr.

What 9mm molds do you currently have?

 

[blarby]

I have a 90 grain RN in 9mm, and I think thats about it.

 

[Dudedog]

Just noticed Missouri Bullet Company is now selling the HI TEK coating.

 

[Pablo5959]

Hello all,
I just wanted to throw in my $0.02 worth.
I don't load for rifle but I do cast and DTPC all my pistol ammo.

My first bake was using Harbor Freight red using a propane BBQ. Just to see if it would work before I invested in a toaster oven.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=934748

I don't use the HF stuff any more, the regular PC paint is so much more flowable and forgiving.
I have tried a few different colors, but all way seem to come back to gloss black.

At the back of the plate is the Harbor Freight red.

I will dump my container on a mesh over a paper plate to separate the BB's. This is so much easer to pick up.



Notice how they do have some scuff marks on the mesh but after picking them up and tapping the hemo's on the container the lighter marks fill in.

 

[blarby]

I like the mesh option.

With nitrile gloves, those marks will disappear anyway.

On my list !

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

I am still looking to perfect the speed aspect of coating. I currently have two toaster ovens and I can crank out around 850 an hr (depends more on caliber). I use two bowls. I use four trays and while two are baking I am tumbling more and loading the other two trays. They come out great that way :
Some 4's 200 gr SWC


Seems like decent speed but i rarely have more than 4-5 hours straight to dedicate plus it's hard to keep up and I cannot tumble and keep up with any more than two toaster ovens. A dedicated house oven in the shed or barn would be the route to do large quantities for me it seems.

I bought the spray gun and sprayed some with success but you have to build pedestals to set the bullet on (a little smaller in diameter) in order to get the point and enough of the bottom edge of the bullet at the base. That worked fine but the nuts were held on by JB-Weld and they broke loose after a few times and slid around. Also the amount of powder coat you use increases dramatically. That and the cost of the good non stick aluminum foil only last two sprays before it needs replacing. I went through a $5 roll and a lb of powder $6 (HF) in no time. Example of tray : http://s613.photobucket.com/user/shutupandjump/media/PowderCoating/1-19-15005_zpsbe3bfc95.jpg.html and results http://s613.photobucket.com/user/shutupandjump/media/PowderCoating/1-19-15005_zpsbe3bfc95.jpg.html By Beagle333 over on TFL https://thefiringline.com/forums/index.php

That or you have to spray them nose down. Which I have tried by drilling holes in cookie sheets to put the bullets in. (Note: all my bullets are SWC or TC) Once sprayed I baked them but the coating ran down and they got stuck so a no go. Original thought was to flip them back over on another tray (before baking) and maybe even spray the tips to have a full coat.

I also have tried the wet method using acetone and 2-3 coats to achieve the same goal as tumbling. Seems the acetone evaporates too easily and went through a half a Qt. in no time and did not coat many bullets either.

I was reading a post by a guy who said that lacquer thinner works awesome and gets them in one coat using the mixture he came up with. http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/topic/66713-powder-coating-the-easy-way/ claims it's fool proof. Supported by one more claim by someone in the same thread who tried his method. Seems like I may need to pick some laquer thinner up and give it a whirl (pun).

If it works it seems like a much faster method for getting the coat on well enough to bake. If so I can increase my output with a larger heating source or I can use the time in between baking to size them.

FWIW there is also the wire method using the spray gun where you suspend the bullets by wire twisted around the lube grooves where powder is not necessary. I have not tried it. Seems too tedious.

 

[LiveLife]

Pablo5959, BBQ grill you say? That's ingenious! Propane is around $2/gallon and I can fashion a "bake box" rather readily.

Yes, others said the same thing about different brand powder coating.

Bullets look great!

 

[splattergun]

What sort of velocities are people seeing using dead soft lead? Any increase vs plain lubed?

 

[blarby]

Some folks are still having problems with dead soft at high velocities, I'm not with double coats at about 13.

Seems to hurt the small bore guys the most.