A question about the NICS

[Bubbles]

Just a friendly heads-up: we have several customers who get delayed regularly, not because there is something in their past to cause problems, but because there's a prohibited person in the system whose name/DOB/POB/etc is an almost-match. If it happens again, get a UPIN.

 

[jackson24]

That was a mistake. There are legitimate processes for dealing with a delay/denial, but while you're in limbo the system doesn't see you as being qualified to purchase a firearm. Intentionally having someone purchase a firearm for you can be seen as intent to participate in a straw purchase. OTOH, since your wife and you live at the same address and the firearm is for the home, it is not unreasonable for her to make a purchase as long as the intent isn't to get around the law. Her house, her shotgun, her purchase.

If you didn't provide your SS# there can be a delay because of confusion with someone else with same/similar name.

If you've moved recently there can be a delay if there are multiple "current" addresses for you.

If the request line is overloaded or there are database access problems you can get a "DELAYED" response.

Patience is always a valuable virtue when dealing with these sorts of things.

I apologize if I've stepped out of line.

 

[7.62 Nato]

Resolution: My wife and I were in an LGS at lunch looking at some 12GA and I got a call from Academy saying I had been preceded and I could come pick up my 12GA whenever I wanted so actually I was ranting and raven for nothing. I applied Thursday and Monday was a holiday so to be cleared on Tuesday I guess is pretty good. I'm happy happy happy !!
Thanks for all the responses and happy hunting !!

So did you buy from Academy, or the LGS?

 

[jackson24]

Yes I bought from Academy. I have a multitude of address in multiple states. It came back in 2 days actually cause Monday was a holiday. It was quick. I'm sure the next purchase will be delayed however I will wait it out as I was in a hurry as I had no HD gun before the Mossberg. I'm thinking well get my wife a shotgun as well and then well get a couple of Glocks. I'm trying to figure out which Glock would be good for her. I really liked the .38 special bodyguard but she did not seem too stoked about them. I'm trying to explain how reliable a revolver is over a semi auto but she insists on the Semi. Maybe they are better now. I remember I had an older glock in the 80's and it always seemed to jam on the 3rd or 4th bullet. Don't remember the model #.

 

[BADUNAME37]

I, also, am glad for you that this was resolved in a timely manner.

I know the feeling when you feel like you are kind of out of control regarding something -- it's kind of like feeling like one is walking on eggs, really for no reason at all -- just wanting to get the transaction done and complete!

Enjoy your new hobby/sport!
Oh, and Welcome to the site!

 

[Bobson]

OTOH, since your wife and you live at the same address and the firearm is for the home, it is not unreasonable for her to make a purchase as long as the intent isn't to get around the law. Her house, her shotgun, her purchase.

I was wondering why nobody was mentioning this.

Same gun or different gun is irrelevant. If she can legally own a firearm, she should have been approved (unless NICS had some arbitrary "delay" on her, as well). There was no evidence that she was buying the gun for her husband's explicit use.

A family decides they want a firearm to protect their home. The husband could be a convicted felon fresh out of prison on parole, and it wouldn't be illegal for his wife to buy a firearm. Nor would it be illegal for him to go along with her and point to a specific shotgun on the rack, and tell his wife, "Buy this one," right in front of the clerk. What happened here was total BS.

 

[bikemutt]

I was wondering why nobody was mentioning this.

Same gun or different gun is irrelevant. If she can legally own a firearm, she should have been approved (unless NICS had some arbitrary "delay" on her, as well). There was no evidence that she was buying the gun for her husband's explicit use.

A family decides they want a firearm to protect their home. The husband could be a convicted felon fresh out of prison on parole, and it wouldn't be illegal for his wife to buy a firearm. Nor would it be illegal for him to go along with her and point to a specific shotgun on the rack, and tell his wife, "Buy this one," right in front of the clerk. What happened here was total BS.

The story wasn't quite that simple: he was delayed and then returned a couple with days later with his wife wherein she sought to buy the same gun. Any FFL who has gone though the hoops to get a license would see that as fishy. I'll agree they should have explained it better.

 

[Bubbles]

Any FFL who has gone though the hoops to get a license would see that as fishy a huge red flag that screams ATF STING all over it.

FIFY.

 

[Bobson]

The story wasn't quite that simple: he was delayed and then returned a couple with days later with his wife wherein she sought to buy the same gun. Any FFL who has gone though the hoops to get a license would see that as fishy. I'll agree they should have explained it better.

My understanding of what happened is the same as what you just described. I see no problems with it, and it wasn't illegal either. She didn't go back there to buy a gun for her husband. She went to buy a gun to protect her home, and last time I checked, there's no law against that. Whether anyone sees red flags or not is irrelevant. If you invalidate my app because you assume I have illegal intentions, you're a moron acting within the law, and I'll make sure you don't get my business or the business of anyone I know ever again.

 

[Birch Knoll]

If you invalidate my app because you assume I have illegal intentions, you're a moron acting within the law, and I'll make sure you don't get my business or the business of anyone I know ever again.

Do you have an FFL? If so, you're free to jeopardize yours in that situation if you so wish. I wouldn't.

 

[bikemutt]

I agree no citizen should be tried and convicted by a gun counter person, however, if your chosen livelihood involves selling guns to the public, you accept a role that requires you to engage judgement. Anyone who has to judge is going to make some good calls, and some not so good calls, it's the nature of the beast.

I'm happy to agree that we disagree on this call. I smelled fish, "straw" Bass I believe, you didn't. It's all good.

 

[Bobson]

You know, the bottom line is, in court, neither the BATFE, the FBI, or anyone else would have ever been successful in proving any intent to bypass the OP's delay. Nobody could ever prove that the wife wasn't trying to buy the shotgun for herself. In fact, it could have been the husband trying to buy a gift for his wife, when he was delayed; then, as a result, the wife figured she'd just buy it herself. Heck, she wasn't legally prohibited from buying a firearm.

Really, that's all that matters. Maybe that shouldn't be all that matters, but too bad. Laws get passed. Sometimes you like em, sometimes you don't, but you gotta abide by them anyway. Every once in a while, you find a way to make a dumb law work for you, even if it was intended to work against you. And there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[Birch Knoll]

n the case the OP presented, his wife wasn't trying to purchase a firearm for someone else (evidently referred to as a "straw purchase"). She was trying to buy a firearm to protect her home, because her husband was unable to do so.

Yes; a situation indistinguishable from a classic straw sale: Original buyer is delayed; returns to store with a friend/relative/spouse in tow to purchase the same firearm. From the ATF FFL Best Practices Guide:

You MAY NOT sell or transfer a firearm or ammunition to any of the following prohibited persons or in the following circumstances:

1. Straw Purchaser: A “straw purchaser” is a person who is not the “actual buyer” of the firearm; that is, a person who obtains a firearm for another person. Straw purchases are a primary source of firearms used in crime. If you suspect that a transaction is a straw purchase or there are suspicious circum- stances surrounding the potential sale—such as one person picking out the firearm, handling the firearm, and providing the payment for the firearm while another person completes the Form 4473—you should not sell the firearm. Similarly, if one person attempts to purchase a firearm, NICS denies or delays the attempted purchase, and another person with him or her attempts to buy the same firearm, you must not complete this sale.

 

[Bobson]

lmao. The ATF's "Best Practices Guide." Does it include instructions on how to traffic arms into Mexico and get US agents killed, then pretend it's not your fault?

I wish I owned a copy of that thing. Someday it's going to be in a museum as an example of what lead to America's downfall.

 

[Birch Knoll]

You know, the bottom line is, in court, neither the BATFE, the FBI, or anyone else would have ever been successful in proving any intent to bypass the OP's delay. Nobody could ever prove that the wife wasn't trying to buy the shotgun for herself. In fact, it could have been the husband trying to buy a gift for his wife, when he was delayed; then, as a result, the wife figured she'd just buy it herself. Heck, she wasn't legally prohibited from buying a firearm.

While it's very nice that perhaps ATF might not be able to prove a case against the OP or his wife, they most certainly can prove that the FFL did not follow correct procedure.

Suddenly, I can at least understand why you have the opinion that you do: You're getting business instructions from the BATFE.

Well, they do make the rules which FFLs are required to follow, now don't they?

 

[BeerSleeper]

A family decides they want a firearm to protect their home. The husband could be a convicted felon fresh out of prison on parole, and it wouldn't be illegal for his wife to buy a firearm.

I'm not sure of that. If there's a convicted felon in the house, I think the guns in the house may have to be locked up out of access of the felon. A friend of mine had to buy a gunsafe, to lock up his guns, when his felonious step son moved in with him when he was released from prison.
He did this on the advice of an attorney (and to be totally honest, also to keep his stepson from selling them for drug money).

 

[dogtown tom]

Bobson:....Whether anyone sees red flags or not is irrelevant.

Seriously?
Why don't YOU get an FFL and then see if you continue to sing the same song. The transfer of firearms is serious business. Nothing is irrelevant when jail time or fines are involved.

...If you invalidate my app because you assume I have illegal intentions, you're a moron acting within the law...

Sorry Cinderella, but you don't have a clue what is at risk. ATF says that I cannot transfer a firearm if I merely suspect that a straw sale is involved. I don't have a choice. You would be a moron for thinking I would risk my license, business and freedom to sell you a gun. Think again.

Calling a dealer a moron for complying with Federal law is well...the single most moronic thing I've read this week.

and I'll make sure you don't get my business or the business of anyone I know ever again.

Sure you will.
And most dealers would be glad you stay away. No dealer in his right mind would stand for someone like you coming into his store and attempting a straw sale or encouraging others to attempt such.

If I catch someone trying a straw sale they'll get bounced out the front door muy pronto. I won't stand for someone trying to use me to obtain a firearm illegally.

Bobson lmao. The ATF's "Best Practices Guide."

Laugh all you want. It isn't funny.
The Best Practices Guide is an EXCELLENT resource for dealers to help them stay compliant with federal law. You find it funny? I find it valuable. The difference is you aren't a licensed dealer, if you were and had actually read the guide you wouldn't be "lmao".

ATF regulates firearms, theres no getting around that. Whatever wrongs the ATF did in Fast and Furious doesn't erase the fact that they regulate the firearms industry. Simple clerical errors or ommissions are viewed as "willful" by ATF and can cause a dealer to lose his license, be declined for renewal or face fines or possible jail time. Ignoring the clues to a straw sale makes for a short career as a gun dealer.

 

[Birch Knoll]

Nobody could ever prove that the wife wasn't trying to buy the shotgun for herself. In fact, it could have been the husband trying to buy a gift for his wife, when he was delayed; then, as a result, the wife figured she'd just buy it herself. Heck, she wasn't legally prohibited from buying a firearm.

Really, that's all that matters.

You just don't seem to "get" the fact that the FFL could lose his license or go to prison if he completed that sale. If the OP tried to buy the gun from me and got delayed, and then returned with his wife to buy the same gun, I would refuse to make the sale, and explain why. If he pressed me to do it anyway, I would show him the door and instruct him that he is not welcome to return.

My license, my rules. Besides, I'm too pretty to go to prison.

 

[jackson24]

Thanks I really appreciate the kind words.

 

[jackson24]

I, also, am glad for you that this was resolved in a timely manner.

I know the feeling when you feel like you are kind of out of control regarding something -- it's kind of like feeling like one is walking on eggs, really for no reason at all -- just wanting to get the transaction done and complete!

Enjoy your new hobby/sport!
Oh, and Welcome to the site!

Thanks I appreciate the kind words.

 

[RatDrall]

A family decides they want a firearm to protect their home. The husband could be a convicted felon fresh out of prison on parole, and it wouldn't be illegal for his wife to buy a firearm. Nor would it be illegal for him to go along with her and point to a specific shotgun on the rack, and tell his wife, "Buy this one," right in front of the clerk. What happened here was total BS.

Google "Constructive Posession".