First off, in no way do I mean this post to shed a negative light on guns, gun owners, suggest that any of us are irresponsible gun owners or anything of the like, so I hope no one sees it as so. I've actually flip-flopped on whether or not to even post this. I decided to, and I hope no one takes it the wrong way, I apologize in advance if it touches any nerves, as it is not my intent at all. I just wanted to share an experience I had yesterday. I am a "non-traditional" (older) college student, enrolled at university. I am taking a Forensic Science course, which is an extremely interesting and fascinating course. However, the subject we are currently covering is firearms and firearm injuries/fatalities. We had a guest speaker yesterday, the state medical examiner, and he presented a lecture of firearm fatalities, complete with graphic slides of actual homicides, suicides, and accidental shootings. It's a very humbling and somewhat disturbing experience to witness the reality of what guns are capable of, and I speak for myself saying that it's easy to be jaded by hollywood and glorified and romanticized violence. The lecture was just a reminder of the actual power of firearms and the respect they command and the hopes that none of us are ever faced with a situation where we have to use deadly force, although its sometimes warranted. I love my gun just as much as everyone else and yesterday was just another reality check. I know we're all responsible gun owners and feel it's up to us to teach likewise. I know I'm new to handguns , but I've shot rifles and shotguns since I was very young, so I hope this doesn't come across as just a noob preaching to the choir. I'll stop "preaching" now, It just helped me a bit to share my experience. Thanks.
A real eye opener, no flamewar intended.
- Thread starter JeffDilla
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MarshallDodge
Member
Jeff, I understand where you are coming from but always remember, a gun cannot act alone, it has to be aimed and the trigger pulled by someone. 
SCKimberFan
Member
Quite frankly Jeff, I think much more realistic evidence of what a bullet can do would be told by the EMTs who are the first responders at the scene, which would be far more graphic, with the aftermath of the shooting still particularly evident.
You could also do the same thing with an auto accident, the failure to wear seat belts, etc. or witness the destruction immediately after a violent storm, hurricane or tornado.
All of these thing bring us back to reality, to which we must always keep ourselves attached, even when we detach to go post of such things on the internet.
You could also do the same thing with an auto accident, the failure to wear seat belts, etc. or witness the destruction immediately after a violent storm, hurricane or tornado.
All of these thing bring us back to reality, to which we must always keep ourselves attached, even when we detach to go post of such things on the internet.
James T Thomas
Member
reality check
JeffD:
Your introduction is good; I don't think any reasonable reader will jump to a misunderstood conclusion about what you wrote.
Firearm wounds are gruesome, however Jeff, search here for knife wounds, and some other time you may have a chance to witness automobile trauma, and gunshot wounds may not be quite so dramatic any more.
It is a somber responsibility to shoot another human being, but I am gratified none the less to live in this nation where I can bear arms in the defense of my loved ones, helpless others and myself.
JeffD:
Your introduction is good; I don't think any reasonable reader will jump to a misunderstood conclusion about what you wrote.
Firearm wounds are gruesome, however Jeff, search here for knife wounds, and some other time you may have a chance to witness automobile trauma, and gunshot wounds may not be quite so dramatic any more.
It is a somber responsibility to shoot another human being, but I am gratified none the less to live in this nation where I can bear arms in the defense of my loved ones, helpless others and myself.
Restorer
Member
I agree, seeing the actuality of a fatal gunshot is terrible. Everybody talks about "The 4 Rules", and while I subscribe to those, I summarized them for my family: "always, in all ways, respect the power of the gun."
The human body is a wonderful yet fragile machine. As the Bible says..."You are wonderfully made." The machine can withstand a lot of abuse before it expires. My brother, an MD, did a stint at a Baltimore trauma center as part of his training. He developed an Inverse Social Value equation; it takes more to kill the bad people than the good. He had thugs walk in with multiple gunshot wounds, and leave fairly quickly. He was also with the Marines is Somalia as a surgeon. None of it was pretty.
That said, has your class seen any pictures of axe murders? Car accident victims who were not buckled up? Knifings? You get the picture. The trauma is related to intent (or negligence), not just the to instrument of the insult.
I don't think it would influence my decision to arm myself. Remember, you're one of the good guys (giving you the benefit of the doubt here : ) ) The sociopaths have no such qualms. Just the fact that you ask questions about your motivation in the face of destruction is good.
Keep the faith.
The human body is a wonderful yet fragile machine. As the Bible says..."You are wonderfully made." The machine can withstand a lot of abuse before it expires. My brother, an MD, did a stint at a Baltimore trauma center as part of his training. He developed an Inverse Social Value equation; it takes more to kill the bad people than the good. He had thugs walk in with multiple gunshot wounds, and leave fairly quickly. He was also with the Marines is Somalia as a surgeon. None of it was pretty.
That said, has your class seen any pictures of axe murders? Car accident victims who were not buckled up? Knifings? You get the picture. The trauma is related to intent (or negligence), not just the to instrument of the insult.
I don't think it would influence my decision to arm myself. Remember, you're one of the good guys (giving you the benefit of the doubt here : ) ) The sociopaths have no such qualms. Just the fact that you ask questions about your motivation in the face of destruction is good.
Keep the faith.
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
Jeff, I don't think you're out of line at all. Plainly you recognize that firearms can be safely used. What you received was just a reminder of why we need to always be vigilant against unsafe gun handling. There's nothing controversial or worthy of a flame war in that.
James T Thomas, well said. And I agree with what you wrote in regards to knife wounds and automobile accidents, and in class we'll be discussing and viewing those as well and I know they'll all have the same effect. It was just that yesterdays subject materials happened to be firearms and hit a little close to home as I have recently developed an interest in handguns and am in the process of taking a handgun safety course and all that good stuff. I guess all in all, it was just coincidental timing for me.
ZeSpectre
Member
Glad you did. I think you are voicing some legitimate concerns that you want to discuss and mull over. That's extremely healthy, for all of us.
I understand what you are saying but I agree with others, regardless of what firearms are capable of (and it pales in comparison to what motor vehicle accidents do to people) it is still either the intent or the negligence of the person behind the trigger. I worked a bit of LE and I can tell you that there are monsters out there who will turn anything into a gruesome weapon. One of the most stomach twisting pieces of sheer psychopathy I've ever had the utter misfortune to have seen involved nothing more than a broom handle and sheer homicidal rage!
Now this in no way makes light of the heavy responsibility one accepts when one chooses to have firearms, but then again the same can and must be said for Automobiles as well.
JesseL
Member
I think most of the people here who happen to be hunters (successful ones anyway) already have a very clear idea of the kind of damage a firearm can do to a living creature.
maestro pistolero
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They are all dangerous and potentially lethal. From the lowliest .22 to a .50 BMG. An appropriate reminder IMHO. Thank you.
Vern Humphrey
Member
Many years ago, I saw my first really dead man, bloating in the sun, with gas bubbles escaping through his wounds.
I said to myself, "I don't want that to happen to me." Nor do I want it to happen to my wife or daughters. So ever since then, in combat or out, I have been armed.
I said to myself, "I don't want that to happen to me." Nor do I want it to happen to my wife or daughters. So ever since then, in combat or out, I have been armed.
Rich K
Member
Jeff, I appreciate your post. Having been a paramedic for the last 15 years, I have run dozens of shootings and stabbings. I can personally recall a number of times when, if you didn't know the cause of injury, you would not guess it was a gunshot. The most recent was a suicide, one shot to the right temple, no exit, and very little blood. THe deceased was , I can assure you, quite dead. But as others have said,a gun or a knife is an inanimate object, incapable of action on it's own. Far worse, to me at least, are the car wrecks I have been on, and the child abuse cases, the most recent of which was last night. Far more horrendous, especially when it's a 20 y/o who was dismembered when his motorcycle got t-boned by a drunk who passed out behind the wheel.
JesseL makes an excellent point in Post #10.
If you have never field dressed big game, see if you can help a friend do it some time. More so than graphic photographs, the experience of removing gunshot organs from a large body is very real and immediate. The experience has probably made a safer shooter out of nearly every hunter.
If you have never field dressed big game, see if you can help a friend do it some time. More so than graphic photographs, the experience of removing gunshot organs from a large body is very real and immediate. The experience has probably made a safer shooter out of nearly every hunter.
Nolo
Member
I think I get what the OP is saying.
There's a lot of power to be had from guns...
And it is that power that is precisely why we should defend the right of honest men and women to own and operate them.
There's a lot of power to be had from guns...
And it is that power that is precisely why we should defend the right of honest men and women to own and operate them.
Black Knight
Member
Jeff, Ito know where you are coming from. When I was 17 I was a Police Explorer with the local city police. I was working after school with our fingerprint unit (crime lab now). We got a call of a suicide, a man had shot himself. This experience was quite eye opening. Even after all these years I can still see the scene. I even went to the morgue in order to get the deceasdant's fingerprints. The deceadant bought the gun the day before at the gunshop of a very good friend. When people see something like this for the first time they are so overwhelmed they act in different ways. The best is to talk about it, get off your chest and go on. Like others, I don't think anyone will misunderstand. Take care and stay safe.
Mark Evel
Member
Not to hijack
this thread, but, Nolo, I hope you and yours made it through the storm w/o too much trouble.
this thread, but, Nolo, I hope you and yours made it through the storm w/o too much trouble.
orionengnr
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Vern Humphrey hit the nail on the head.
The armed legal CCW holder does not kill innocents or shoot anyone (unless justified), so the real concern is the dead unarmed innocent victim.
Please remember however for the dead ones you saw the ones that worked. many of the live ones do not get photographed.*
There are very few ways of violent death that are photogenic.
I agree with a previous poster about knife wounds being even more graphic and if the person knows what they are doing deadly.
NukemJim
(* I know I used to be one of the guys doing the photography for the hospital and/or LEO )
dmazur
Member
Years ago, they used to show traffic fatalities and the like as part of driver's education. I'm not sure it did a whole lot of good, other than make a few of the class sick. The intent was to help us understand what can happen if a car is operated improperly (negligently).
If you were "open minded" and understood from the graphic visual images that guns are capable of serious injury, that's good (IMO). Probably a whole lot of gun owners who just have a vague idea about it.
The difference, and where the car analogy falls apart, is most of us don't think of a car as a defensive weapon. Except maybe the drivers that are also bodyguards, and get taught things like bootlegger turns, ramming, etc. to protect the "principal".
So, I'd say be aware of the dangers of negligent gun operation, just like a car. If faced with a "save yourself" situation, I'm not sure I'd think about the damage guns can inflict, just how to best use one to stop the other person so they can't injure me.
Good reminder, guns can cause an awful lot of damage. Movies and TV are nonsense.
If you were "open minded" and understood from the graphic visual images that guns are capable of serious injury, that's good (IMO). Probably a whole lot of gun owners who just have a vague idea about it.
The difference, and where the car analogy falls apart, is most of us don't think of a car as a defensive weapon. Except maybe the drivers that are also bodyguards, and get taught things like bootlegger turns, ramming, etc. to protect the "principal".
So, I'd say be aware of the dangers of negligent gun operation, just like a car. If faced with a "save yourself" situation, I'm not sure I'd think about the damage guns can inflict, just how to best use one to stop the other person so they can't injure me.
Good reminder, guns can cause an awful lot of damage. Movies and TV are nonsense.
yokel
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Well, to be an armed citizen basically means being ready and willing to kill in war on our shores.
One must be ready to face up to the searing, chaotic reality of having to repeatedly kill other human beings.
Watching someone closely through the telescopic sight of a rifle before pulling the trigger.
Or close combat with no regard to group tactics or fighting as an organized unit; each participant fighting as an individual.
Seeing the disfigured corpse of a person you just killed.
One must be ready to face up to the searing, chaotic reality of having to repeatedly kill other human beings.
Watching someone closely through the telescopic sight of a rifle before pulling the trigger.
Or close combat with no regard to group tactics or fighting as an organized unit; each participant fighting as an individual.
Seeing the disfigured corpse of a person you just killed.
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