A thread to advocate at least 10 rounds in the magazine.

[CDW4ME]

Main Idea: It is better to have ammo and not need it than need ammo and not have it.

Examples of pistols that meet the criteria of 10+:
45 acp: Glock 30SF / 10 + 1
40 S&W: Glock 23C / 13 + 1
9mm: Glock 19 / 15 + 1
Those Glocks are concealable with light clothing and offer at least 10 + 1 round capacity (+ spare magazine)

As can be seen in this video, some people are hard to stop and additional rounds may be required.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e75_1464135562

It sounds / looks like ~7 shots were needed to stop one guy with a knife.

 

[murf]

the weapon between your ears is always your best defense. learn to deal with a situation with what you have. if this scenario was in a school parking lot, you would have zero rounds to deal with this guy. yes, i'm not an leo.

murf

 

[Coyote3855]

Yeah, I've heard that only time you have too much ammo is if you're on fire or drowning. That said, my edc is an S&W airweight and a speed strip reload. I'm not a cop. I am situationally aware. I am seldom in sketchy areas. When I travel, I carry a S&W M19 with two extra magazines.

 

[danez71]

I don't think that's a good video to try to prove your point. I think it more proves that forward momentum of a human trumps any handgun caliber.

I do agree that more rounds is better than fewer. But, there is a point of diminishing returns.


Is this really a Glock thread?

 

[CDW4ME]

the weapon between your ears is always your best defense. learn to deal with a situation with what you have. if this scenario was in a school parking lot, you would have zero rounds to deal with this guy. yes, i'm not an leo.

murf

 

[CDW4ME]

Yeah, I've heard that only time you have too much ammo is if you're on fire or drowning. That said, my edc is an S&W airweight and a speed strip reload. I'm not a cop. I am situationally aware. I am seldom in sketchy areas. When I travel, I carry a S&W M19 with two extra magazines.

The people from "sketchy areas" or where you go when you travel are not going to show up when you have the airweight?

The airweight would have been empty before stopping the threat in video.

 

[khegglie]

^^ ?

I dont get the graph CDW, please explain.

 

[CDW4ME]

I don't think that's a good video to try to prove your point. I think it more proves that forward momentum of a human trumps any handgun caliber.

I do agree that more rounds is better than fewer. But, there is a point of diminishing returns.


Is this really a Glock thread?

The video supports my position quite well, one threat took 7 rounds to stop; if shot placement had not been as good (maybe miss) or add just one more attacker...

The Glocks I mentioned are popular choices, not over the top / diminishing returns.

Its not a Glock thread, my wife carries a Beretta PX4 Compact http://www.beretta.com/en-us/px4-storm-compact/

 

[CDW4ME]

I dont get the graph CDW, please explain.

Thread is advocating at least 10 rounds in the magazine.

Someone replies that the best weapon is between ears, can't have a gun in a school parking lot, they are missing the point of the thread.

This thread is not for those that want to rationalize carrying 5-7 rounds (less than 10) based on location, perceived threat, or enhanced situational awareness.

 

[HKGuns]

Looks more like a gLoCk sales pitch to me. Glad you like your gLoCk's.

 

[tarosean]

one threat took 7 rounds to stop; if shot placement had not been as good (maybe miss) or add just one more attacker...

Really? Are you LEO or MIL?

Seems unlikely a civilian would be put in the same type of position/situation. In addition, it happened in CA, where civilians are limited to 10rds..

 

[danez71]

The video supports my position quite well, one threat took 7 rounds to stop; if shot placement had not been as good (maybe miss) or add just one more attacker...

The Glocks I mentioned are popular choices, not over the top / diminishing returns.

Its not a Glock thread, my wife carries a Beretta PX4 Compact http://www.beretta.com/en-us/px4-storm-compact/

It looks to me that the guy was starting to go down at round 4 or 5 and it was momentum carrying him forward. My point with the vid is that that you could shoot a guy running 15 times in the head and his forward momentum could still be forward momentum.

I just think you could have pick better vid to show your point. Such as a guy not running toward the shots and it taking 7 round or so for him to fall.


My 'diminishing returns' comment wasn't to critique the beloved glock. It was simply to qualify my statement that more round are better... but only to a point.

An exaggerated example is sticking a 30 round mag in a glock or any other hand gun and, Sure, more rounds are better... until you try to carry that thing. The advantages of having extra mags is obvious... until you try to stick 10 of them in your pocket.




Having said all that, now were just getting to the circular argument that some people, for their own reasons, wont conceal carry a weapon the size needed to hold 10+ of a FBI deemed satisfactory cartridge


Then....
That just turns into 'my choice is better... your choice is dumb, that is, unless you don't value your life' with some added glock pics.

 

[CDW4ME]

Really? Are you LEO or MIL?

Seems unlikely a civilian would be put in the same type of position/situation. In addition, it happened in CA, where civilians are limited to 10rds..

Unlikely that a civilian might have to defend against a threat that is hard to stop, unlikely that shot placement might be less than ideal, unlikely for a threat to be armed with a knife?

Even in an anti-gun state like CA, they apparently think 10 rounds in the magazine is reasonable (and legal) for SD.

 

[CDW4ME]

now were just getting to the circular argument that some people, for their own reasons, wont conceal carry a weapon the size needed to hold 10+ of a FBI deemed satisfactory cartridge.

People who are content to rationalize lower capacity options do not have to hi-jack my thread.

 

[NormH3]

"Main Idea: It is better to have ammo and not need it than need ammo and not have it."

Of course this is true. You could also say is it better to have two guns than one at any given time. I think what people carry and how much is an individual decision. That's why some carry multiple mags and for those that prefer a wheel gun carry speed loaders. I think it comes down to how much carry is really too much as far as comfort...etc. You used Glocks in your example, but not everyone owns a Glock for whatever reason. You say they are comfortable to carry and so on, but I'm sure that's not true for everyone. I don't own any Glocks nor have I shot one. I have a Sig P239 which is 8+1 but I do have a 10 round mag that I can carry as backup. I also have a Ruger Sp101 3" 357/38 that holds five that I'm comfortable with. My double stack semi-auto is a P226, but a bit hefty to carry around. I think your post is right up there with "what caliber should I carry"? You're going to get responses that don't agree with your position.

 

[C0untZer0]

I just tried to fit 10 rounds in my Rohrbaugh R9 magazine, and it turns out I can't

 

[C0untZer0]

The guy in the video was wearing a Carhartt shirt:

http://www.carhartt.com/category/carhartt-men/carhartt-men-shirts

 

[Plan2Live]

People who are content to rationalize lower capacity options do not have to hi-jack my thread.

Seems like someone missed his/her nap. When you open a thread your are going to get opinions that don't line up with your opinion. That's how discussion forums work, hate to be the one to break that to you.

The average civilian encounter involving a defensive firearm occurs within a distance of 3 yards, lasts 3 seconds and has 3 shots or less fired. An instructor friend of mine who is a member of ILEETRA says shots fired by LEOs during an encounter now averages six but that's LEOs carrying duty sized pistols and intentionally engaging people the rest of us would avoid.

Carrying high capacity still remains merely a preference.

 

[Plan2Live]

If a video existed of the George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin encounter existed one could post a video of that encounter and argue that one round is sufficient. A broader sampling is needed to draw any conclusive opinion.

 

[ritepath]

New York will be upset with you.

As for me and my family we carry either a Shield, LCP, 642 or G2. Only the G2 qualifies as a real gun in this thread...based on mag capacity of course.

 

[C0untZer0]

9.8 m/s/s

In other words if there had been a third officer shooting into this knife wielding maniac you would have been able to say ~10.5 were needed to stop one guy with a knife.

 

[bangswitch]

When I travel, I carry a S&W M19 with two extra magazines.

I drug my S&W M19 out of my safe, and you know, I'm damned if I can find ANYWHERE on it to insert a magazine. Per chance, do you mean 'speed loaders' ?

I'm also of the opinion that the video does little to prove it required more than one shot to bring the perp down. First, we don't know how many of those shots fired by the cop being run down by the perp actually hit him; second, at his speed, the perp could still cover 10-15 feet after receiving a fatal shot. A running man with a knife can stab you before you can clear leather if he's 20 feet or less away when you start to draw.

I'm in favor of carrying as much ammo with you as you think necessary; I'm in equal favor of being able to hit your target with each round in the magazine, and I'm in most favor of having a caliber guaranteed to stop a bus. In that regard, I'd as soon have a 1911 with 7+1 and carry two extra magazines as a G17 with 17+1.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I carry a gun that holds 6 or 7 rounds depending on the magazine. For my lifestyle, I'm comfortable with that.

I couldn't care less what anyone else carries.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

For what it's worth, one of the very few instances where a British Square was broken was in the Peninsular War, at the Battle of Garcia Hernandez when a mortally wounded horse, with a dead cavalryman in the saddle, crashed into the square.

The point? A dead horse (or man) can continue to advance, even after clinical death.

 

[CDW4ME]

Seems like someone missed his/her nap. When you open a thread your are going to get opinions that don't line up with your opinion. That's how discussion forums work, hate to be the one to break that to you.

The average civilian encounter involving a defensive firearm occurs within a distance of 3 yards, lasts 3 seconds and has 3 shots or less fired. An instructor friend of mine who is a member of ILEETRA says shots fired by LEOs during an encounter now averages six but that's LEOs carrying duty sized pistols and intentionally engaging people the rest of us would avoid.

Carrying high capacity still remains merely a preference.

No I didn't miss a nap.

I am a bit surprised that people content to rationalize carrying lower capacity options are so inclined to hi-jack my thread.

I am not concerned with averages, using rationalization based on averages would support not carrying at all.

If someone wants to carry a derringer or snub, have at it; they can rationalize their choice with averages and psychic ability.