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A truly criminal gun

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Isher, Dec 11, 2009.

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  1. Isher

    Isher Member

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    Can anyone here in this brain trust give me an example of a truly, specifically, criminal gun? I.E., a weapon intentionally built to break the prevailing law, by the criminal element. Manufacturer, type, caliber and date of manufacture would be helpful. And, no this isn't trolling. I'm sick to death of the criminalization of firearms by the popular press. Even a definition of a civilian firearm vs a military firearm vs a criminal firearm would be interesting, to say the least. Thus this piece.

    isher
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2009
  2. RS14

    RS14 Member

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    Various assassination guns, such as the soviet MSP (derringer, 7.62mm, 1983) and PSS (semi-automatic handgun, 7.62mm, 1972), have been developed. Not really what you're looking for, but they were designed to be used illegally--just not in the country they were developed in.
     
  3. SCTSQRL

    SCTSQRL Member

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    There is no more a criminal gun than there is a criminal baseball bat or a criminal slim-jim. The intentions of the user are what make anything into the engine of a criminal act, not the object itself.
     
  4. kingpin008

    kingpin008 Member

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    Bingo. Why not ask for a car designed specifically for drunk-driving? Guns are tools, period. What we do with them is under our control.
     
  5. Avenger29

    Avenger29 Member

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    I think that's the point Isher is trying to make. He's asking if there are firearms made specifically for criminal use, possibly so he can truthfully say in a debate with an anti that there are no guns made just for criminals...
     
  6. purebred

    purebred Member

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    I think that question should be anawered by the media. They seem to know all the answers
    to these types of questions.:what:
     
  7. Autolycus

    Autolycus Member

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    Zip guns are the closest I can think of. However as others have said, the gun is just an item. Can we think of a knife designed to be used to break the law?
     
  8. gunnutery

    gunnutery Member

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    Oldskoolfan beat me to it. Another point about the zipgun though is that it is illegal to make without a permit or license (granted by the federal government).
     
  9. DeathByCactus

    DeathByCactus Member

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    Me... Nothing is more lethal then putting a cactus with poison coated quills where someone is about to sit down. I am the ultimate law defying assassin.

    Seriously though...

    This, All firearms are designed to kill. Therefore anything can be made to "serve law and order," regardless of the real reason or market of creation.

    On an even more serious note...

    http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=341238

    The contents within the OP of this thread is a "truly criminal gun." According to CNN, law enforcement might hesitate to return fire when a pink and green gun is pointing at them... This would allow the gangbangers ample time to mow down the police in a hello kitty surprise sorta way. (disclaimer, the sarcasm might be hard to read here...)
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2009
  10. kingpin008

    kingpin008 Member

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    Wrong.

    There is a BIG difference between what an object is designed for, and what it is used for.

    All firearms are designed to propel small bits of metal at high speeds. We sometimes use them to kill.

    See the difference?
     
  11. chrisdelrosario14

    chrisdelrosario14 Member

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    What I think DeathByCactus is trying to say is that the PURPOSE of a gun is to kill, whether it be animal or human.
     
  12. kingpin008

    kingpin008 Member

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    I get what he's trying to say. My point is that he's incorrect.

    As stated earlier, the purpose of a gun is to propel metal at high speeds. We sometimes use those pieces of metal to kill things. But to say that the specific purpose of guns is to kill is false. If their specific purpose was to kill, we wouldn't have target pistols, would we?

    Of course, you could USE a target pistol to kill something, but it's PURPOSE is to put holes in paper.

    Hence my previous post.
     
  13. chrisdelrosario14

    chrisdelrosario14 Member

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    Ok but then you can say that if guns are tools as you said in your previous post then what would you use them for?
     
  14. kingpin008

    kingpin008 Member

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    I personally would use them for target shooting and self defense, but others may also use them to hunt. Why?
     
  15. BHP FAN

    BHP FAN Member

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    I punch holes in paper with mine.TARGET shooting. It's a sport you may have heard of? Lots of guns are made for quick draw that will never see a lethal round,most even have aluminum barrels.Most of my guns have only killed the wily soda can or target.''Guns are only made for killing''...seriously?!
     
  16. Zoogster

    Zoogster Member

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    I disagree. Zip guns are just ingenuity used to create a cheap alternative to a more expensive metal propelling device.
    To say it is perfectly legal to build your own firearm out of the extremes of either raw materials or an almost complete receiver on the market today, but then say it is illegal to do the same out of other suitable components is hypocritical.

    That would be like saying it is illegal to make a knife from a leaf spring, or an old file, or a saw blade, or all the other things people use. But also saying it is perfectly legal to make the same knife from never before used sheet metal, as well as pieces of metal sold already shaped into a knife blank.


    There is crude and unsafe designs as well as perfectly adequate ones, which use components that can withstand several times the operating pressure.
    The only real difference in determining what is a "zip gun" is cosmetic.
    If it looks like hardware components assembled into a gun (even if perfectly safe) then it is a "zip gun", but if has a nice fit and finish then it becomes a legal custom firearm.
    Custom blued smooth bore barrel that can only withstand about 20,000PSI? Attached to a nice hand carved wooden stock? Assembled into a single shot break action shotgun? Legal.
    Salvaged tubing that can withstand 100,000 PSI? Left looking like a piece of pipe, and attached to a crude looking stock? Zip gun.
    The biggest irony is some "zip guns" are actually more modular than most traditional designs. And thus would be easier to customize to suite different needs or shooters.

    So in America you can slap almost anything together you want, or build any tool from miscellaneous components. Just not a gun. A gun must be made from only gun components, even when inferior to a non-gun part. It must look like what a gun is expected to look like. :confused:
    Yeah that sounds like freedom. :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2009
  17. Boolit

    Boolit Member

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    Interesting topic, Isher. Thank you for posting it. I really enjoy threads that get into the "id" of how we view things in life. Since guns are such a major part of our lives, its always nice to understand a different perspective.
     
  18. oldman1946

    oldman1946 Member

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    Seldom

    Seldom are guns used to kill people. I like the stats that say we have over 300 million guns in the US but only have about 26,000 people killed each year.

    I also like the bumper sticker that says, "Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my gun."

    If guns were made to kill people, we would have millions killed each year.
     
  19. everallm

    everallm Member

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    The only one that comes to mind, as a firearm that was, at least initially, specifically designed by and for a criminal fraternity is the French "Apache"

    The trifecta of a handgun, knife, knuckle duster.

    971105.jpg

    Yes, it COULD be used for non criminals but the original build and design ethic......mmmmmm
     
  20. earlthegoat2

    earlthegoat2 Member

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    If something is said to be used for self defense, could that same something be said to be designed to kill?

    Maybe, maybe not. By nature of something (say, a gun) being used for defense means that it can cause harm. You dont have to fire a gun to defend yourself which makes me believe what comes from the gun to be a very horrific thing indeed to be able to stop an aggressor without firing a shot. My point it that at the very least guns are designed to maim and if the person behind it has the resolve they can turn that tool for maiming into a tool for killing even in defense of ones life.
     
  21. Rmfcasey

    Rmfcasey Member

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    I love that revolver with the bayonet. Where can I get one for my 1911.
    Rmfcasey
     
  22. everallm

    everallm Member

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    Trade it in for a CZ SP-01 and get the bayonet.....:evil:

    img-1751.jpg

    [​IMG]
     
  23. oldfool

    oldfool Member

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    "criminal" gun, has a lot in common with "assault" weapon
    assault baseball bat
    assault brick
    assault sharp-pointy-stick

    (peevish old guy here, yep)
     
  24. xsquidgator

    xsquidgator Member

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    ^ that. Guns are not designed ONLY for killing. As everyone here (and the NRA) has pointed out, guns have many legitimate uses, including paper-punching sports, hunting, collecting, and of course self-defense.

    Now, electric chairs are designed to kill someone and ONLY to kill someone. Same thing for gas chambers, and the gallows. Those are deadly as guns can be, but have none of the other useful purposes (such as self-defense) of a gun.
     
  25. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    Really? She look like she's gonna kill anything besides paper?

    Give me a break.....

    Olympics+Day+6+Shooting+2X_FO6VmmR8l.jpg
     
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