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Absolutely No Live Ammunition In The Training Area.

Discussion in 'Strategies, Tactics and Training' started by Trunk Monkey, Feb 9, 2018.

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  1. JeffG

    JeffG Member

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    Presenting a problem coupled with a solution was a good approach. Assigning someone with ultimate authority, and a safety officer is a good idea. Safety officer would be given the authority make sure safety rules like no live ammunition were cordially but firmly enforced. The safety officer would also to bar armed visitors to the training area, and invite them into the training area, without ammo. Another responsibility of the safety officer is to make sure everyone reloads, and goes "street live" properly and safely, when leaving the training area. Encouraging words such as, "Good job" and "that's the way", go a long way in assuring voluntary safety compliance.
     
  2. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey Member

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    They don't advertise them on TV. I understand your point but this isn't broadcast we don't show up in uniforms all your average person is going to see is people showing up for church on an off night
     
  3. GBExpat

    GBExpat Member

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    Oh ... OK, then. Never mind. :)
     
  4. herrwalther

    herrwalther Member

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    So if your group has a rule about no live ammo in a training area, and it is being brought in. That is smuggling to a degree. But splitting hairs is for another time. I would certainly feel unsafe around amateurs who "unload" firearms under their own authority. My suggestion still holds merit, check everyone as they come in. Your group could go the extra mile and get chamber flags of some type to show weapons are empty after they are checked.
     
  5. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey Member

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    Chamber flags wouldn't work for dry fire but in general I agree with you. The trainer requires 2 people (one of them him) to verify that each gun is unloaded. My problem is that there shouldn't be ANY ammunition in that room period. I don't care if it's in a tape sealed box locked in a safe. Not. One. Round.
     
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  6. milemaker13

    milemaker13 Member

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    Sounds like a simple demarcation issue. The table should be outside the room, not inside. Not a big deal, a ten foot difference maybe.... But it's that imaginary line, in this case the doorway, that cannot be crossed. Period.
     
  7. herrwalther

    herrwalther Member

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    Why not? There are chamber plugs and flags that allow you to still practice dry firing, while showing a *clear* weapon at all times. This was one I found rather quickly.

    https://bloksafety.com/p/barrelblok

    Personally I like using a chamber flag or something like it to make a real firearm safe compared to using a blue or fake training gun. In classes I taught, the more hands on experience I could get a student with a firearm the more confident they became handling one.
     
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  8. shoobe01

    shoobe01 Member

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    Having seen the training schedule (page 2) I wouldn't do this in a classroom. Classrooms are for talking, listening, writing.

    I would—and do—go to the range for manipulation. Yes, that can be a pain, but it reinforces a lot of the Safety Rules that we don't whip out guns to handle them in random rooms. See sand bucket discussions. Loading a gun at home is in the basement, pointed into a corner, so it isn't going anywhere.

    Airsoft, as brought up above, is another good idea if you need to have these sessions regularly. Since many of them work broadly correctly (magazine, slide...) you could do most of the exercises off those. In a range, still, but an "airsoft range" (establish one somewhere) and wearing eyepro.
     
  9. redneck

    redneck Member

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    Might be worth buying a screw box/organizer like this:
    https://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-16-1-2-in-8-Bin-Deep-Pro-Organizer-Black-218401/203329198

    Put it outside the door and each person gets assigned a bin to put ammo in. I know some folks wouldn't like it but I would make them unload magazines. With so many guns having magazine safeties these days I wouldn't be happy with loaded mags laying around to get mixed up. All live ammo goes in the box, and the box stays closed outside of the room until training is over.
     
  10. Old Dog

    Old Dog Member

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    Mildly interesting article about church security in the latest issue of SWAT magazine.
     
  11. Hasaf

    Hasaf Member

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    Just to ask, is this the article you are speaking of? If so, he seems to be saying there will be some follow on articles.
     
  12. old lady new shooter

    old lady new shooter Member

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    I don't see a reason to unload magazines as long as the magazines aren't brought into the training room. If participants will need extra magazines for the training, for example to become faster at changing out the magazine, make them bring empty ones and those have to be checked before entering the room at the same time the guns are checked.
     
  13. Old Dog

    Old Dog Member

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    No; the article is by Steve Moses in the March 2018 print edition. It's titled, "The God Squad - Protecting Houses of Worship." Worth the read.
     
  14. strambo

    strambo Member

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    I agree with the suggestion to just make a safe unloading area outside the training room.

    "Anything remotely resembling FoF they use a blue gun for."

    ...still in a room full of live weapons and ammo...:uhoh:
     
  15. Navy_Chief

    Navy_Chief Member

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    Having spent a few years working with SF guys, any self proclaimed SF guy who has no regard for safety rules during training would be an immediate red flag. Of all of the groups I have worked with SF was absolutely without a doubt the most safety conscious, rules were absolute and violations were taken very seriously there were no exceptions.
     
  16. jmorris

    jmorris Member

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    I don’t know exactly, maybe a “Absolutely No Ammunition” sign on the door of the church reminding folks and another on the Door to the room they are going to enter.

    Better yet require all firearms entering to have a supplied chamber flag installed.
    https://www.creedmoorsports.com/pro...MI1rSbnau42QIVheDICh0TwgP3EAkYByABEgJc0vD_BwE

    In shooting sports a triple redundant safety protocol exists. How it works is the person with the firearm is asked to unload and show clear.

    Step 1 is they unload the firearm, look into the chamber themselves to make sure it’s unloaded.

    Step 2 they show the RO that the chamber is unloaded.

    Step 3 is they lower the slide and pull the trigger, while pointing the firearm at the berm.

    Over the years, I can’t remember how many times I have seen an “unloaded” firearm go off on step 3. Enough times it’s completely ridiculous but validates the step each and every time.

    A chamber flag wouldn’t be able to be installed if a round remained in the chamber.
     
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  17. Old Shooter

    Old Shooter Member

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    Your Special Forces Member should at least get a medal or pretty ribbon for being the best "bad example" of the year.
     
  18. George Dickel

    George Dickel Member

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    That has been my experience also. You can be assigned to an SF unit but not be SF qualified. Ash and trash work(mechanics, cooks, supply personnel, clerks, truck drivers, etc), are done by non SF support personnel. Same as a soldier can be assigned to the 82nd or 101st ABN and not be airborne qualified. There are far too many people claiming to be SEALS, Marine force recon, and whatever but never served any time in the military. If this guy was truly SF with his attitude towards safety, I can bet he was really appreciated by his fellow SF members.
     
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  19. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey Member

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    I know the guy. He is SF qualified and assigned to 10th group. I respect his knowledge of Scripture and his adherence to Christian principles and doctrine. It's just this one area that I totally disagree with him on.
     
  20. justice06rr

    justice06rr Member

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    Enforce the no-ammo rule.

    You can simply have the instructors check each person as they enter to ensure that their weapon is unloaded.
     
  21. Navy_Chief

    Navy_Chief Member

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    Being assigned to the group does not equal being SF, I was assigned to Naval Special Warfare Group One along with Seal Teams 1 and 5 but was not a Seal....
     
  22. Trunk Monkey

    Trunk Monkey Member

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    How many different ways do I have to say this? The guy is SF qualified.
     
  23. Robert

    Robert Moderator Staff Member

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    Asked, answered, and drifting.
     
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