Accidental Discharge .44 Magnum

[Panzerschwein]

Guys I just spotted this newly posted video:



Apparently, an RSO or other "training" person at an indoor range was attempting to demonstrate the firing of a .44 magnum revolver. He cocks the hammer back demonstrating the SA mode of the revolver, and with the gun pointed up at a roughly 45 degree angle, manages to forget the weapon is loaded and discharges a round into the ceiling. Don't worry though! He"meant" to do that.

Aside from the resulting ND, the way he was handling and maneuvering around the loaded gun was not very professional. I don't have any details about where this happened or what the "trainers" name is, but this is a lesson to all of us out there that you might want to do some preliminary research on the instructor or range personnel in your area before taking a course of any kind.

I personally believe that this man was complacent in his handling of a loaded firearm, and he reeks of overconfidence and arrogance. Just thought I would share this with everyone!

 

[BigBore44]

He needs MUCH less coffee and a refresher course on handling firearms. The term "Cracker Jack Box" comes to mind on how he got certified to be a RSO. I cringed pretty much the whole time I watched that video.

 

[RPRNY]

Not "accidental". Negligent and grossly incompetent. Especially in an instructor. Thank heavens he maintained some kind of muzzle discipline.

 

[JeffG]

*Facepalm. The guy seems like a goof. His students don't know enough to walk out of the class and demand a refund. You could see what happened coming. I got the "oh no" feeling when he turned toward in the direction of his student with a loaded firearm.

 

[nipprdog]

Happened a few years ago at this range;

http://www.lasvegasgunrange.net/

Guy was not an "instructor", just a range employee.

 

[Torian]

Not "accidental". Negligent and grossly incompetent. Especially in an instructor. Thank heavens he maintained some kind of muzzle discipline.

Indeed.

 

[Sig Bill]

What an idiot.

And with a loaded gun. Instructors use the blue gun.

 

[Tirod]

The gun was never pointed in any direction that would endanger a student. And his reaction indicated he was aware it could happen.

Nonetheless that was not the time or place to demonstrate how to shoot the ceiling. I can't think of one, either, so I have to assume he was the only one professional enough to use that gun. ; )

 

[PapaG]

I prefer the term, "negligent discharge".

 

[red rick]

I hope that gun range suspends him from instructing for about a month and makes him take some training classes before he can teach again .

 

[entropy]

I hope that gun range suspends him from instructing for about a month and makes him take some training classes before he can teach again .

I'd hope he'd voluntarily quit instructing, but like Cooldill said, he was complacent in his hubris. The guy in the blue shirt should have verbally admonished him on the spot, then walked out. But, from the position he was holding his imaginary .44, it's obvious he was a total novice.
This instructor deserved a Glock leg even more than the one that got one.......

 

[buck460XVR]

Stupid is what stupid does. Nuff said.

 

[entropy]

He could have at least made that a teaching moment and asked the students which of the Four Rules he violated. (Answer is more than one.... )

 

[243winxb]

Indoor 44 mags, not for me. Outdoors only.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

Yep, definitely a ND, not an AD. But it could have been worse.
At least he practiced decent muzzle discipline.

You see these videos of experienced people who have NDs pop up from time to time.
Goes to show that no matter how much experience we have, we can't get complacent and relax on safety measures.

 

[jmr40]

I prefer the term, "negligent discharge".

Any unintentional discharge is an accidental discharge. The accident CAN be because of negligent behavior, or not. I understand the desire to hold shooters accountable, but believe we are over using the "negligent discharge" phrase. This incident would never be considered negligent from a legal perspective. While he clearly discharged the gun before he meant to, the gun was never pointed where it could injure others. By overusing the term, we are changing the meaning. This is something only gun guys do, even the anti-gunners never use the term ND, at least not yet. If we continue to use the term ND for AD we are giving our enemies another tactic to attack us with, every firearm discharge will be considered negligent. They have already tried to prove the very act of owning a gun is an act of negligence.

The same standards for negligence for firearms and vehicles should, and does apply from a legal standard.

Lets say I misjudge the distance and speed of an oncoming driver and make a left turn in front of the other car. The other driver is able to stop in time and there is no collision and no injuries. This is comparable to the incident in the video. No one is charged with negligence, if observed by a traffic cop I may get a small fine but mostly I'm embarrassed and have learned a valuable lesson.

If I make the turn and a collision happens that does result in injuries and vehicle damage there is still probably no negligence on my part. As long as no other factors come into play it is just an honest mistake. I'm still responsible for the damage and the injuries, but no one is going to accuse me of negligence.

On the other hand, if I've been drinking, texting, under the influence of drugs, or driving in an unsafe and erratic manner prior to the accident I'm certainly guilty of negligence.

Looking at a 26 second video clip tells me nothing about the guys past history. He may be a great instructor who screwed up. Or he could be an idiot who shouldn't be around guns. But there isn't enough in the 26 second clip to confirm negligence.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Wow, that was horrible to watch. I love how the gun hits him in the face. Waving a loaded firearm around behind the firing line is totally unprofessional.

Sorry, but I also completely disagree with what he was telling the students. Yes, push with your right hand, and pull with your left. But you don't "lock your elbows" when shooting a big bore magnum revolver. That's the quickest way to let a gun beat you up and turn what should be a fun shooting session into a lousy time that leaves you rattled. You hold your elbows and wrists ridged, but they need to flex a bit so your upper body absorbs the recoil, not just your hands and wrists.

Here's a video of JM shooting a 500 mag as fast as he can. He isn't "locked up". There is flex in his elbows and wrists. No, not much because the guy is clearly a robot. I also have no idea what that grip is all about. Apparently when you have yeti sized hands and a metal skeleton allowing a vice like grip, this particular technique is useable.

 

[entropy]

Lets say I misjudge the distance and speed of an oncoming driver and make a left turn in front of the other car. The other driver is able to stop in time and there is no collision and no injuries. This is comparable to the incident in the video. No one is charged with negligence, if observed by a traffic cop I may get a small fine but mostly I'm embarrassed and have learned a valuable lesson.

I started to make a left turn, saw the kid coming the other way was coming too fast, turned back into my lane, the kid hit another vehicle, the cops charged me with going over the yellow line and the guy whom the kid hit is suing me. I like the cops in your imagination better.

ND or AD, the guy needs some re-education, and shouldn't teach. I've had AD's, but wasn't breaking any of the Four Rules when they happened.

I suspect it's the only way Jerry knows how to shoot a pistol. Never seen him shoot any other way.

 

[Alec]

Love the little bounces he does at the end. Nothing says "I meant to do that" like a nervous fidget.

 

[Robert101]

Cooldill,
Thanks for posting as this is a good reminder that it only takes a moment for something bad to have serious consequences. This video is important to me as I just lent my 44 Mag to my daughter for some desert shooting with friends. I told her to be certain to keep in mind that the trigger is extremely light and can lead to an accidental discharge. She has shot it many times, but a 1 1/2 lbs. trigger can get your attention even with a light finger. Bottom line is that I always have to be mindful of the potential of an accident as bad habits lead to tragedy. Keep it pointed down range at a safe target area, and don't play around with a loaded gun.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

Any unintentional discharge is an accidental discharge. The accident CAN be because of negligent behavior, or not. I understand the desire to hold shooters accountable, but believe we are over using the "negligent discharge" phrase. This incident would never be considered negligent from a legal perspective. While he clearly discharged the gun before he meant to, the gun was never pointed where it could injure others. By overusing the term, we are changing the meaning. This is something only gun guys do, even the anti-gunners never use the term ND, at least not yet. If we continue to use the term ND for AD we are giving our enemies another tactic to attack us with, every firearm discharge will be considered negligent. They have already tried to prove the very act of owning a gun is an act of negligence.

The same standards for negligence for firearms and vehicles should, and does apply from a legal standard.

Lets say I misjudge the distance and speed of an oncoming driver and make a left turn in front of the other car. The other driver is able to stop in time and there is no collision and no injuries. This is comparable to the incident in the video. No one is charged with negligence, if observed by a traffic cop I may get a small fine but mostly I'm embarrassed and have learned a valuable lesson.

If I make the turn and a collision happens that does result in injuries and vehicle damage there is still probably no negligence on my part. As long as no other factors come into play it is just an honest mistake. I'm still responsible for the damage and the injuries, but no one is going to accuse me of negligence.

On the other hand, if I've been drinking, texting, under the influence of drugs, or driving in an unsafe and erratic manner prior to the accident I'm certainly guilty of negligence.

Looking at a 26 second video clip tells me nothing about the guys past history. He may be a great instructor who screwed up. Or he could be an idiot who shouldn't be around guns. But there isn't enough in the 26 second clip to confirm negligence.

I understand the first part of your post and agree with it.
All unintentional discharges are accidental and may or may not be negligent.
The distinction I have always came to as far as which is which is what is to blame for the shot being fired. If it is a malfunction in the firearm, such as the Remington 700 safety debacle, then it is simply an AD. If it is a brain fart on behalf of the person handling the firearm, such as your finger being on the trigger when it shouldn't be, then it is a ND.

As far as the definition of negligence, we are not in a court of law here. This man is not being charged with a crime or having a tort action brought against him. The legal definition of something is often quite different than the standard every day definition.
The common definition is failing to take proper care in doing something. That is obviously the case here. We can see that, even in the 26 second video.
Would anyone have a reason to sue him for negligence? No, because no one incurred any loss as a result.

I agree with you also that a short video doesn't tell us anything about the man personally. People screw up sometimes. Hopefully he learns from it and doesn't repeat the mistake.

 

[thedeal]

This "instructor" rightfully deserves some derision. He was careless. I was more focused on the bozo who was mimicking him- he looked like some jackass who thought it would be "fun" to go to the range and clown around. Plus, whoever was giggling like a moron off camera should also stay away from firearms.

 

[Master Blaster]

He violated two out of three of the safety rules, he was negligent.
1. keep the gun pointed in a safe direction. The ceiling is not a safe direction.
2. keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot. Violated that one too.
3. Keep the gun unloaded until you are ready to use it. OK, he was ready, maybe, but the gun fired before he was ready.....

It was a negligent discharge, he was negligent. from a legal standpoint also, he damaged the roof of the range he was in, he possibly hit someone or something a mile away when the bullet came down to earth in a ballistic arc. He knew better but failed to take the simple steps to prevent the negligent discharge.
What he did would get him thrown out of any of the clubs and ranges where I have shot.
He should not be teaching, his muzzle control and grasp of basic safety is unacceptable for a student let alone an instructor.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Ok so here's one for you guys and I'm interested in what you think.

I have a Wilson/Beretta 92 Brig Tac with a Wilson tuned trigger. It's super smooth and light. Fantastic is the word. Twice now, while I was shooting that gun fast I have taken a shot and before I had my sight picture clear and well aimed, I was surprised by the trigger. I had controlled the trigger through both first shots, and as I was realigning my sights for my next shots, I released the trigger to the point of reset, but accidentally put just enough pressure on the trigger that I fired again before my shot was perfectly aligned.

It essentially looked like an extremely poorly executed double tap in both circumstances, however, I did not intend to fire the second shot at that point at all. So while the gun was pointed at the target, and in a safe direction, I "accidentally" fired again. I would consider that to be an accidental discharge. I did not violate any safety rules, as I was ready to shoot, but it was just that I did not have a clear sight picture yet.

Is there anyone who would want to argue that I was negligent when I discharged the second shot, as it was unintentional and I was not properly aimed? I'm asking, not saying anyone who feels I was negligent is wrong.

I have learned from it. Slow down, and know the trigger on your gun well before you start trying to shoot a gun fast. I also question if I should carry that gun at all. The trigger is lighter and smoother than any of my other guns. I have been working on speed for the past year and a half, so I try to run the trigger to reset, but I got a little out of line with this one.

 

[RPRNY]

Any unintentional discharge is an accidental discharge. The accident CAN be because of negligent behavior, or not. I understand the desire to hold shooters accountable, but believe we are over using the "negligent discharge" phrase. This incident would never be considered negligent from a legal perspective. While he clearly discharged the gun before he meant to, the gun was never pointed where it could injure others. By overusing the term, we are changing the meaning. This is something only gun guys do, even the anti-gunners never use the term ND, at least not yet. If we continue to use the term ND for AD we are giving our enemies another tactic to attack us with, every firearm discharge will be considered negligent. They have already tried to prove the very act of owning a gun is an act of negligence.

The same standards for negligence for firearms and vehicles should, and does apply from a legal standard.

Lets say I misjudge the distance and speed of an oncoming driver and make a left turn in front of the other car. The other driver is able to stop in time and there is no collision and no injuries. This is comparable to the incident in the video. No one is charged with negligence, if observed by a traffic cop I may get a small fine but mostly I'm embarrassed and have learned a valuable lesson.

If I make the turn and a collision happens that does result in injuries and vehicle damage there is still probably no negligence on my part. As long as no other factors come into play it is just an honest mistake. I'm still responsible for the damage and the injuries, but no one is going to accuse me of negligence.

On the other hand, if I've been drinking, texting, under the influence of drugs, or driving in an unsafe and erratic manner prior to the accident I'm certainly guilty of negligence.

Looking at a 26 second video clip tells me nothing about the guys past history. He may be a great instructor who screwed up. Or he could be an idiot who shouldn't be around guns. But there isn't enough in the 26 second clip to confirm negligence.

It wasn't an accident. It didn't fall off a table. It didn't get knocked out of his hand and discharged. He was negligent and the firearm discharged in an unsafe manner. That nobody was apparently injured does not change that. Merriam-Webster: Negligence

"Failure to exercise the care that a reasonably prudent person would exercise in like circumstances"

He was negligent and that was a negligent discharge.