Accidental Discharge .44 Magnum

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In regard to the NRA's seemingly paradoxical rule for safe gun handling in the context of firearms left loaded for defensive use - while I cannot speak as an official representative of the NRA, I CAN speak to the training we receive as instructors developed by the NRA Training Division.

The 3rd rule, while it is easy to inconsiderately disparage with a complete non-sequitur as you have, does NOT preclude long-term loaded firearms for defensive purpose. For defensive purpose, the firearm is at a "ready for use" state, as such, it should be loaded. Your carry pistol needs to be "ready for use" as soon as it is mounted in the morning and remain ready for use, as such, it should be loaded. Your argument is the most common I have heard against the NRA 3 Rules over the years, and it's no more of a valid argument today than it was almost 20yrs ago the first time I heard it.

The 3rd rule does, however, preclude the laziness of the common, "I have a shotgun by the bed, loaded 24/7." As in this situation, when the owner leaves the home, if anyone else were to enter, say your teenage kid with a few friends, they wouldn't find a loaded, unsecured, and unsupervised firearm. If the teenager is representative and approved (and hopefully trained) to use the shotgun in defense, then the "ready condition" transitions to the teen as a responsible party controlling that weapon while you're gone (and by control, at minimum requiring it is not interfered with and remains at ready state without potential for violation of the other two rules). If you keep a nightstand gun which stays in the room, meaning it does not need be "ready for use," then it should either get secured during the day.

There's discussion to be had about concealed carry pieces removed and left in vehicles. One could argue the user may need it to be "ready for use" immediately upon return, as in the event of a surprise attack when re-entering the vehicle, or an active shooter event where a person might retreat from a threat to retrieve the firearm to engage to prevent further loss of life. In the interim, as the owner is not present, the firearm isn't necessarily in control and therefor the firearm isn't necessarily ready for use - grey area here. But again, the 3rd rule doesn't preclude having a loaded firearm waiting in your vehicle.

Same argument is often made for hunting, guys will rebuff, "what, am I supposed to walk with an empty shotgun then ask the birds to wait while I load up?" No, when hunting, the firearm needs to be "ready for use" at almost any time of the walk, and therefore should be loaded.

As a formerly certified risk assessor, there are multiple control paradigms which can mitigate firearms risks. Cooper's 4 Rules and the NRA's 3 Rules both satisfy as safe as general guidelines - but neither are sufficiently comprehensive to represent anything more than a backbone. 3 or 4 Rules do not a safety program make...

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So Mr. Varminterror, I guess your opinion is so important as to render my opinion invalid. How very self-important of you. Then you say I just might be lazy. Very nice of you. Since this is the High Road I will refrain from commenting further but I will say you should not tell anyone their opinion is not valid while pumping up your own self-worth. You have no idea who I am, my level of training or the situation in my home.
 
So Mr. Varminterror, I guess your opinion is so important as to render my opinion invalid. How very self-important of you. Then you say I just might be lazy. Very nice of you. Since this is the High Road I will refrain from commenting further but I will say you should not tell anyone their opinion is not valid while pumping up your own self-worth. You have no idea who I am, my level of training or the situation in my home.

ArchangelCD, my "opinion" in my post was to convey how the NRA trains instructors to educate context and application of their 3 fundamental rules of safe firearms handling.

Your opinion as stated here in this thread, was that rule #3 precluded logical employment of a loaded firearm for carry - which it does not. I simply intended to explicate the non-paradoxical logic behind that fact. Your interpretation is common, as I noted in my post - SO MANY FOLKS read "Always keep the firearm unloaded until ready for use" as a preclusion for readily loaded carry. I can't relate as to why that is a common misconception, but it is a question I have faced in almost, if not every one of my classes over the years.

My comment to laziness of some firearm owners leaving an unattended firearm in their homes when they are not was not directed at you, nor do I feel it was written in a way to imply it was. If you DO leave a loaded firearm, unsecured in your home with traffic of unauthorized persons in your absence, then the shoe fits, otherwise, the comment was not towards you, so your emotional outburst is unwarranted.
 
There is one argument against the three rules I enjoy the most from students who know more about firearms than I do when they walk into an NRA class.
Rule number 1 keep the gun pointed in a safe direction rule is completely wrong as you cannot use the firearm in a self defense situation if you follow that rule......
Whenever I hear that argument from a student I know they are going to be my least safe student who I have to watch carefully when they pick up a firearm in the live fire part of the course.

Enuff said
 
Rule number 1 keep the gun pointed in a safe direction rule is completely wrong as you cannot use the firearm in a self defense situation if you follow that rule....
Just tell those students that if your pointing your gun in the direction of someone who means you harm, it technically IS a safe direction cause your keeping yourself safe ;)
As far as the video, I'm more shocked at the giggling and fact that those guys stuck around than the actual discharge.
 
I should have probably stated that I don't teach Tier one operators-I teach 4-H kids. I use TAB-K, the method used by the WI DNR, because that is what 4-H in WI requires. I personally prefer Cooper's 4 rules, it's what I was raised on, but TAB-K works, too. I suspect the NRA 3 rules are written for adults-and they make sense for adults, ongoing arguments notwithstanding. I just had never heard of them before.
T-Treat every firearm as if it was loaded.
A- Always point the muzzle in a safe direction.
B- Be sure of your target and what's beyond.
K-Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to fire. This is the one I must constantly reiterate to the kids, but they do learn. The 'instructor' in the OP's video has not, nor always point your muzzle in a safe direction.....:uhoh:
He was lucky-that time.
 
That anyone can call this anything less than gross negligence is unthinkable. An instructor should be painfully aware of his/her gun handling at all times - period. I don't think he has any good excuses to offer. JMHO.
 
I remember 2 Muzzleloading instructors who were giving presentations in two different locations...now here in NJ a muzzleloading long gun is considered safe as long as it is not primed with powder or cap so many hunters just case their guns to hunt another day without firing the charge.....So, one fella with a flinter was demonstrating the gun at a Masonic lodge and shot the chandillier off the ceiling, thank god he was at least aiming high and the other fella, same situation fired a live round at a state sponsored demo at another location......this stuff happens !!!!
 
The quality of firearms* instruction varies widely.

* You can replace "firearms" with just about any other word and the statement remains true.
 
Negligent..... should have kept his finger off the trigger until he was ready to fire the gun. Stuff happens. Glad nobody was hurt.
 
I went to a new indoor range close to me today for the first time with a friend . The RO asked us if we had been there before and preceded with how to operated the target . He also stated that there had been 3 ND there in the last week and instructed us to keep our finger off of the trigger until we were ready to shoot . They had 2 RO's in there and I think there were only 8 lanes in that room .
 
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Actually he fired it into the top of the enclosure surrounding his firing position. This looks similar to the set up at a local commercial range. The position surround ( not sure what else to call it) there is made of heavy gauge steel. So It would have been possible for the bullet to ricochet. Not a safe situation to say the least. Fortunately no one around him was hit or injured.
 
I was always taught that an accidental discharge meant you were on target but too heavy on the trigger and fired prematurely.

A negligent discharge typically indicates a finger on the trigger and not on target.

I'll take an ACCIDENTAL discharge anyday over a NEGLIGENT discharge.

That person is NOT an Instructor!!
 
This to me looks like another wise guy who has not put the time in to be taken seriously in the first place. He is careless, too aggresive, and has poor technique "if any". He needs instruction. Another 90 day wonder.
 
He makes a better Rick Moranis impersonator than firearm instructor. I wouldn't want him or the .44 magnum going off next to my ear.
 
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