Accidental discharge

[ExAgoradzo]

Talking to a buddy who thinks that 'accidental discharges', by that I mean the operator not doing something stupid, but a true defect in the gun or the like happens more often than I do.
Tell me your story of 'true' AD's and let us as a group decide how often it happens.

Thanks.

 

[Tallinar]

I've never experienced or witnessed an "accidental" discharge that could be attributed to the malfunction of a weapon. All revolved around failure to operate the given weapon correctly.

 

[kb58]

I witnessed one earlier in life. My brother, in the adjoining bedroom, was cleaning his pistol one day and "kapow!" Left one in the chamber he did. We both learned something that day, fortunately at only his desk's expense, and which could have turned out Much different.

 

[rcmodel]

Other then cook-offs in house fires, I have not seen any in over 50 years of guns, gunsmithing, etc.

When it comes right down to it, guns do not shoot all by themselves unless something breaks or is badly out of adjustment.
Like dropping a loaded SAA on the hammer spur and breaking the trigger tip clear off.
Or somebody screwed with trigger adjustments that didn't know what they were doing.
And both those instances could also be viewed as ND's not AD's.

I have read of true AD's with SKS & MAK's that have floating firing pins, and came over in a boat packed full of Cosmoline.

But I view that as a ND too, because it is the owners responsibly to clean the packing grease out before using them.

was cleaning his pistol one day and "kapow!"

That was not an AD, it was an ND.

rc

 

[Sky]

Have seen a few slam fires by different people. Luckily for me they were mostly a long time ago which educated me to consider, darn guns are/can be dangerous, so muzzle control and where the thing is pointing is important at all times but especially when a bolt/slide is closed.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

I see accidental as the gun's fault such as a worn sear finally giving way or something. Negligence is through stupidity. If a Remington 700 needed cleaning because of a stuck trigger but you didn't know that and neither did your buddy when he handed it to you at the range to shoot and it fired when you chambered a round. Is that negligent or accidental?

 

[SwissArmyDad]

SKS slamfire. firing pin gets gunked up, stuck forward and tags the primer when the bolt is released.

Can be effectively cured with aftermarket spring-loaded firing pin from an outfit called "Murray's", I think

 

[Sky]

SKS slamfire. firing pin gets gunked up, stuck forward and tags the primer when the bolt is released.

Can be effectively cured with aftermarket spring-loaded firing pin from an outfit called "Murray's", I think

Or cleaning the thing ever now and then!

 

[Tallinar]

I have read of true AD's with SKS & MAK's that have floating firing pins, and came over in a boat packed full of Cosmoline.

But I view that as a ND too, because it is the owners responsibly to clean the packing grease out before using them.

+1

Making sure your guns are clean enough to function properly is essential.

 

[El Mariachi]

So I learned something today, Kidz----'slam fire.' 'Cuz I was wondering the first time I shot my Husqy what would/could happen if I closed the bolt with the firing pin sticking out. Now I know.

Btw, is that a kinda rare occurance? Or a super rare occurance?....

 

[MtnCreek]

by that I mean the operator not doing something stupid, but a true defect in the gun or the like happens more often than I do.

I monkeyed with a trigger on a savage 110 several years ago. Everything worked great for years, a little over 1.5 lbs. I was at a shooting range, after shooting for about an hour, I closed the bolt on a live round and... Boom! Shooting at 100yds and I had it shouldered, so I’m pretty sure it went in the berm. I spent a ton of time afterwards and eventually got it to duplicate (unloaded this time).
Not a true defect (because it was fine the way the factory made it) and it was caused by the operator doing something stupid.

 

[rskent]

I guess I’m running 50/50 on accidental discharges

I had a slam fire with an AR. That was a surprise. Every time I drop the bolt now, I make sure my barrel is pointed in a safe direction.

I also have a pocket 32 without an extractor. I was done shooting. I pulled the slide back to make sure it was empty. OK point it down
range, pull the trigger. OOPs. I check much more carefully now.

I don’t think it matters very much if it is accidental or negligent, there is still a bullet flying around.

Keep those muzzles pointed in a safe direction.

Steve

 

[HarcyPervin]

Had an M1 Carbine issue as a kid. Grandpa's gun didn't see a ton of time after my dad and uncle grew up, although it was very well cleaned. I don't recall what the issue was as I was probably only 8 or 9 years old but what I remember is:

Lined up the shot, took the safety off, pulled the trigger....click. I looked up from the gun (with it still pointed in a safe direction) to look over at Grandpa and as he reached to open the bolt, it fired, twice. This far removed from the event, I cannot recall anything that would have caused this, Grandpa made sure that we were always very careful with his guns. He told me a couple years later that a gunsmith had to replace a couple parts after that, but now the gun works flawlessly. It wouldn't surprise me if over 10,000 rounds had been put through that gun as it was the one my Dad and Uncle shot as kids too.

I don't think this is purely an AD, because I'm sure grandpa could have done something to maintain the gun's inner workings better, but it sure is close. All I can say is that I'm glad I listened, because I watched both rounds hit the sand berm

 

[jmr40]

I own an older Remington 700 that will drop the firing pin when the safety is moved to the off position at odd times. Has happened several times over the years, never when the gun was loaded. I had heard about Remingtons occasionally doing this as far back as the 70's shortly after buying the gun, but have never seen it acually happen except to my gun. After it did it once that gun was retired.

My definition of AD and ND may be a bit different from some, but here goes.

If you are making an effort to be safe, and for some reason you still manage to do something to cause the gun to fire I consider that an AD. Having a brain fart and forgetting the gun is loaded is still an AD in my opinion as long as other safety rules were followed and the gun was not pointed at another when it fired. It all depends on the situation Still, almost all AD's could be prevented.

If you are doing something that you know to be dangerous, or should know is dangerous and cause the gun to fire that is a ND. Using guns and alcohol or drugs at the same time.

Pointing a gun at someone and firing, even if you think it is unloaded, should be a criminal act. From time to time you read or hear about LEO shooting another officer during training exercises with a gun they thought was unloaded. That differs from the example above about having a brain fart. In this case they knew they were about to engage in a potenially dangerous exercise and should have left no doubt about whether the gun was loaded.

If I am making an effort to be safe, still manage to drop my gun and it discharges it is an AD. Drop the same gun because I'm under the influence and it is ND.

If you do something that "could" result in charges being fired it is ND. If a District Attorney would have no legal grounds to charge you with a crime it, would be considered an AD.

 

[mgmorden]

Had a Mauser sporter out at the range setting the scope. Went to take a shot and no bang - noticed that the safety was on. Reached up, flipped off safety, and immediate BANG. No finger on the trigger. Once I noticed this issue I was able to reproduce the behavior on demand. If you pulled the trigger with the safety on, you were then guaranteed a bang when the safety was flipped back off.

I had the gun repaired and it works fine now.

I wasn't holding the gun, but I've also seen my father's Remington 870 slamfire once. Only did it the one time, and I'm guessing some dirt/grime just caused the firing pin to stick, but his finger wasn't on the trigger. He was actually at a "turkey shoot" - dropped the round into the chamber, and as soon as he closed the action it set off.

In both cases the guns were pointed in a safe direction.

 

[ZCORR Jay]

I've never seen a AD/ND but a buddy of mine over in Afghanistan sent me a video of a round cooking off.

 

[sixgunner455]

jmr40 - you could put that rifle back in service if you'd change out the trigger and safety for new parts.

 

[Shadow 7D]

Even when the equipment malfunctioned there usually was, at some point, an operator error.

I've seen one malfunction, it was in the military, pilot said the weapons breaker was popped per SOP, armor said that it was the pilots fault, the TI on the gun afterwards said worn parts, M3 was locked open, belt was broken per SOP at the tray, question if it caught at 3/4 cock and slam fired/ worn sear... but it was the CO's bird.

BUT since everybody observed safe practices, other than a few brown streaks and some hearing loss, everybody walked away.

The usual 'malfunction' was on the heavy weapons range, where both the M2 and Mk. 19 were in use. The Browning requires the action to be charged twice to chamber the first round, the Mk. 19 fires from the open bolt, so on the second cycling the gunner launches one down range.

 

[bergmen]

So I learned something today, Kidz----'slam fire.' 'Cuz I was wondering the first time I shot my Husqy what would/could happen if I closed the bolt with the firing pin sticking out. Now I know.

Btw, is that a kinda rare occurance? Or a super rare occurance?....

On some guns (SKS for instance) it can go full auto until it runs dry. This happened once several years ago at a range in the Bay Area killing the owner.

Version I heard was new SKS layed on a table pointing down range. Owner loaded magazine and dropped the bolt while it was still on the table. Gun went full auto and recoil caused it to scoot off the table to the rear resulting in muzzle sweep of owner. The firing pin was stuck in protruded position because of dried up cosmoline (or equivalent).

Dan

 

[outdoorsman1]

I have never seen either and an AD or an ND. This topic is kinda one of my pet peeves...
Copied form my post #99 here.... http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=625398

Snip...

I will say this... As far as AD vrs ND, I believe that while an AD is possible (default in the firearm) they are extremely rare.. Most of what is referred to as an AD is (in my opinion) actually a ND... This story being a prime example...The firearm did not malfunction (AD), the carrier malfunctioned (ND).

Here is the entire post...http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=7730163&postcount=99

Some here are still getting the two confused.....

Outdoorsman1

 

[outdoorsman1]

I witnessed one earlier in life. My brother, in the adjoining bedroom, was cleaning his pistol one day and "kapow!" Left one in the chamber he did. We both learned something that day, fortunately at only his desk's expense, and which could have turned out Much different.

Actually this was a ND (Negligent Dischsrge) not an AD (Accidental Discharge).

Outdoorsman1

 

[vellocet]

Hey shadow, as impressed as I am by your command of military short-hand, try using terms that make sense to those of us without intense similar experience. As to me, I never had an "AD" that was not my own stupid fault. "ND"s,too.

 

[oldpapps]

After 33 years of being in the business I have seen several unintentional discharges. The closest to a weapons failure was at the old police station (built in the 1930s, now a parking lot). Weapons were not permitted into the lock-up or booking area and as a general rule officers would just stick their weapon in a drawer or on the counter on the outside of the booking area, behind a large lexan window (spelling-plastic window material). One officer dropped the mag from his 1911A1 and racked the slide and put the very safe and empty weapon in a drawer. After completing his booking duties he was buzzed back out of the booking area. He had completed the loading of his 45 when a prisoner became rowdy. He parked his 45 on the counter and went in to help. Several minuets later, that 45 went off! The bullet bent the metal rail at the bottom of the lexan and cracked the lexan window. The weapon spun and ended up on the floor. The now empty shell casing was collected and there was NO firing pin mark, no trace, on the primer. A slam fire/hang fire! The shift supervisors weapon was lying next to the suspect 45 or some one would have gotten reamed.
Old cops have lots of old stories. Retired 6 years now.

OSOK

 

[jhnrckr]

i had an SKS and fired off a two round burst at the range. shot fine for a few rounds and did it again. Next time I took it out the firing pin broke. the firing end of the pin was mushroomed like it was made of soft metal. replaced the pin and sold the thing and never wanted another SKS.

 

[jhnrckr]

i had a bag of 9mm reloads on the shelf and it fell over and the rim of one cartridge lined up perfectly with a primer and it went off. The case ruptured and I found the fmj a few feet away. it developed enough velocity to slightly dent the tip. I am not sure what it hit, couldnt find any damage. I was waiting for my neighbors to call the law but nothing became of it, it was about as loud as a .25acp and closet was full of smoke.