Accidental discharge

[ExAgoradzo]

The decocker thing unnerves me. My P89 and M92 both have decockers and I always use them...pointed in a safe direction, usually assisting the hammer going down gently. So far, no ADs, but nevertheless...

 

[Chindo18Z]

My P89 and M92 both have decockers and I always use them...pointed in a safe direction,...

Yeah I do the same (point in a safe direction), although I have never seen or heard of a decocking failure on the Beretta 92/M9 series in 28+ years of use.

I have seen literally tens of thousands of decocking manipulations with hundreds of M9s and it's just something that has never failed (to my knowledge). I think the Beretta is one of the safest semi-autos extant.

To a lesser degree of experience, I've not seen a decocking failure with Smith & Wesson 1st, 2nd, or 3rd Gen pistols either. Same for many CZ75 BD variants I've owned.

The P-38 AD I saw involved a friend decocking the weapon as he pointed it at a bucket of sand. It fired without his finger being on the trigger (I was standing next to him). How? I'm not sure and it was long ago (late '70s) with a well worn surplus WWII weapon.

But, as you said...best to keep them pointed in a safe direction when applying the decocker. I do.

 

[sixgunner455]

SKS doubled. Had a smith look over and fix the rifle, then sold it.

Lost control of the hammer on a S&W Model 10. Big, unexpected bang.

Unloading a Ruger .22 pistol for disassembly requires pulling the trigger. Not clearing the pistol properly will result in an unexpected bang.

Saw a soldier jump out of a cargo truck with an M4 slung over his shoulder. The flash suppressor (muzzle) hit the ground, and a round went off.

 

[bergmen]

Yeah I do the same (point in a safe direction), although I have never seen or heard of a decocking failure on the Beretta 92/M9 series in 28+ years of use.

I have seen literally tens of thousands of decocking manipulations with hundreds of M9s and it's just something that has never failed (to my knowledge). I think the Beretta is one of the safest semi-autos extant.

To a lesser degree of experience, I've not seen a decocking failure with Smith & Wesson 1st, 2nd, or 3rd Gen pistols either. Same for many CZ75 BD variants I've owned.

The P-38 AD I saw involved a friend decocking the weapon as he pointed it at a bucket of sand. It fired without his finger being on the trigger (I was standing next to him). How? I'm not sure and it was long ago (late '70s) with a well worn surplus WWII weapon.

But, as you said...best to keep them pointed in a safe direction when applying the decocker. I do.

The brilliance of the design of the decocker on the Beretta 92 is that the rotation of the decocking lever moves the rear portion of the firing pin out of alignment with the forward portion making it near (if not completely) impossible for an AD to occur during the decocking operation.

Dan

 

[Zombiphobia]

Saw a soldier jump out of a cargo truck with an M4 slung over his shoulder. The flash suppressor (muzzle) hit the ground, and a round went off.

this kind of 'bumb-fire' is fairly reliable with the M16 series. Even with the safety on, if the bolt is back and you bump it on a hard surface, the bolt will drop.

The brilliance of the design of the decocker on the Beretta 92 is that the rotation of the decocking lever moves the rear portion of the firing pin out of alignment with the forward portion making it near (if not completely) impossible for an AD to occur during the decocking operation.

It's doable, though. The hammer can drop before the saftey is in full 'safe' position, but to do it so it still strikes the firing pin almost requires doing it on purpose

 

[P-32]

Some 20 + years ago I was stationed at China Lake which is located in CA. A new gun shop opened up and while they did not always have what I needed, I still liked supporting a local shop. There was a bar fly for the lack of a better term who was always hanging out at this gun shop. After going there a few times this fellow and I would exchange greetings and some other small talk. Then one day the bar fly wasn’t there. Hmm, weird. A few weeks later I went out to the shop and found the bar fly there at the gun shop. He was sporting a bandage around his head. I asked what happened and was told he kept a loaded wheel gun under his pillow at night. He said he must have fiddled with the gun in his sleep, because he woke up and found himself shot in the head and one round expended in the pistol. He said he decided to leave the pistol on his night stand from now on. This my friends was a ND.

Then there was this Filipino guy at China Lake who told me he woke up one morning, grabbed his 38, flipped the cylinder open, dumpped the rounds, flipped the cylinder closed and proceeded to shoot his dirty laundry lying on the floor. He said he thought all the rounds came out and it was his first trigger pull with a bead on his laundry. The same guy shot his TV with a 9mm. He was shooting Bad guys on TV and forget he had loaded the pistol………he saw another bad guy on his TV and lshot his TV.This my friends was a couple of ND's.

I came back to work after a hunting trip. (Still China Lake) I noticed there were strips of metal hanging from the ceiling of the office. Before I could ask, one of the guys told me it was Mazda Jerky because Tommie shot his hunting partners Mazda pickup. The story is not real clear to me because I think some important details were left out. I was told they came back to the camp site after hunting. Tommie said he could not open the bolt on his 7 Mag, so he laid it on a picnic table. Tommie saw a Park Ranger approaching so he decided he needed to get the rifle unloaded. Tommie reached over to flip the bolt open and his fingers racked the trigger. The rifle discharged and shot the Mazda in the tail gate area. I asked Tommie what the Park Ranger did about this. Tommy said he didn’t know because the Park Ranger was laughing so hard as he left.

WhenTommy transfered to a new Command, he forget his training jacket. We discovered this and being we were good sailors decided to forward the training jacket to the his new Commands Maintence Officer. (I'm so evil) However the traing Jacket now had some extra materials in it. Cartoons of Tommy tracking pick ups. A pick up hang from a tree. One of my favorites was a recipe forMada Block Stew. These were just a few examples of what the entire office came up with. It did go one and on. I got feed back from Tommy's new command. They enjoyed it. Tommy didn't.

 

[RobGR]

Glock leg comes to mind in regard to this argument, but that's how glocks were designed. There was that recent terrible story about a father with a glock tucked in his pants, not holstered, with a chambered round that went to the store with his family, glock goes off when he's unbuckling his seat belt and he dies. User error, but still just a horrific situation that could have easily been avoided.

My personal story. When I was 14 I came home (apartment) and there were splinters down my hallway. I traced the path and it came to a hole in the hallway closet, opened the closet, and there was a hole through the wall. Someone had shot a bullet from the adjoining apartment. I called the cops and they came over. No one was home besides myself and my mom was at work, what was she gonna do anyway. Turns out the guy next door had finished cleaning his firearm, was putting it away in his hallway closet and it "went off". I have no idea what charges were issued, but the cops did not arrest him, maybe because he was military. No one was hurt, so I wasn't worried. Felt bad b/c he was a nice guy, I was young and just had no idea why a bullet had been fired through my wall. He could have been drinking, suicidal, didn't like the music I listened to, who knows, calling the cops sounded like the right thing to do at the time. I just hope it didn't lead to a discharge or any demotion.

 

[MARKMALL]

I saw a guy shoot a trap house once. He had a pump shot gun and when he racked a shell in it went off! He said his finger was not on the trigger. he tried it agin and the gun went off , after which he put it in his car.

 

[benzy2]

I've seen rifles double. My double was with a trigger adjusted to have too little sear engagement. With an adjustment it stopped and went away.

The other I've seen happen was with an air pistol. I put the safety on, adjusted what I was adjusting, and then aimed and pulled the trigger. forgot the safety was on. Since I wasn't familiar with the pistol I looked down to see where the safety was at. With my finger off of the trigger it fired when the safety was turned off. The guy who owns it said that you need to recock the pistol after you place it on safe to reset the trigger but I didn't know that when I was shooting.

 

[Strykervet]

I've never experienced or witnessed an "accidental" discharge that could be attributed to the malfunction of a weapon. All revolved around failure to operate the given weapon correctly.

I've seen 'em slamfire before. Since that second shot wasn't intended, technically it was an AD attributed to the weapon. The ATF doesn't necessarily see it this way though, they have brought cases against folks who, much to their chagrin, experienced slamfires at the range.

Junk weapons are more likely to do this. The SKS is reknowned for it, it is the only one I've ever personally experience, and is the overwhelming reason I won't own one. Not due to the ATF though, if anyone should be held accountable it should be them for approving the importation of the weapon in the first place.

The range I go to has an 8 round rule in the mag. 8 because of the wonderful Garand that you never see there (ten would make more sense with M4's and stripper clips) and limited because of slamfires. This range has been in operation since 1949 though, so I bet they've seen it all.

Also, weapons in poor repair can do this. Say you have a well worn 1911 cocked and locked. There isn't a whole lot of metal keeping that hammer back, and a poor trigger job combined with other factors can make a weapon unsafe.

 

[kb58]

I guess the good thing about this thread is that it underscores that firearms are mechanical assemblies which can therefore never be fully trusted. That can't help but improve their handling, at least by me! These stories still creep me out though, being at the range and wondering what kind of poorly-maintained hardware is nearby and where it's pointed... "Oops, sorry, it's never done that before... let me adjust it a little."

What's also a bit worrisome are the stories of these "guns-gone-bad" and how they sold off. Makes me wonder if the new owners were fully briefed about what their new toy sometimes does...

 

[243winxb]

12ga double bbl, discharged on closing. Worn sear. Walther P38 9mm, fired on feeding/action closing on a round from the magazine. Most accident prone firearm ever made, is the Win M94 with no safety.

 

[Fred Fuller]

I had a Sterling .22LR pistol (make/model mentioned once before here, I see) with a worn sear on the striker. It started to slam fire when the slide was dropped on a loaded magazine. Replaced the striker but retired the pistol anyway. Same thing happened once with a worn or botched trigger job in a 1911, but it went full auto when the slide was dropped . It got all new sear/hammer/disconnector most ricky tick.

Was helping a friend mount a scope and sight in his brand new Marlin 336 at the local gravel pit one Saturday afternoon. I had gotten the scope adjusted for his eye relief and tightened down in the rings, but he wanted me to try the first shot to see if it was on paper. So I loaded one round into the magazine and, with the muzzle pointed up, racked it into the chamber. BOOM! My trigger finger was definitely not inside the trigger guard, and we never did figure out what happened. There were a couple of loose styrofoam pellets from the packing material inside the action, perhaps one of those had gotten someplace it didn't need to be. The rifle never did it again, but it was highly unnerving to have it happen on the first round fired in a new gun.

A classmate on a deer drive in AL struck a wounded fox with the butt of his 12 gauge double barrel while holding it by the barrels, one barrel of the gun was still loaded with buckshot (he had fired the other barrel at the fox). The loaded barrel discharged and the shot charge struck him in the right thigh about midway between knee and hip, removing a section from his femur. It came within an ace of killing him and left his right leg about 3" shorter than his left. He hadn't wanted to fire the second load of buckshot at the fox.

 

[LiquidTension]

I watched an Albanian SKS go full auto once. It was clear of cosmoline and we'd been shooting it prior, but apparently something was worn. You'd never have guessed it from inspecting the thing, it was in fantastic condition. Thankfully we were shooting in the mountains so the extra rounds just stitched up the hill.

Saw a 12ga fire upon chambering. The load went into the dirt about 6 feet forward of the firing line. Can't recall what model it was, something I'd never seen before.

My coworker's son touched off a .38 at about a 45 degree angle one time at my club due to not keeping his finger off the trigger after repeated warnings. They were never invited back.

 

[vellocet]

Decockers scare me. Even after I know they work alright I still point in a safe direction and ease the hammer down. All that slamming can't be good for the pistol, either. And yes, I know that you point in a safe direction with the decocker used as well.

 

[Trent]

I've had an accidental discharge with a Savage 112. I was 22, and adjusted the trigger on the light side. Ok, ok... WAAAAAAY on the light side.

Round fired when I chambered it. Hammer dropped and BOOM. Gun bounced around some but the muzzle was pointed safely downrange when it happened (I only load if the muzzle is pointed down range - no matter the weapon or range rules, I run cold at the range.)

Anyway lesson learned, don't adjust a trigger so light it'll fire from the vibration of closing the bolt. I qualify this one as AD, instead of ND, because my finger wasn't anywhere close to the trigger when the gun fired.

Aside from that, I've had two (yes, two) negligent discharges, both also in my early 20's (15 years ago).

First one I had a MAC90 leaned up against the kitchen counter. Saw a full mag on the counter. Picked it up, jacked the slide, round flew out, dropped the hammer and BOOM. Seeing the full mag I neglected to check if it had a mag in it (and it was faced mag away from me, so I didn't see one was in it.)

Muzzle was only 5" in front of my nose when it went off. Lost my hearing for a bit. Didn't even HEAR the shot. Just white flash and silence.

Second ND was while clearing a 45. Didn't feel for the magazine (same cause as the first one, chambered a fresh round in to the thing). This time the round went through an interior wall, through the outbound hot water pipe of the water heater, tore through part of a concrete wall near the basement window, broke through the window, and the projectile (most of it) was found on the grass outside the window about 3' away.

I keep that particular projectile on top of my radio, on my reloading bench, as a reminder.

Water heater made quite a mess, btw.

 

[dannyintexas]

I have had TWO NDs in my life (my fault, both times) and to this day, many years later, they both make me sick to my stomach just remembering.

 

[Googleplex]

I had my NEF Handi-Rifle fire a 3 round burst. Figure that one out.

In person, I've only seen two guns malfunction in a manner that would cause the gun to fire more than wanted. I saw a guy shooting trap with a single trigger over/under that would occasionally fire both barrels simultaneously, and I've seen the Remington debacle. The remington was not loaded, and the O/U was intentionally fired, but getting both barrels was not the desired outcome. Talk about a surprise.

 

[plodder]

ND

Remington 700BDL in 25.06 that I bought new in 1972. Diligently cleaned & oiled over the years, but never into the trigger group. On the range one day with it cradled in the Lead Sled, closed the bolt on a new round and SURPRISE!! All this occured about one week after I saw the Remington trashing feature on the news and scoffed at it. After figuring out that it was my rifle that made that noise I tried to re-enact to see if I had caught my sleeve or something on the trigger. (Nope) Took it straightaway to a Smith who said that it had degenerated to a 3/4 lb. trigger pull because of gunk buildup in sear. Although I sure miss that light trigger, the 3.5 lb pull is much safer. Nonetheless, it reinforced the need to pay very close attention to where the muzzle is pointed on every firearm I handle.

 

[Panzercat]

Talking to a buddy who thinks that 'accidental discharges', by that I mean the operator not doing something stupid, but a true defect in the gun or the like happens more often than I do.
Tell me your story of 'true' AD's and let us as a group decide how often it happens.

Thanks.

Tell him the little accidental discharge faeries visit owners guns at night to ensure they fire independent of owner activities. Now granted, there are some firearm designs that are more conducive to safe handling than others, but even then its the owners job to know the limits of his firearm. For example, you gotta be careful when racking the slide on a hi-point with a live round in the chamber: The firing pin is integral to the ejection mechanism.

Don't make the discharge faeries' jobs any easier than they need be.

 

[Averageman]

Tanks comming off the range are checked once by the crew and once by a Noncom Range Safety.
As the Gunner, I safe the cannon, safe the 240 and then check my loader. Great run and everything was clear and smooth so far.
We pull off the range, cool off the engine and begin to do post op maintanance. Just as the drivers head cleared the turret as he stood up, the XO's Ma Duce let one round go. It was so close to my drivers head the chin strap on his CVC swayed. The round went in to range 117C at about 1000m from the elevation of the weapon.
That scared the crap out of me, I have no intention of seeing someone take a .50 cal at about three feet in the face.
The XO was pretty quiet for a while.

 

[guyfromohio]

I had an AD racking the slide on a POS Jennings 22. No injury. Also had an SKS go full-auto before it stopped working completely.

 

[CAR-AR]

Buddy and I went hunting and I was using with my father's bolt action 410 shotgun. I waited till we were on the land where we had permission to hunt on before I loaded the 410. It had a five round clip and one of those pull the the bolt deals to arm the shotgun. I set the safety and about ten steps later the shotgun went off all by itself. We had taken the hunting safety class and we kept our muzzle pointing in safe directions. Later that year a friend had a ND that resulted into the loss of the use of his right leg.

 

[Elkins45]

My college roommate experienced an AD when he racked a round into his Mossberg 500. I sort of suspected he really had a ND, but I examined the gun and could make it drop the hammer by racking the slide about 10% of the time.

Fortunately he was practicing good gun handling and had the muzzle pointed toward the ceiling. I'll never forget the look on his face when I ran into his room to see him standing there with plaster in his hair like it had just snowed on his head!