Accurizing the Taurus Judge

[TTv2]

I've been shooting a lot of .45 in wheelguns the past few months and am learning some things. In the Redhawk when using .45 ACP in the .45 Colt cylinder, a roll crimp when using a .45 Colt bullet and a fast burning powder (Bullseye, 5.5gr) is best as the powder burns completely, unlike Blue Dot.

A few months ago I tried 8 grains of Unique under a 250gr Berry's in .45 Colt for the Taurus Public Defender judge as the oversize throats of the Judge makes it impossible to shoot lead bullets without causing severe leading and they seemed to be doing pretty good. However, after I chronographed .45 Schofield with a max charge of Trail Boss in the Redhawk, I was getting standard deviations in the single digits.

So, I decided the first step in improving accuracy with the Judge is to try a max charge of the same powder in the Schofield with the plated Berry's bullet. I'm not going to get a high velocity, hopefully I'll be near 600 fps, but it's really a test to see if the shorter case can help improve performance in a .410 revolver. If it does, I'll switch powders to Unique, Titegroup, and 700-X. I expect Titegroup to do well as that's a fast burning powder and, given how Bullseye did with .45 ACP in the Redhawk, the long chambers like fast burning powders.

Over time, when Berry's bullets become available again, I'm going to try their hollow base .45 bullet and see if the extra gripping of the rifling and possibly the throat helps in the Public Defender.

I know, it all seems rather quaint to go through all this work given it's a Judge, but JFK once said, "We choose to do these things not because they are easy, but because they a hard."

I say I choose to do this thing not because it makes sense, but because when it comes to the Judge there's a lot of nonsense.

 

[kidneyboy]

One of my brothers has a Judge as his EDC. His reloads are very accurate out to about 10yds and accurate enough out to 20yds. I will chase him down for the recipe. Pretty sure he uses a hollow point of some sort.
Sounds like you are expecting some flak from the gallery for this project I am of the opinion that if you are a dedicated reloader you can make an accurate load for any firearm.

 

[TTv2]

One of my brothers has a Judge as his EDC. His reloads are very accurate out to about 10yds and accurate enough out to 20yds. I will chase him down for the recipe. Pretty sure he uses a hollow point of some sort.
Sounds like you are expecting some flak from the gallery for this project I am of the opinion that if you are a dedicated reloader you can make an accurate load for any firearm.

I agree, I think when we leave the limitations that factory ammo gives us, we're able to tailor a load for specific guns and it may not make them win matches, but they'll shoot better.

I'm interested to hear what the recipe is, these .410 revolvers are an offbeat platform and more data is always good.

 

[edwardware]

. . . as the oversize throats of the Judge makes it impossible to shoot lead bullets without causing severe leading. . .

You could always fix the throats.

Generally speaking, short brass is detrimental if the bullet comes free of the case mouth before entering the throat. If it's rattling it's way from mouth to throat, that's not great.

 

[TTv2]

You could always fix the throats.

Generally speaking, short brass is detrimental if the bullet comes free of the case mouth before entering the throat. If it's rattling it's way from mouth to throat, that's not great.

How, by making the throats larger? The throats are what they are and will be .456" for life. Not using lead is the first and only step towards improving accuracy.

The length in the Judge from where the bullet exits the case to where it reaches the throat is already long, so an extra third of an inch by using .45 Schofield isn't going to have much affect, but the powder burn, the reduction of air in the case, it should help.

 

[SharpDog]

I've been shooting a lot of .45 in wheelguns the past few months and am learning some things. In the Redhawk when using .45 ACP in the .45 Colt cylinder, a roll crimp when using a .45 Colt bullet and a fast burning powder (Bullseye, 5.5gr) is best as the powder burns completely, unlike Blue Dot.

A few months ago I tried 8 grains of Unique under a 250gr Berry's in .45 Colt for the Taurus Public Defender judge as the oversize throats of the Judge makes it impossible to shoot lead bullets without causing severe leading and they seemed to be doing pretty good. However, after I chronographed .45 Schofield with a max charge of Trail Boss in the Redhawk, I was getting standard deviations in the single digits.

So, I decided the first step in improving accuracy with the Judge is to try a max charge of the same powder in the Schofield with the plated Berry's bullet. I'm not going to get a high velocity, hopefully I'll be near 600 fps, but it's really a test to see if the shorter case can help improve performance in a .410 revolver. If it does, I'll switch powders to Unique, Titegroup, and 700-X. I expect Titegroup to do well as that's a fast burning powder and, given how Bullseye did with .45 ACP in the Redhawk, the long chambers like fast burning powders.

Over time, when Berry's bullets become available again, I'm going to try their hollow base .45 bullet and see if the extra gripping of the rifling and possibly the throat helps in the Public Defender.

I know, it all seems rather quaint to go through all this work given it's a Judge, but JFK once said, "We choose to do these things not because they are easy, but because they a hard."

I say I choose to do this thing not because it makes sense, but because when it comes to the Judge there's a lot of nonsense.

I try not to Judge ...

Sorry, Couldn't resist

 

[AJC1]

That gun originally was sold to be able to also shoot 4570. The correct bullet diameter would be 458 used in that cartridge when shooting lead. Powder coat might help you out a lot

 

[jmorris]

That’s a big jump. FWIW I have never found Berry’s plated bullets to be the most accurate in any loading. Cheap clean bullet, they are, just not the most accurate.

 

[dcarr]

I had a Judge for awhile, a few trips to the range. My son had rifles, shot guns, no pistol. Gave it to him along with several boxes of .410 defensive ammo. Hope he never has to use it in earnest.
The blackhawks are just for fun, keeping them as long as I can get up and about and reload

 

[TTv2]

I only had 40 rounds and didn't shoot paper, but at 22 yards I was not having an issue hitting 8 inch round steel plates. I will definitely use Trail Boss again in .45 Schofield in the Public Defender and see how it does at longer distances and on paper in the future.

The only bad news I have is this load did not hit 600 fps, but it did come close.

Low-553
Hi-595
Avg-580
ES-42
Std Dev-12

IMO, getting an extreme spread less than 50 fps and a deviation of 12 for a .410 revolver with a 2 inch barrel is really good, but I would like more power, so after I load up more Trail Boss loads for longer range testing, I'm also going to do some Titegroup.

 

[Project355]

That gun originally was sold to be able to also shoot 4570. The correct bullet diameter would be 458 used in that cartridge when shooting lead. Powder coat might help you out a lot

I think you are mistaken.

 

[AJC1]

I think you are mistaken.

I thought the original judge could and it later updated it so that it didn't but you're right I could be mistaken I never owned one

 

[Bfh_auto]

What about using trimmed 444 brass?
You could seat the bullet flush with the case mouth like the nagant.

 

[Project355]

No, it was always 45/410. That was the concept. 45-70 base is .505, could never accept the .480 base, safely, from 410 shotties.

I had a 3x3 Judge, but gave it to a friend. She loves it. I ended upvwith a Governor, mainly for weight and 45ACheaP

 

[TTv2]

I went shooting and got more data and also shot paper. This time I used Titegroup and 700x powders in .45 Schofield using the 250 grain Berry's bullet.

Results:

4.5gr 700x
Avg- 591
Hi-604
Lo-569
Std Dev- 13

4.8gr 700x
Avg- 613
Hi- 627
Lo- 602
Std Dev- 9

4.5gr Titegroup
Avg- 559
Hi- 580
Lo- 541
Std Dev- 13

IDK if the Titegroup load was a max or near max charge with the Berry's bullet, sadly data for Berry's bullets specifically are not available. The 4.8gr was a max charge for 700x in Lyman's 50th manual and it shot better, no unburnt powder was left behind while Titegroup had some unburned powder. so the Judge likes 700x powder in .45 and I do too and will use it again in the future. Titegroup... IDK. I'll try it again with a different bullet, but the 250 seemed good.

That said, it's becoming clear to me that getting the Public Defender to reach 700 fps with .45 Schofield is going to be a tall task with a 250gr bullet, so if I want something that could expand I need to switch a 200 or 230 grain bullet for more velocity.

The issue there is Berry's is out of everything, the only jacketed or plated .45 I can find right now is under 200 grains and I have a rule with .45 revolvers that I'll never shoot a bullet lighter than 200 grains. So, unfortunately, this may be the last bit of testing I can do for this thread until I can get more bullets and IDK when that's going to be.

Paper target scans below, all shots at 10y rested unless otherwise noted. 700x with the 4.5 charge did best, but the sights on the Judge do not make it easy, nor did the light grey square I was aiming for. The squares are measuring roughing 1.187"x1.187"

Titegroup


700x

 

[FROGO207]

You know Magtech makes 410 brass hulls that use LPP. I use a set of 45 Colt dies to reform seat and crimp my buckshot loads. Should work for custom rounds for you.