due to the physical size of the 230 gr. bullet and the room inside
Or the lack thereof: Right XDKingslayer.
due to the physical size of the 230 gr. bullet and the room inside
As much as I love my GAP, it's original purpose was to fit in smaller sized handguns. That never really happened. Springfield never made the GAP in it's 3" subcompact model and I'm not sure about Glock. In fact, the XD.45 is made in basically the same sizes that the GAP is. So it really accomplished nothing. Again we're back to the EMP being the only thing left to save the GAP. It's not going to fade away, but nobody will make new guns around it. There will still be people shooting it because they bought one and I'm in that crowd.
About 100 years ago the US Army had a problem stopping suicidal, hopped up, Morros. They finally went back to using the 45lc to get the job done and got John Browning looking for a way to satisfy the need to knock down a gurella wrapped in cloth and willling to die.
Correct me if I am wrong, but If we compare weapon systems that chamber both rounds I think that you will see the error in your supposition. The Glock 37 is smaller dimensionally than the Glock 21. The SAXD in 45GAP is smaller dimensionally than the SAXD in 45ACP.
kenpocop,
RE: Moros. The 45 in that story was the .45LC, not the .45ACP, but the rest of what you posted matches with what I've read elsewhere.
ugaarguy,
More case capacity + equal pressure = higher velocity. The GAP operates at .45ACP +P pressure levels but has less case capacity. That means that the .45ACP +P can be loaded to higher velocities than the GAP with the same barrel length and bullet weight. What ammo companies choose to do may not reflect that, but the fact remains.
XDKingslayer,
Pressure is not performance. The .45ACP +P and the .45GAP have identical PRESSURE LIMITS, not identical performance. .45ACP (NOT +P) and .45GAP DO have identical performance although they have different pressures. See the comment I made to ugaarguy.
Walkalong,
The .45ACP and .45GAP performance with 230gr bullets is surprisingly similar even though the initial cartridge specs said that the GAP wasn't well suited to this bullet weight. The added case capacity of the .45ACP is compensated for by its pressure disadvantage compared to the GAP. But yes, in general, the case with more capacity will usually outperform the smaller case with heavier bullets. In this case it's pretty equal--which is gravy considering that the initial design said the GAP would be significantly handicapped when loaded with 230gr bullets.
mdao has it right.
BTW, don't have a .45ACP, don't have a .45GAP. Have plans to get neither. Just trying to see that the facts are straight.
Not a bit. Nothing I posted was something that requires personal experience to know. In fact, everything I posted is readily available from reliable sources.Ah, Theres the rub.
Not calling your reading comprehension into question, but could you please show me where kenpocop said anything about the 45LC on this thread?Yep. He knows that and he said that.
About 100 years ago the US Army had a problem stopping suicidal, hopped up, Morros. They finally went back to using the 45lc to get the job done and got John Browning looking for a way to satisfy the need to knock down a gurella wrapped in cloth and willling to die.
Not entirely. Remember, the bbl also becomes part of the expansion chamber as the bullet moves down it. This effect requires slower burning powders to be used to full advantage. Hence some rounds are dependent on bbl length to maximize pressure (ergo velocity) from their slower burning powders. This allows other cartridges with faster burning powders to gain a velocity edge in a shorter bbl. when the they would not have such an edge in a longer bbl. They do this because their faster powder is fully combusted before the bullet leaves the bbl. Hence the maximum possible gas expansion occurs. On the other hand the slower burning powder is not fully combusted before leaving the short bbl. and the resultant gas expansion, no longer linearly confined, is lost.ugaarguy,
More case capacity + equal pressure = higher velocity. The GAP operates at .45ACP +P pressure levels but has less case capacity. That means that the .45ACP +P can be loaded to higher velocities than the GAP with the same barrel length and bullet weight. What ammo companies choose to do may not reflect that, but the fact remains.
It's productive by showing what kind of performance a shooter can expect from either cartridge in off the shelf loadings, and showing the performance each cartridge is capable of when a specialty manufacturer (or careful handloader) pushes it closer to the edge. The Speer and Double Tap loads were cited as representatives from the respective categories.The comparisons of DT ammo to other company's ammo is not productive for drawing conclusions pertaining to ammunition performance, IMO. If you want to compare a DT loading to another DT loading, or a SPEER loading to another SPEER loading, that's got a much better chance of revealing something other than how willing each company is to push the limits.
Niiiiice...Walkalong said:One of my favorite lines from Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid.
"You just keep on thinkin' there Butch, that's what your good at"
I suppose it's possible, but I can't find enough information along those lines to make a comment worthwhile. I agree in theory with what you said, but both the case capacity and pressure differences are so minor, I'm not sure that there's enough difference to get the effect you describe.ugaarguy said:My question is, does the GAP generally use faster burning powders than the ACP? If so, the GAP could potentially edge the ACP in short bbls - like the 3" bbl found on the SA EMP.
Except I'm leaning away from using DT loads as representative of anything but DT's willingness to push the limits. For example, I contacted Hornady some time ago and asked why they didn't load the 10mm hotter than they were. Their reply was that they were limited by SAAMI standards and didn't feel they could load it any hotter. Kind of interesting coming from the company that gave us Light Magnum technology... After that, I've looked at offerings from DT and BuffaloBore (to name a couple of "boutique" ammo companies) in a slightly different light.The Speer and Double Tap loads were cited as representatives from the respective categories.
.I agree in theory with what you said, but both the case capacity and pressure differences are so minor, I'm not sure that there's enough difference to get the effect you describe
I really don't know.I'm also wondering, if the GAP is running at ACP +P pressure levels why was the thicker case web necissary?
BTW, the quote you listed was from a post by ElPasoWrangler NOT kenpocop--kenpocop has never posted anything about the .45LC on this thread.