advice for gun safe and gun storage

[RP88]

well, several things as of late are motivating me to find a decent gun safe, mainly for long guns. Those factors are:

-growing firearms collection
-need a better and more secure place to store them in case of fire (lots of portable heaters around in the house)
-someone stole my car/house keys and got into my car today and now can maybe get into my house at any moment and steal them if they looked and got my personal info, leading me to temporarily re-locate certain valuables to friends and family other than my own residence until locks can be changed out.

after this problem gets sorted out, I believe a decent gun safe will be in order as soon as budget allows.

what would be some good recommendations for a somewhat inexpensive but reliable and secure gun safe? I'm not looking for anything to hold much - just maybe no more than 6-7 long guns at the foreseeable most. Bolting into the ground or wall would also be a problem, so would anyone have any good ideas for alternative methods of grounding the safe to prevent people from carrying it off?

thanks for the help

 

[jakemccoy]

I'm also interested to know how someone could ground a safe without bolting the safe to the ground or wall. The only other methods I can imagine are more intrusive to housing structures.

Anyway, if you do decide to bolt, a simple Stack-On in a closet corner will get the job done against smash-n-grab thieves:

http://www.stack-on.com/securityplus/gun_safes/gsg-710.html
http://www.stack-on.com/securityplus/gun_safes/gs-8.html

By the way, I'd have new locks within 24 hours. I'd fortify the doors while I was at it. However, it would take me about a week to decide on the right safe and another week to get it.

 

[Sir Aardvark]

Bolting into the ground or wall would also be a problem, so would anyone have any good ideas for alternative methods of grounding the safe to prevent people from carrying it off?

I can think of two ways to do this.

First, would be to line the floor of the safe with lead bricks to make it so heavy that anyone trying to take it would have an extremely difficult time.
Yes... they really do sell lead bricks. The ones I have seen are used for radiation shielding in hospital Nuclear Medicine Hot Labs - they weigh about 40 pounds each.
You would need to have a concrete slab underneath your safe, or some sort of reinforced floor, if the plan is to make the safe so heavy that it becomes a deterrent to theft. You could easily add hundreds of pounds to the safe by doing this, but, each brick costs $$$.

Second, is to attach large reinforced metal "wings" to the safe, either via welding or thru-bolting, so that you make the safe too large to fit through the doorway of the room or closet that it is located in.

I am curious as to why bolting into a wall would be a problem?.
Most houses have drywall-over-stud construction, and it is very simple to patch holes in drywall in case you ever have to move the safe.

...somewhat inexpensive but reliable and secure gun safe?

I'm not trying to be a bubble-burster here, but no such thing exists.
REAL Gunsafes are very expensive, costing upwards of $2,000.00 used (not including delivery) - but security doesn't come cheap!
Most of what people describe as "Gunsafes" are actually called "Residential Security Containers", or, RSC's, and are really nothing more than sheet metal covered drywall that is marketed as a "Gunsafe", which offer very little security, and even less "fireproofing".
If you do a search on THR, you will find multiple posts on this subject by those who are professionals in the safe/security industry.
There are videos on YouTube showing people peeling open an RSC in just a few minutes with common hand tools.
There are pictures of RSC's that have been opened with nothing but a simple axe.

If inexpensive is the keyword here, then you might want to get a Stack-on type safe and bolt it to the wall in a closet as Jake suggests. This will stop most smash and grab type robbers from making off with your firearms. You could even install a Solid-Core door and Deadbolt on the closet door for added security.

 

[Geneseo1911]

There are several very good threads here on THR discussing safes and RSCs. Check out a1abdj's posts for an education. Of course, with over 1K posts you probly know that.

There hasn't been a good review here of Sturdy Safe. If anyone has one, I'd love to hear about it (or see it if you are in downstate IL). I requested a price list, and I can get a 7ga. "18 gun" model (w/out fire insul.) shipped all the way from CA to IL for a little over $1100. This seems like a bargain for what they appear to be. And I suspect shipping is a good chunk of that. Unless I hear a good reason not to, I think that is the way I'll be going in the next year. My collection isn't very valuable, but I don't want to be the guy to put ANY guns into the hands of BGs.

 

[threefeathers]

I chose American Security and filled it with guns. I added 2 bags of lead shot and this baby now weighs 600+ pounds. Someone would have to be a professional thief to get it. But, that kind of effort would be easilly seen by the experts.

 

[a1abdj]

inexpensive but reliable and secure gun safe?

There's no such thing. Safes really are a matter of "getting what you pay for". Many gun safes go beyond that by paying more for what you're not getting.

If you have a budget in mind, I could probably point you in a better direction.

There hasn't been a good review here of Sturdy Safe.

They aren't a bad product. I've seen a few in person, and haven't heard of any problems with them.

 

[eldogg]

i bought one of these. dollar for dollar it was hard to beat. 38 gun safe for $1195 delivered. he gives a NRA discount of 5%.
http://www.diamondbackgunsafes.com/

 

[RP88]

my budget would be at around 1000-1100, give or take some. That is what I sort of considered as being inexpensive for a possibly decent safe. Going over that would not be something I'm opposed to, but I'm not looking to go broke on one. I have a collection of five long guns, then all my mags and ammo. My collection will probably peek at ten guns at the very foreseeable most, so this doesnt need to be a big safe or RSC or whatever.

Bolting it down would be a problem because I still live at home with parents (I'm 20 - don't worry, they trust me and let me live my own life; the gun thing is of non-issue). My dad would likely be opposed to having me go into the slab or into his walls. With that in mind, I will probably load it up with weight in some way as mentioned. seems a bit more cost-effective as well.

And honestly, I won't be able to get this safe for awhile (couple months or so). My last real expensive gun purchase is on order, the lock changes will set me back a good deal, I still have a couple hundred to pay off on credit, I have monthly car payments, and I havent even gotten my Christmas shopping done yet. I am really looking into it though in order to keep my ARs and AK out of crook hands.

also, what are the price quotes on those stack-on safes?

 

[jasper275]

I have a sturdy safe, model 2327, 27 x 23 x 60. 7 gauge body, 5/16" door, fire lined. Got it about 2 months ago. Nice that the door was removable, or I'd never have gotten it in my trailer. With door, it's 770 pounds.

I'm pleased with it, much beefier construction than the Chinese Stack Ons I saw at Dick's Sporting Goods recently. I made it a point to buy American. I at first wanted the 8 gauge version of this Sturdy, but they only were making the 7 gauge, so I accepted, and am glad I did because I was able to move it with 2 other guys and a 2-wheel dolly.

My main complaint about the safe is the handle. Mine was corroded, and it requires a little too much force to open the live bolts. The handle just seems too fragile. Other than that, I like the finish and construction. Nice people to deal with instead of the faceless "distributor." I botched the delicate corner decals, so just got the name and lock decals on.

 

[Geneseo1911]

a1abdj- Thanks for all the info & advice you've given. I've learned a lot from going over your old posts. the Sturdy Safes you've seen; are the doorframes strong enough to resist prying the door open? Maybe you could become a centrally located distributor and save me some cash on delivery....

jasper- Any chance I could convice you to post a picture of the inside of your safe? Especially the door and door frame?

 

[a1abdj]

the Sturdy Safes you've seen; are the doorframes strong enough to resist prying the door open?

It depends on what you're prying with.

Most gun safes will resist prying witih a screwdriver or flat bar. Once you get to a 36" to 48" bar, some will start having some troubles.

If you're talking about a 6' bar, forget about it. I can lift a 5,000 pound vault door straight up in the air with a 6' bar that I have, and I only weigh 140 pounds.

To get a safe to really resist prying, you really need some beefy steel plate (or high PSI composite fill).

Since most gun safe attacks that I have seen have used tools found in the same home as the safe, I would simply hide anything that you think would be a threat against your safe.

Maybe you could become a centrally located distributor and save me some cash on delivery....

I think Sturdy only sells direct.

Shipping isn't really that bad. If you think it's high, consider that the manufacturer/distributor is probably getting a 50% to 75% discount due to volume.

If they are charging $300, it may cost you $1,000 as an individual.

 

[theotherwaldo]

Folks like myself that live in mobile homes, motor homes, apartments, trailers, or boats pretty much know that real safes aren't an option. In this case, Stack-On security is better than nothing.

I added another box just yesterday.

 

[RP88]

does Stack-On list their prices? I don't see them...

 

[jakemccoy]

Stack-On does not list prices. You have to buy from an outside dealer. Do a search for the best deal at the time. I got mine from Dick's about two years ago.

http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=3410544&view=all

 

[leadcounsel]

Sturdy safe

I have a large Sturdy Safe. I've had it for years and forget the details, but it's like 10 or 8 or maybe even 7 guage steel. The firelining is supposedly the best. They have a picture of a total burndown on their site, and even paper and plastic items were undamaged upon opening. They use a ceramic fire lining which is better than the cheap-o gypsum board that cheap safe manufacturers use. They also use higher grade of locking dial than the cheap safe makers.

The safe is outstanding in durability. The customer service is first rate. My door handle and dial came bent from the delivery company. Terry at Sturdy sent me a new door handle and dial free of charge.

My only disappointment was that the foam inserts they use to keep longguns separate pealed away from the metal. But that's a cheap fix with some adhesive.

With safes, you definately get what you pay for. I will definately recommend Sturdy.

Mine was around $1500-1800 shipped 4+ years ago. Now the same one is around $2000.

However, with steel prices falling, I would expect that this summer they should be cheaper.

Here's pictures of my safe.

Oh - and I would be stunned if someone was able to crack mine. First, rule out cutting it. I store black powder in it. Sparks or fire would likely kill that burglar. Next, rule out moving it. It's bolted to the floor and it weights 1,000 pounds empty! And it's in a location that is incredibly difficult to extract it. And it's prybar proof. The door is recessed and the door has many steel bars that hold it into the frame when the lock is engaged. And the high grade lock would require some impressive lock picking skills.

 

[glockman19]

I chose American Security and filled it with guns.

Me too. Mine is bolted to the floor and strapped to the wall. If you want it you'll have to take part of the house with you. Also...get a safe larget than your collection. Mine's already filled. Also get a safe that is fire proof.

 

[chuckusaret]

I bought a safe at Gander Mountain for $750, it holds all my guns ammo and other goodies. With the ammo, +/- 2000 rounds, long gun/handguns, plus the weight of the safe it would take an army to carry it out. I plan on bolting it to the hallway closet floor some day.
Glockman made a good point, make sure it is fireproof and larger than your collection. Remember your wife will add items to be stored in the safe other than guns. The room her items will take adds up in a hurry.

 

[TimRB]

"In this case, Stack-On security is better than nothing."

That about says it all. When I ran out of room in my first safe I bought a Stack-On on sale sight-unseen from Natchez. It is a colossal POS. I kept it because I only was going to put cheap milsurps in it, but almost anything else would be better. FWIW, Stack-On comes from China.

My wake up call (that led to my first safe) was when thieves broke into our house and took everything *but* the guns.

Tim

 

[jasper275]

Here are a few shots of the inside, first empty without the shelves assembled; the other, loaded up. The frame looks wide, not 1.5 or 2 inches wide like the Chicom models.