Gun safe vs. poured vault

[Acera]

I do find it amusing that we are discussing crashing through vaults in this thread. Most of the post concerning gun safes on this forum revolve around a 1/10" steel wall being sufficient to keep out your average burglar, yet in this post, 8" of reinforced concrete is not enough.

I am with you on this a1abdj, it seems like this thread has gone from the reasonable to the absurd pretty quickly.

Use an engineer and a good architect and you will have a chance to have a safer storage place better than 95% of the people on this board, for a very nominal cost.





I guess someone could start a fantasy thread about "If I build this, how would you break into it with unlimited resources and time?"

 

[Maverick223]

That kind of rigid mass doesn't need much velocity to defeat a relatively brittle barrier.

Properly constructed reinforced concrete is not all that brittle, it can be extremely resilient...even with a 0.25in. bumper...or a 0.50in. bumper. Concrete also has the ability to flex enough to limit damage, particularly with the addition of steel reinforcement. Were this not the case you concrete would be unsuitable for use in beams and girders, which is commonly used for parking decks, bridge decks, as well as industrial/commercial structures. Modern blends of concrete can exceed half the strength of steel, and the state-of-the-art mortars and cements can be stronger than the aggregate used within. The concrete mix used for small structural components (smaller than typically designed for architectural or mechanical reasons) or that used in nuclear power plant containment structures is particularly strong (but generally heavier than typical mixes).

 

[MachIVshooter]

I do find it amusing that we are discussing crashing through vaults in this thread. Most of the post concerning gun safes on this forum revolve around a 1/10" steel wall being sufficient to keep out your average burglar, yet in this post, 8" of reinforced concrete is not enough.

I am with you on this a1abdj, it seems like this thread has gone from the reasonable to the absurd pretty quickly.

Why is that so absurd? If one thinks about it, a vault that is as the OP mentioned (built on the exterior of the house by the garage) actually easier to gain access to through the means I've hypothesized (or something similar) than a 700 pound safe in the basement, bolted to the floor would be.

If one is serious enough about protecting their assets to actually build a vault, I would think that person would go the distance to simply put it in a location that makes it that much more impervious to break in. As I said, put that same 8" thick concrete vault below ground level, and it's gonna take specialized equipment and a greatly increased amount of time to get it open. And even with the motivation and a plan that could reduce the time, the equipment necessary is not easily procured or moved on site, and next to impossible without leaving a trail of evidence.

Just thinking about it from all angles, guys. That's all.

 

[Kentucky_Rifleman]

If one is serious enough about protecting their assets to actually build a vault, I would think that person would go the distance to simply put it in a location that makes it that much more impervious to break in.

Well... I honestly hadn't thought that much about it. Frankly I'm planning on using the safe to keep out the riff-raff and give me some fire protection. The reason I chose the garage (which requires extra pouring as opposed to a corner of the basement) is that I'm much more concerned about the practical problems of limiting humidity as the unlikely eventuality of someone being determined enough to put in the work required to breach the vault.

Anyone with enough planning and executing capabilities to breach a concrete vault would be far likelier to knock over a bank for cash than my vault for my measly gun collection.

I talked to an architect for over an hour today. He has experience with this type of thing, and it's going to be a fairly simple procedure to add the vault. He echoed another poster's recommendation about using sheetrock for fire retarding over moisture-proofing paint (he recommended UGL Drylock by name).

He figured the amount of ducting needed for the space I'm using (6'4" x 8'2") and we'll ventilate it off the garage's HVAC unit. We're going to duct through the ceiling to lessen the chances of the ductwork becoming a fire conduit.

Based on his estimates, the vault including footer and slab ceiling, but not including door will set me back about 2500.00

That's pretty good for what I'm getting out of it, and significantly cheaper than anything similar in steel.

KR

 

[a1abdj]

Based on his estimates, the vault including footer and slab ceiling, but not including door will set me back about 2500.00

Just don't freak out when you find that you'll spend more than that for any decent door.