MattTheHat
Member
Might as well add a few bunks in there too.
-Matt
-Matt
Gun safe vs. poured vault
- Thread starter Kentucky_Rifleman
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JW2
Member
I have something of this sort in my basement. It's concrete on all 5 sides, ceiling and floor. It gets pretty hot and humid in there so I run an electric dehumidifier and I haven't had any trouble at all with corrosion. I put an electronic deadbolt on the entry door for quick access. I probably need to add a couple more deadbolts I can lock with a key for when I go on vacation or gone for an extended period of time.
Vault every time.
For the price of a real safe suitable for storing guns in you can build a vault with a vault door that will hold ten times what you could put in a safe. You can run electrical to it and light it and run a real dehumidifier. Heck, you can run any utility to it you like and make monitoring it a snap.
You can even dedicate enough space to it to use as a shelter/safe room.
For the price of a real safe suitable for storing guns in you can build a vault with a vault door that will hold ten times what you could put in a safe. You can run electrical to it and light it and run a real dehumidifier. Heck, you can run any utility to it you like and make monitoring it a snap.
You can even dedicate enough space to it to use as a shelter/safe room.
slabuda
Member
Man I just had a thought of a "man cave". Been some posted on here before too. If you have the funds why not a gun "room" off the back of the garage. Call it a "storm shelter" on the blue prints. A 10x10 room with HVAC, electric, alarm system and nice wood paneling. One side has gun racks, the other, a reloading bench. Only accessible from the garage through a wood door, behind which is your vault door.
Rembrandt
Member
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- 4,657
Biggest concern would be where you build and what the water tables are in that area. Basements are at the bottom and that's where the water goes. Sewers can back up and water pipes can spring leaks. Even sumps are worthless if the power fails or if you're in a flood plain. It's the same concerns if safes were stored in a basement. Over time concrete foundations can crack and seep moisture. Done right it can be far superior to a safe.
Wingnut13
Member
To construct your roof you will need what is called B Deck. When you pour you walls let the rebar stick out a couple of feet. Then the B deck sits on top of the wall and you bend the rebar over that connect them together with additional rebar and weld it all up. You need to support it during the pour, but after that you can park your car on it!
In AZ you shouldn't have a problem with moisture. You can use what is called a mini-split A/C system to cool, heat and control moisture. Just electricity, a 3/8" and 1/2" copper line through the wall to hook it up. ~wingnut13
In AZ you shouldn't have a problem with moisture. You can use what is called a mini-split A/C system to cool, heat and control moisture. Just electricity, a 3/8" and 1/2" copper line through the wall to hook it up. ~wingnut13
medalguy
Member
I live in SE Texas and built a custom home in the early 80's. We took an area in the center of the house and designated it as a vault from the start, had the builder rearrange a few walls to open up the area to the desired size, and worked with him to make what I consider an almost perfect vault.
We bought a Browning Pro Steel vault door, custom made to our specs, with door sides that dropped 12 inches below grade, and poured the slab around the door frame. Then we framed the house around the vault area, lined it with 3/8 inch steel plate, welded it all up with a steel top, put in a light in the ceiling, and now we have a nice walk-in security vault. Well, it's walk-in except you'll trip over the guns. Anyway it has survived two burglaries with no loss. It is not fireproof (note I described it as almost perfect) but it's good enough for me.
We do not have humidity problems in the vault since it's inside the main house which is heated and air conditioned. There's no problem with moisture seeping in from the sides or bottom. It's hidden out in the open: the vault door is hidden by what appears to be a normal wooden door opening into the hallway, where you would expect a closet to be. Surprise-- the closet is a nice sized room and has a vault door on it.
I would recommend spending the money on a nice vault. You only need to do this once and it'll last a lifetime. Our problem now is that we're planning on selling this place and moving to our retirement place which does NOT have a vault and it's already built. I guess I'll have to line up safes somewhere-- a definite step down. Bummer.
We bought a Browning Pro Steel vault door, custom made to our specs, with door sides that dropped 12 inches below grade, and poured the slab around the door frame. Then we framed the house around the vault area, lined it with 3/8 inch steel plate, welded it all up with a steel top, put in a light in the ceiling, and now we have a nice walk-in security vault. Well, it's walk-in except you'll trip over the guns. Anyway it has survived two burglaries with no loss. It is not fireproof (note I described it as almost perfect) but it's good enough for me.
We do not have humidity problems in the vault since it's inside the main house which is heated and air conditioned. There's no problem with moisture seeping in from the sides or bottom. It's hidden out in the open: the vault door is hidden by what appears to be a normal wooden door opening into the hallway, where you would expect a closet to be. Surprise-- the closet is a nice sized room and has a vault door on it.
I would recommend spending the money on a nice vault. You only need to do this once and it'll last a lifetime. Our problem now is that we're planning on selling this place and moving to our retirement place which does NOT have a vault and it's already built. I guess I'll have to line up safes somewhere-- a definite step down. Bummer.
OP
OP
Kentucky_Rifleman
Member
Most basements in the neighborhood are damp or wet, which is a big part of why I'm building it in the garage.
The house itself is on top of a significant hill, 34 feet above the creek that drains the property. During the worst flooding Kentucky has seen in the hundred years our family has owned the place, the creek came up 7 feet. Add to that the 2 feet above grade I'm pouring the garage floor, and I feel pretty good about not flooding. If My site goes under water then the rest of Mercer County, and two-thirds of the state is under water.
KR
I have worked in construction for a while and I have seen some really nice homes with walk in vaults. Some of the cheaper, less noticable ways was one guy had a basement with a gun vault built under his front porch, the concrete floor of the porch was about 12 inches thick with woven rebar and he thought that if the house ever burned the vault would be safer being outside the majority of the house where if it was in the middle of the house and the first floor came down into the basement if would be sourrounded by fire.
Another one had a big room poured into his basement foundation in the corner with a concrete roof and gravity drains around the foundation and in the room.
Both had electrical and both still kept gun safes in there for the higher dollar and prized guns.
I hope to be able to build a house with a vault some day, getting tired of buying gun safes
Another one had a big room poured into his basement foundation in the corner with a concrete roof and gravity drains around the foundation and in the room.
Both had electrical and both still kept gun safes in there for the higher dollar and prized guns.
I hope to be able to build a house with a vault some day, getting tired of buying gun safes
W.E.G.
Member
Oh, what the heck.
No half-measures!
No half-measures!
gearchecker
Member
You can line the entire vault with 2" foam, glue sealed at every joint to moisture proof it, and then put in a radiant heating floor in it. The floor will be a dry heat source and the room will remain heated so it won't draw any moisture on the colder winter days. A radiant heated floor for a space that small will propbably cost less than a few hundred extra bucks.
Having a built in vault will be a huge resale feature.
Having a built in vault will be a huge resale feature.
CoRoMo
Member
If I could do it over again, I'd have put in a vault. Roughly the same price as a couple mid-range safes.
waterproofing
There is a product made by UGL called "DRYLOC" which is a latex based waterproofing paint. It is very heavy bodied, fills in voids extremely well, and is a highly reflective white color. Two coats will go a long way to remedy any water problems. In bank vault construction, an aggregate that is extremely hard (therefore resistant to cutting by carbide bits) can be formulated into the concrete. I'm thinking they use carborundum. Just make sure you have your electrical conduits roughed in before you pour it.
There is a product made by UGL called "DRYLOC" which is a latex based waterproofing paint. It is very heavy bodied, fills in voids extremely well, and is a highly reflective white color. Two coats will go a long way to remedy any water problems. In bank vault construction, an aggregate that is extremely hard (therefore resistant to cutting by carbide bits) can be formulated into the concrete. I'm thinking they use carborundum. Just make sure you have your electrical conduits roughed in before you pour it.
Only thing I can add is, make it big. Bigger than you think you'll ever need, as big as you possibly can. 10x10? Please. I'd want it at least the size of an average 2-car garage. Sure as hell, you'll want to be able to lock up all kinds of things someday.
a1abdj
Member
I have several photos on my website showing vaults, both modular and cast. Each type has its advantages.
A 12" pour (including ceiling) will let you hang a pretty serious door. If going this route, you really should pay a pro to do it. These are not the types of doors that you want to buy off E-bay and install yourself.
Lighter doors can be do it yourself projects if you're careful. 12" of concrete is a bit overkill for most lighter doors. 8" to 10" is more common. The lighter doors are usually set up to open from the inside, whereas bank grade doors are not.
Doors built by gun safe manufacturers are not much more secure than the gun safes that they build. It's not worth putting a tin can on a 12" concrete room.
So far, my record is a 40' x 40' vault inside of a residence.
A 12" pour (including ceiling) will let you hang a pretty serious door. If going this route, you really should pay a pro to do it. These are not the types of doors that you want to buy off E-bay and install yourself.
Lighter doors can be do it yourself projects if you're careful. 12" of concrete is a bit overkill for most lighter doors. 8" to 10" is more common. The lighter doors are usually set up to open from the inside, whereas bank grade doors are not.
Doors built by gun safe manufacturers are not much more secure than the gun safes that they build. It's not worth putting a tin can on a 12" concrete room.
So far, my record is a 40' x 40' vault inside of a residence.
SSN Vet
Member
two thoughts...
One large advantage of building the "room" at the same time you build your house is that it will be easy and cost effective to plan concealment.... I'd suggest hiding the vault door behind a generic looking swing out exterior six panel door with a good lock set on it. This should only add ~$200 in materials and will hide your vault door form curious eyes.
Consider making the room large enough to also function as both a safe room & tornado shelter.
One large advantage of building the "room" at the same time you build your house is that it will be easy and cost effective to plan concealment.... I'd suggest hiding the vault door behind a generic looking swing out exterior six panel door with a good lock set on it. This should only add ~$200 in materials and will hide your vault door form curious eyes.
Consider making the room large enough to also function as both a safe room & tornado shelter.
Consult with some concrete experts. I worked construction many years, and trust me they can make it do just about anything they want. They can make it water proof which keeps water from wicking in which is what cause most moisture problems in basements. They can also cause it to set up underwater, and anything in between. The options are many and varied. Check into it with an expert.
CoRoMo
Member
Holy friggin' smokes!! That's larger than the main floor of your average house!!
a1abdj
Member
With 20' ceilings, so I supposed technically they could have added a floor giving them 3,200 square feet of floor space with 10' ceilings.
a1adbj said:
WOW! What size is an average gun vault? What size would you recommend for a gun vault/tornado shelter? I think along with most people here this is a part of my future dream house. Always good to hear from an expert in the field. Thanks.
Phatty
Member
Just make sure the vault does not share an outside wall. Don't want anyone to get any ideas about using a vehicle for a smash and grab.
This is a good idea if the vault is going to be in a fairly visible location of your house or garage. Nothing peaks the interest of a would-be burglar more than the sight of a huge vault door.
sithanas
Member
I'd hate to see the vehicle involved in that smash and grab. I can't imagine there'd be much left of it with 12" concrete walls.
Just One Shot
Member
+1 on making it big enough to use as a safe room from home invaders or a tornado room. After all, your family is worth more than your guns.
Cosmoline
Member
I would take the opportunity to consult with a professional in these matters and see what your options are, plus the costs. It may be that a hardened basement will work, while still incorporating the ventilation system, pumps and other services.
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