Advice for new and would-be .500 S&W Magnum shooters...

[John Ross]

I keep getting emails from people interested in the .500, asking me what to expect from this gun.

I never want to talk down to anyone, but it concerns me that some of you may not realize what you are in for, if you have little to no experience with heavy recoiling magnum revolvers. By "heavy recoiling," I mean something with MORE recoil than a factory .44 magnum round out of a 48 ounce gun. If you've been shooting a 329 with magnum rounds, you can stop reading...

Below is a vid of one of my customers shooting my .500 alongside a 5" full-lug .460. In the .500, he is shooting a 300 grain Hornady factory load going about 2000 FPS. He is an experienced magnum shooter and knows what he's doing. For him, recoil with this load is quite manageable, even one-handed...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZnJMhZunw4

Below is a guy shooting a factory 3 1/8" barrel (4'' with compensator) .500 with a 700 grain round at 1050 FPS from Ballistic Supply. He has no experience with handguns more powerful than .44 mag, and the heavy recoil startles him. The barrel goes slightly past vertical. BTW the 700 grain bullet likely went unstable in 30-60 feet out of that gun.

http://www.youtube.com/user/1994pears1993#p/a/u/1/fjmtUFrFBc4

Here's a vid in slo-mo of a kid (meaning half my age) shooting one of my guns with a 500 Hornady factory load. He needs a better stance and technique, but it was his first try at the .500, and he didn't drop the gun or let it hit him in the head...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFFMvpsKl90

Next, here's a girl "doubling" a factory 8 3/8" .500. I have personally witnessed this twice with two of my students. The gun recoils enough to compress not only the rubber grip but the palm fat in your hand and push the gun and trigger away from your trigger finger, letting the trigger reset. Your brain is still telling your finger to put pressure on the trigger, and you fire the gun again, usually straight up. Use a firmer grip. Although the gun doubles on her, she maintains her stance and the gun comes nowhere near hitting her. A firmer grip and she'll shoot the gun like a champ.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4OE78spknk

When reports of these "doublings" first came out around June of 2003, S&W shot some extreme high speed footage of what happens when the .500 fires. Here's S&W engineer (and chief .500 designer) Brett Curry firing the 500 one-handed. The vid starts just as the primer has ignited the powder. Watch as the gun recoils ALMOST enough to reset the trigger. The gun initially moves straight back, compressing both rubber grip and palm fat. The clip ends before the muzzle even starts to rise. We are looking at about five milliseconds span of time in this clip. Note that he bullet passes the B/C gap at :02 and exits the muzzle at :06.

Here's the shortened and slowed-down section of the S&W vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s37ZTy4hLUU

And here's the entire original S&W vid that gives an even better view of the trigger almost resetting:

http://www.youtube.com/user/dwebb210#p/a/u/1/q2joba9pbZw

And last of all, here's what happens when someone with no experience with heavy recoil gets turned loose with a .500 by some idiot boyfriend. Note that this girl is about the same size as the young woman in video #4, but her technique is all wrong.

When newbies get excited at seeing the .500 and want to shoot it, here's what I do: A cylinder out of a K22, then a K38 shooting wadcutters, then regular .38s, then a Model 27 with magnums. If they're still in, then a 6 1/2" M29 with 10 Unique/250 Keith. Still game? 25 296/250 Keith. More? 5" .500 with a 550 over a case full of Trail Boss. Still with me? 550 over a case full of 4759 for 1325 FPS. Most women and some men have had enough by then, but a few have gone farther, including one woman who made it all the way to the end, 725s @ 1250. My rule is you can quit at any time, but you can't go up until you finish the cylinder you're on. That's how I do it.

Anyway, here's the vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQI-zWdZAGk&feature=related

Use a crush grip, extend your arms and lean forward with one foot farther to the rear, and work up to the heaviest loads gradually. Don't EVER shoot this gun with a loose grip and your arms relaxed.

Be careful out there...
__________________
JR, the 500 Specialist

 

[CraigC]

If you haven't mastered the .44Mag or an equivalent, you really have no business slapping the trigger on a .500. Unless you just wanna make a bunch of noise, thinking it makes you look cool at the range.

 

[trav]

I am not a gun pro, but I have shot a 500. I am not sure of the loads I was firing. My handling of the gun was fine, and I didnt smack myself with the gun.. Thinking back on it, I could have probably had better form, to avoid the high kick I got.. but it was my first time shooting something this size, and I only shot it once. The amusing thing from our excursion was that the owner of the gun had a single pair of ear plugs. I grabbed a handful of toilet paper to stuff in my ears (something is better than nothing). The first guy to shoot the gun was MAJORLY hung over, and to boot he refused even the TP. It was almost like watching a guy effected by a flashbang.

I think the SOBs who give a gun this size to their GF's, or friends, without giving them an idea of what to expect, or how to hold the gun should be slapped around.

 

[Smaug]

These guys who give those guns to their ladies don't realize they are ruining the chance to ever have her come shooting with them again.

My wife has shot all my handguns, ranging from 22LR to 44 Magnum. She prefers 22LR 95% of the time, but she can shoot a 9mm pretty well. She'll occasionally shoot a light handload out of my Redhawk or a 45 ACP, but she has to be feeling adventurous that day.

I'm happy to say I haven't ruined it for her, like that chump certainly did.

 

[Smaug]

Also, to add to John's post, I recommend renting one before buying one.

Oh, and keep a slight bend in the elbow, if you don't want a sore shoulder at the end of the day. (still keeping muscles tight)

 

[CraigC]

These guys who give those guns to their ladies don't realize they are ruining the chance to ever have her come shooting with them again.

I agree 100%. I'm baffled that some intellectually challenged men actually think it's funny to hand their wife or girlfriend a gun to shoot that could potentially hurt them. Forever guaranteeing that they will never want to shoot again. Stupidity in its purest form.

 

[Prosser]

First off:
John Ross, thank you for posting here. You are widely recognized as one of the experts on the .500, and, it's great to have you post.

I have a few heavy recoiling guns. I was at the range, and the RANGE MASTER asked to shoot my .475 Linebaugh, with 400 grain bullets, at 1350 fps, 7.5" barrel. I guess he'd been watching pictures of John Linebaugh on his website, since he shot it one hand, like John does. The gun wrapped around his head, and, the hammer came within about 3/4" of ending up in his ear.

I will NEVER let another person shoot my big guns, unless I know them VERY well, and, I'll start them with something lighter.

I like the shortened version of the .500, the .500JRH, and have a LOT of the 440's at 950 fps. Great starting big gun load. It gets to be a handful with the 430's at 1350 fps.

I know a friend with awful, incurable nerve damage, caused by constant shooting of full house .475 Linebaugh loads. There is a point where the guns
are a threat to your health, with over exposure.

Anyone letting someone shoot such a gun is opening themselves up for a lawsuit.

 

[bergmen]

Thanks John!

Thanks for posting this. I don't have a .500 but a brand new .454 (SA) that I just loaded the first group of rounds for.

This is great stuff.

Dan

 

[Loosedhorse]

John--

Not to say the obvious, but some of this is going to have to do with which .500 revolver and which load.

The Smith .500 ES or Taurus Raging Bull snubbies, with 500gr full power loads should provide a near-religious experience for those interested. I leave that to them. However, one of the Smith PC 10.5 inch beauties with 275gr bullets--or even .500 Special ammo--will actually supply recoil below what most expect from a .44 Mag.

So, my advice with these revolvers is not to stay away, but to be aware of their potential and start with light loads.

And that, for almost all uses, a .44 Mag is going to be less expensive and all you need.

Anyone letting someone shoot such a gun is opening themselves up for a lawsuit.

Well, to a degree you're open to lawsuit if you let anyone shoot any of your guns. I've enjoyed showing folks some of my higher-recoil guns. My favorite introduction is a .460 3.5 inch, with each charge hold loaded differently. Start with .45 Colt cowboy, then progress through .45 Colt SD, .45 Colt hunting, .454 Casull, and end at .460. I provide a demonstration, instruction--and gloves! Then I reload the cylinder and tell them to stop when they want. Most stop after #3--but a few make it all the way through, with everyone smiling.

Be a careful, prudent ambassador, but don't pass up a chance to show the right shooter the joys of such revolvers!

 

[clancy12]

So, my advice with these revolvers is not to stay away, but to be aware of their potential and start with light loads.

Well put. I recently bough a 500 and I handload my ammo so I started out at about 44mag levels with light bullets and have started to work my way up. I don't know if I'll get all the way to full bore loads in the near future but at least this way you can get accustomed to the recoil without jumping in the deep end right away.

Notice I said handload my ammo, not reload.

 

[Prosser]

Speaking of loading:

At what point do you find the recoil increase really takes off?

I can't help but think that a 350-440 grain bullet, at somewhere between 950 fps and 1350 fps is enough for everything but elephant.

Anyone remember what Otto Candies was using on his elephants?

Here is what a 425 grain bullet at 1350 fps does to a buffalo:



Pictures from JRHADVGS.

In other words, what loads do you recommend as starter loads, what powders, and, is the big case that easy to load down?
In trying to load for the .500 Max, and even the lil .500 Linebaugh, I've noticed pretty extreme velocity variation with minimum loads. Same with the
.475, but, some of those might have been primer related.

 

[John Ross]

Trail Boss at 100% loading density or a bit less, 400 grain or lighter bullet is a good place to start. Switch to 4759 loaded the same way, and a heavier bullet, if you want more.

 

[bluetopper]

Mr Ross,

Thanks for the info and your time and trouble of posting it.

I have been shooting/reloading the 500 a lot now for a couple of years but only with my H&R Handi-Rifle which I feel is an awesome platform for this cartridge, plus being inexpensive. I have yet to shoot the 500 from a handgun and have no reservations in doing so. I started out using AA4100 and W-296 powders and had great results with them but I think I like loading with IMR-4227 better. Same performance at least with less sharpness of recoil. Hard cast lead gas check bullets is all I use with no leading at all even at 2200fps. What powders do you recommend at each end of the bullet weight spectrum?

 

[BADUNAME37]

In my opinion, anyone commenting with laughs on those videos of people getting hit by the massive recoil of this gun (or any gun, for that matter) need some more education in Firearms Safety and Safety in General!

Shooting is serious business, whether it is a .410 that a five year old may not be able to manage or a 500 Magnum that even seasoned pistol shooters could not manage with certain loads!

To laugh when someone gets injured is sick.
Any injury -- and period of time the gun is not in total control by the shooter -- is something that could end up killing the shooter and/or bystanders.

To laugh at these videos would be akin to putting a 14 year-old behind the wheel of a Formula One Race Car then laugh when s/he smashes the wall.

Yeah, real funny stuff.

I am not putting anyone down here, I am just making an observation of the number of people who do post these videos, then they think it is a riot when someone has a front sight impaled into their forehead. I guess these people who laugh are the same ones that would stand and laugh if they were on a construction site and happened to witness someone accidentally losing a hand, arm, foot or leg!

Funny?

 

[Clark]

I have been shooting an S&W 29-4 44 mag 24 gr H110 240 gr JHP for 14 years, and that is just about the right recoil for me.

So I have not bothered to buy a 454 Casull or a 500 S&W, because I would just down load them to the right recoil.

 

[hardluk1]

Some one find a video of some guys finger cut off by the gasses comeing out in front of the cylinder. The 460 and 500 or great for makeing dubs of full lenght fingers.

 

[BADUNAME37]

I don't believe that actually happened. I remember the incident, the guy had like a .460 and he was in a hunting camp, shooting out of a broken window from what I remember.

I think the question was - did he actually get the finger blasted off, or did he get cut in a major way and just so happened to be using this big pistol?

From what I remember, there were shards of glass involved and a broken window. That is all I recall of the incident.

I could be wrong, I have been wrong in the past and I will be wrong again!~

 

[Prosser]

Kind of funny when you think about it. In the early 80's Ross Seyfried, and Dick Casull pushed for guns capable of rifle ballistics, in handguns. They have their place. Still, I don't go out and shoot 100's of rounds of 458 Lott at a time, nor would anyone think I was a girlyboy if I only shoot 20 rounds a time, at the range.

That said, after Mr. Ross gets done with one, you end up with a very powerful, near rifle ballistics type handgun. I LIKE the long cylinder, if the guns S&W made were a little lighter. The Ruger Maximum to me is pretty much ideal for power vs. weight of carry.

That said, I'm not really sure there is any reason to go past 420-430 grains at 1350 fps. This is pretty much the .475 Linebaugh/.500JRH loadings. At about 40 pounds of recoil, in a 3.2 pound gun, it seems pretty much ideal for the perfect packing gun.

Couple of hunters swear by the .500 Linebaugh, 525 grain bullet at 1100 fps.

Seems that the effect on animals of these big, heavy bullets is not really calculated well by ballistic ft-lbs, etc. Another group of friends swear these
guns hit, and kill like a 375 H&H rifle.

I wonder if common sense, keeping the loadings for these calibers at max of around 40K pressure, much like the .44, doesn't cure a bit of the absurd recoil you can get, and, make the platform size more reasonable?

 

[Zundfolge]

So John, you're sayin' that something like this is probably a bad idea then?

heh.

Anyway, several years ago I got to shoot a .500 and .454 side by side and while I enjoyed the experience, I settled on a S&W 29-2 when I decided to get a big bore revolver. I did find the 454 to be harsher shooting (but the difference might have been the guns, the 500 was a S&W, the .454 was a Taurus Raging Bull).

 

[Prosser]

I've shot a snubby like that with .500JRH, 440 grain bullets at 950 fps, and,
425's at 1350 fps. I can't IMAGINE needing or wanting anything more, and, the recoil wasn't that bad, due to the weight of the 500S&W X frame. Also, there is a real advantage, in that with heavy bullets, over 350 grains, the bullet provides enough resistance to create considerable pressure, using slower powders. In other words, you don't really loose as much velocity as you do with lighter bullets, in lower calibers.

 

[Action_Can_Do]

Prosser
It seems that the 475 linebaugh is fond of injuring shooters. I've wrenched my wrist pretty badly on mine (completely my fault) and it's actually drawn blood on a friend of mine. My 500 magnum isn't nearly as bad as the gun is quite a bit heavier.

 

[gbran]

[/IMG]

 

[steelpony]

I have the 4 inch S&W 500 mag. ... agreed with above posts with working your way up safely & having some "Respect " for the hand gun. I started years ago with .44 and moved into .454 casull,... quite a snappy critter in its own right. I also started with "feather weight " factory loads for my 500.... good way to get some reloadable brass and also somewhat ease into the feel and handling of the revolver. From there I moved up in bullet wieght . I have to admit the .500 can become addictive and darn expensive to shoot. I liken it to having a rhino for a pet in my collection , it deserves a lot of respect and I certainly enjoy shooting it..... however, don't underestimate the raw power of the beast.

 

[OldStumps]

I have a Taurus RB 8-3/8 in .454. I got it two years ago because my brother owned a BFR and after one box of Freedom Arms 240 JHP he sold it. Gave me the other two boxes and I went looking for a gun. Wanted a Super Redhawk snubby but wound up with the RB. The first box of ammo was enlightening. I had shot a Model 58 Smith in 41 Mag for most of my adult life. Owned a TC .44 Mag with shot barrel and the lightness of that with hunting loads literally stung hand. With the RB and the FA ammo it took magnums to a whole new level for me. Primer flattening and hard extraction said these were very heavily loaded rounds. I got a welt on the web of my hand that remains a small lump to this day when I shot 30 rounds in one day.

Now I wear a golf glove with a piece of heavy carpet padding in the palm when I shoot (the gel strip on the back of the grip seems pretty worthless to me). The second box seems a little nicer although my shoulder sometimes aches a bit after a lot of rounds. I also shoot lots of Hornady XTP and Magtech SJSP.

With all that, I shoot this as often as I can. And I simply won't let anyone else shoot it. I certainly wouldn't let my wife or anyone I consider a friend let fly with anything more that .45LC. And I've found a good source for the latter in FMJ so I am shooting more of that too.

Ammo costs almost twice as much per round for the .500 I think. This is expensive enough for me.

Great fun and lots of wisdom in this thread. The guy in the last video on OP's first post pretty much shows he doesn't love his wife/GF or even seem to like her much.