Advice on an M4?

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Nah I don't play with the trolls anymore. :)

But I will leave you with an example of what DPMS QC can be like.
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Had 2 guns doing this.
 
My favorite complete rifle on the market right now is the Daniel Defense M4. I highly recommend you look at one. I haven't shot one yet, but I can tell you that the build quality, finish, and construction are top flight. If you really search, they can be had for around $1,110-$1,300. As far as the front sight goes, a good scope on a small riser will make that disappear.

I like BCM's stuff, but I have yet to price a potential build from them that puts me in under $1,200. If you really go mil-spec and high quality rails and stocks, it adds up quickly and may not be nearly as big of savings as some imply. It depends on your needs.

FWIW, I think it can sometimes be expedient to get a respectable mid-range rifle and custom it out from there. You get a real warranty and become familiar with the rifle and can spend additional funds as you want to over time. Nothing wrong with that. In this case, Bushmaster, S&W and Stag are where I would start.
 
If it's a BCM upper and BCM lower, isn't it a BCM? ;)

At the $1008 figure, it would have the Colt stock, Daniel Defense hand guard and I'd be putting in my own extra M16A2 Colt bolt carrier group. So it comes in under $1200, which is still more than I was talking about spending yesterday (why does it always work that way?).

The Daniels Defense rifles are really excellent, but their price is straying a little too far from my already-stretched budget.
 
You could always get the stock handguards now and save up for the DD rails down the road. That would bring the total down to about $850.

Have you checked out BCMs sales website? Even have a sale going on now on uppers.
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/

With a standard handguard, you using your own BCG and the lower from G&R its right at 800 buck.

With a DD EZ Car rail it would be $925. Thats DDs not free float rail and they are for sale on BCM for $148.

Use the Spikes lower and it drops another 75 bucks or so.

I would have no qualms purchasing a BCM without handling one. The ones I have handled, a limited few, have been superb.
 
OK, I'm going to send this off in a different direction.

What about Les Baer? There's a Police Special for sale in the classifieds forum for $950, which seems like a good price.

As good as BCM?

Sorry for asking so many questions. In the past I'd just buy Colt and forget about it.
 
Les Baer are not that great. In my opinion he has an undeserved reputation in the industry.
For instance people noticed that they put the Castle nut on backwards. Instead of simply saying oops and correcting it the company proceeded to defend the mistake and claim it was the right way to do things. Not saying they are terrible but once again there are far better for the money. That 950 would buy you a far better.
 
I think you should assemble your own lower. You can get a complete lower build kit with a Magpul MOE stock for $150. The stripped lower should cost $100 or less, so that's around $250, plus you know how everything goes together if you need to fix or replace a part in the future.
 
my local gun shop sells a lot of les baer stuff, including dozens of his AR15s. i'd rather have a bushmaster/dpms/rra by far, even for the same money. i don't know who manufactures his quad rails, but i suspect their primary business is making cinderblocks.
 
IMHO, if your getting a flattop upper, don't get one with a fixed front sight. When I bought mine, my mentors told me that the front sight would never get in the way, and it was cheaper. Well the front sight always annoyed me. I eventually switched it out.
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If you're running an Eotech or Aimpoint with a lower 1/3 cowitness, the front sight isn't in the way. IMO on a carbine that might be used for defensive purposes, with an unmagnified optic, it's nice to have the front sight post there as a backup.

As to Eotechs, I personally like the 516 over the 512; it uses the same batteries as most weapon lights (CR123) and you can get them at Walmart.
 
...but i suspect their primary business is making cinderblocks.
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I'm glad there aren't any strong opinions here. ;)

Sounds like BCM is still the way to go.

As for learning how the lower operates by installing the internals, I've already torn mine down and put in a Milazzo Krieger trigger. Did a Timney on my Remington 700, too. It's a lot easier (and cleaner) than building a motor.

Down the line I'd probably put a different trigger in anyway.
 
Ummm Ruger isn't exactly known for reliability and Colt is about Quality of materials more than Pinpoint accuracy. I think I would refine the statement. Although I guess it is accurate as stated. just probably not what you meant to say.
 
I have a Daniel Defense M4 and love it. It's incredibly accurate and reliable (no FT anythings) with lifetime warranty. I only have a Surefire mounted on it right now but am saving for an Aimpoint. There is also good information on M4carbine.net.
 
There is also good information on M4carbine.net.
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There's good information there, here, and so many places elsewhere that I've been reading until 2 am the last couple of nights.

Daniels Defense is maybe $300 more than I can spend.** That $300 will just about pay for an EOtech. The M&P15 is a good rifle and, with the $100 rebate, I could get an MP15X (811008) for $989, set up with Troy rear sight and what appears to be a good quality hand guard.

It's still not as good as a BCM, from what I can tell.

One of my distributors is having a special on EOTechs, and is also including for free their own (read: cheap) fixed EOTech-style magnifiers. It's not something I'd have on all the time, and it's not a flip to side, but it would probably be something for shooting at 100 yards at the range.

Does anyone know how long the special on BCM uppers is supposed to last? Are the uppers and lowers readily available, or do they make a batch, sell them, and then are out of stock for months?

Sorry for so many questions, but it's weird to buy something $1000+ without ever having seen it.

**Edited to add: they also put "Daniels Defense" in big white letters on so many places on their guns that I think they should pay the buyers $300 for billboard advertising.
 
Don't confuse "mil-spec" with "quality". It is a common temptation, but the fact is that there are plenty of "mil-spec" rifles experiencing failures out there, and plenty of "commercial" rifles that aren't. Think of "mil-spec" more as a set of tests to check for manufacturing defects and some beefier components. If the bcg is quality designed and gas keys are staked, you are probably good to go for most civilian applications. Truthfully, for every mil-spec proponent who tells me that commercial AR's can't handle a "real load", I have just as many LE officers who would argue the opposite. That doesn't mean that commercial AR's are better, it just means that mil-spec isn't the only measure of reliability and quality.

Bravo Company makes a quality mil-spec product, but there is more that goes into quality than just meeting mil-spec. Fit, finish, and other intangibles are a part of it as well. For example, the M&P is one of the nicest finished and quality AR's I have seen. It isn't 100% mil-spec, but is definitely a high quality AR. Daniel Defense is fully mil-spec and excellent quality as well. The few Colt's I have been exposed to are fully mil-sec, but I wouldn't call them nearly as high a quality as a Daniel Defense or well finished as an M&P.

Buy the quality rifle that meets your needs and get as mil-spec as you can afford. Remember, you can customize as needed later.
 
If i were you i'd get a BCM upper and bolt carrier group. that should set you back about $600-$700. i would then get a stripped lower from spikes for around $100 along with their lower parts kit for around $100, and allocate around $150 for the stock and buffer tube of your choice. that's just me though ;)

as far as daniel defense, their rails are awesome, but i think that rifles are absolutely overpriced. you can do way better for the money. in some cases you can get a Noveske for about $200 more than some DD rifles and it would come with folding sights and double chromed barrel and chamber. for example, you can get this:

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-...ver-Daniel-Defense-p/bcm-urg-mid-16 ddl12.htm
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BCM BCG and charging handle, a pair of MBUS and a complete lower for the same price as that ugly monstrosity known as the DDM4.


lastly, don't listen to all of the DPMS, RRA, and bushmaster haters. I honestly think a certain member on this sight has a personal agenda against them. although they aren't top tier. they're not total crap either. the reason these company have high failure rates is because THEY SELL MORE RIFLES. i would wager bushmaster sells more AR's than most of the top tier companies combined. i have a DPMS that i've run about 2,000 rounds through without so much as a failure to feed. maybe i got lucky, i don't know. i only have mine to reference. every company makes a lemon now and then. i'm sure BCM and other top tier companies have lower lemon rates than DPMS or RRA. to think otherwise is silliness.
 
Don't confuse "mil-spec" with "quality". It is a common temptation, but the fact is that there are plenty of "mil-spec" rifles experiencing failures out there, and plenty of "commercial" rifles that aren't. Think of "mil-spec" more as a set of tests to check for manufacturing defects and some beefier components. If the bcg is quality designed and gas keys are staked, you are probably good to go for most civilian applications. Truthfully, for every mil-spec proponent who tells me that commercial AR's can't handle a "real load", I have just as many LE officers who would argue the opposite. That doesn't mean that commercial AR's are better, it just means that mil-spec isn't the only measure of reliability and quality.
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sing it sister! i couldn't agree with this more.
 
I can get the Daniel Defense M4 for $1150. I would consider that an excellent deal at this point. It is VERY refined. Now is a good time to get a factory built gun as prices are very good. Don't dismiss the M&P, either, as they are also very good firearms.

FWIW, while many will bash DPMS, Bushmaster and RRA, I have to agree that there is a lot of misinformation out there. They do not hit the milspec target, but they can be VERY good guns. There definitely seems to be a greater disparity between features on the Bushmaster guns, though. Many line up exactly with "the chart", but some are much more "mil-spec". If you go BM, look for a LE only marked gun. These seem to be better guns, with full M4 feed ramps and parkerizing.
 
I looked at an M&P at Academy Sports yesterday, and the fit and finish looked very good. I can't comment about the trigger or the chamber/BCG because the store policy is to keep the triggers locked (even when showing to the customer) and not allow the rifles to be opened. :rolleyes:

I saw a Colt sitting on the rack and asked to see it. The finish was outstanding, as good as my Benelli. Then I noticed that it was a .22 and the "finish" was plastic.

I was surprised that a similar Bushmaster was more expensive than the M&P 15, at least at that store.
 
I'm not a huge fan of the usual vertical foregrips (except on my MSAR) and just today (with a good amount of fitting) attached a Mako/FAB Defense MWG magwell grip to an M&P lower. I saw some photos of Israeli soldiers using them and it immediately made sense to me. I think I'm going to like it a lot. It keeps things nice and tight with my trigger hand grip. I'll know better when I shoot it. It might be something to look at.
 
Bushmaster all the way! it has Ruger reliability with Colt accuracy!
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Ummm Ruger isn't exactly known for reliability and Colt is about Quality of materials more than Pinpoint accuracy. I think I would refine the statement. Although I guess it is accurate as stated. just probably not what you meant to say.
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The last two sentences are funny, well done! :D .. and I kinda like Bushmaster...
 
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