Advice on being neighborly when it comes to shooting.

[daniel craig]

I had an experience today that I did not handle well so I would like some advice from the people here most of whom are older and wiser than I am.


So today I was out teaching a family member and their friend how to shoot. We live on 30 acres in a rural town and we have a large hill that was created from digging our pond that we use as a backstop for our firearms usage.

This is the first time this year that we’ve shot out at the property. I usually try to go to a range but because they were two other people and I couldn’t bring that many guests to the range I decided to go out to this piece of property. This property is owned by my family.

As we are shooting the neighbors decide they are going to walk over the top of this hill that we are using for our backstop to come complain to us about our shooting. Now these neighbors live about 500 or 600 yards away across a large horse pasture. They know where our driveway is and they know how to get on the property without having to come over the top of our backstop.

So they come over to the top of our backstop and start ripping into the new people I had there because they happen to be checking the targets while I was off in the tree line. They started yelling at us for bothering them and for bothering their horses. Apparently their horses got pretty spooked. They are definitely hippie tree hugging types and the lady was borderline crying and she was yelling at us. None of what we were doing was illegal… Actually scratch that… I let them shoot my handgun which technically in my state they would need a permit to do considering they’re over 21, so that part was unlawful. However shooting on the property at the time we were doing it is not illegal. We are not within the town limits and we are not at anytime of the day that could be considered disturbing the peace (5pm eastern time).


Me… Being an idiot… Told them that what they are currently doing is known as trespassing and harassment because we are not doing anything illegal. But if they didn’t leave the property I would call law-enforcement to have them removed for trespassing. Admittedly it was probably not a very nice thing to say and I could have heard them out and wrapped up our shooting for the day even though we only been out there for about 20 minutes to half an hour.

Needless to say my approach just made the situation worse it made them angrier because I wasn’t listening to their complaints. I generally don’t get angry and I’ve put a lot of time and effort into controlling my anger but I have had enough of these neighbors. I was especially annoyed that they came over the top of our backstop to come yell at us. Thankfully none of us were shooting at the time they had come over what have they been two minutes earlier we would have been.


How would you have handled the situation? What would you suggest I do next time?


Post Script:
I should mention that we have some history with these neighbors during hunting season because a year or two ago I shot a deer that ran into their property wasn’t allowed to go recover it and then was harassed over the phone the next day after they found it dead. Frankly I had forgotten about that situation until they brought it up while they were yelling at us.

 

[Robert]

I would have told them the same thing. You are trespassing, please leave my property or I will call the sheriff. Their feelings do not trump your rights and if you are shooting in a safe, legal manner, they can go pound sand. Especially after not letting you retrieve the deer and then having the gall to whine about it the next day. They want everything on their terms. The world doesn't work that way and you can't please everyone.

 

[Zerodefect]

Get off my lawn. Maybe call the cops.

They're cowards. You're welcome to shoot deer on my property. Anyone is. Just don't hit my truck or house. They should move back to the city.

The horses will get used to it.

 

[Old Dog]

Concur with Robert. If you were not shooting unduly early in the morning or later at night, considering you were on your own property and engaging in legal behavior, your neighbors were the ones behaving inappropriately.

 

[brunowbe]

Tell them to pound sand. Then find louder guns and shoot a lot more.

 

[JohnKSa]

First of all, the safety issue needs to be dealt with. If they can't or won't understand that coming onto your property without their taking proper precautions then they need to understand that they are never allowed to come onto your property. If they had come over (or around) the backstop while you were shooting that could have been pretty bad.

From there, you can work with them to the extent that they and you are both willing to compromise to reach some kind of an agreement. Not because you necessarily have to, but just in the interest of trying to be neighborly.

In your situation, I would start with seeing how they react to concessions along the lines of the following. I'm not saying to use this list, these are just examples.

I will restrict my shooting to daylight hours (decide the exact limits.)
I will notify you in advance when I plan to shoot so you can take measures to try to keep your livestock calm.
I will have the local LE come over to examine my shooting range and you can be present for the inspection. I will make changes to the range if changes are required to insure that it is safe.
I want you to understand that what I am doing is legal and within my rights as a landowner. I will go with you so we can talk to LE together to accomplish that goal.

If they aren't interested in talking about it or trying to reach some kind of understanding, then tell them that they must stay off your land in the future regardless of circumstances. That they must not contact you again with complaints regarding your legal use of your own property or the legal activities you engage in on your own property.

You can tell them that they are welcome to call LE when they have concerns, but that they should be aware that you're not doing anything illegal and that eventually LE will tire of their repeated baseless complaints.

 

[Barr]

Might be a brief bridge building moment to make them a loaf of bread or cookies and a hand-written note.

Something to the effect of “I realize that you feel uncomfortable but we are acting in a safe, controlled manner. Coming across the property unannounced creates a safety hazard. Please feel free to visit my driveway. All of our shooting will be done during daylight hours.”

The deer situation certainly colors the picture. Arguing w a fool while having firearms creates toxic environment (not because of you). Asking them to leave immediately was a wise decision.

 

[nettlle]

Call the county sheriff. Both us and our next door neighbors have out door ranges. We work things out.

 

[Dale Alan]

My only advice is to be the first to call the law . I have been through this , I found this old adage to work ."The best defense is a good offense" .

 

[daniel craig]

First of all, the safety issue needs to be dealt with. If they can't or won't understand that coming onto your property without their taking proper precautions then they need to understand that they are never allowed to come onto your property. If they had come over (or around) the backstop while you were shooting that could have been pretty bad.

From there, you can work with them to the extent that they and you are both willing to compromise to reach some kind of an agreement. Not because you necessarily have to, but just in the interest of trying to be neighborly.

In your situation, I would start with seeing how they react to concessions along the lines of the following. I'm not saying to use this list, these are just examples.

I will restrict my shooting to daylight hours (decide the exact limits.)
I will notify you in advance when I plan to shoot so you can take measures to try to keep your livestock calm.
I will have the local LE come over to examine my shooting range and you can be present for the inspection. I will make changes to the range if changes are required to insure that it is safe.
I want you to understand that what I am doing is legal and within my rights as a landowner. I will go with you so we can talk to LE together to accomplish that goal.

If they aren't interested in talking about it or trying to reach some kind of understanding, then tell them that they must stay off your land in the future regardless of circumstances. That they must not contact you again with complaints regarding your legal use of your own property or the legal activities you engage in on your own property.

You can tell them that they are welcome to call LE when they have concerns, but that they should be aware that you're not doing anything illegal and that eventually LE will tire of their repeated baseless complaints.

You bring up a good point about prior notification and I should do better at realizing that while I can do anything I want on the property, every action can impact someone else.

 

[JohnKSa]

Just to be clear, I wouldn't make any concessions until they agree to behave and talk with you rationally. If they're going to freak out and rush over screaming every time you start shooting, it's pointless for you to try to accommodate them.

 

[Steve S.]

Emotional, yelling, upset, threatening, etc. people do not handle silence very well - I have found that they simply do not know what to think of silence and a confident, calm stare - you have firearms, you say nothing, you show zero emotion, you just stare at them - they will begin to get very nervous, their anger will quickly turn into fear and they will walk away - they simply do not know what to do without a verbal response.
When they leave, you call the authorities and report the incident - you definitely want it officially recorded.

 

[twarr1]

Like it or not, in situations like this, In this instance, to these people, you’re representing the gun community. I’ve learned the hard way, getting in somebody’s face, or “getting louder guns” seldom is the best solution.
That said, there seems to be an increase of people that you just can’t reason with. In those cases, being the better person always works out better in the long run. Stand up for yourself but don’t let them drag you down to their stupidity level.
You do need to make your neighbors aware it’s irresponsible for them to cross into your property in that manner and you expect them to never do that again.

 

[twarr1]

Horses are a prey animal. They’re afraid of everything. Speaking from decades of experience, they’ll get used to it.

 

[Jeff62]

The JohnKSa advice is the best. It’s what I would do if I somehow managed not to go full red zone the second I was confronted by stupid.
It can take years to repair a relationship with a neighbor.
Good luck

 

[daniel craig]

Like it or not, in situations like this, In this instance, to these people, you’re representing the gun community. I’ve learned the hard way, getting in somebody’s face, or “getting louder guns” seldom is the best solution.
That said, there seems to be an increase of people that you just can’t reason with. In those cases, being the better person always works out better in the long run. Stand up for yourself but don’t let them drag you down to their stupidity level.
You do need to make your neighbors aware it’s irresponsible for them to cross into your property in that manner and you expect them to never do that again.
Now the hard-to-swallow part - a pile of dirt isn’t a proper backstop. God forbid, if a serious incident occurs, would you rather say in court you were shooting into an NRA backstop or a pile of dirt?
I’m sure there will be members who say a pile of dirt is fine, they do it all the time, been doing it forever, etc. My answer to them is; get some tracer rounds and see how many are actually stopped by the pile.

correction
It’s 20 YARDS thick, by about 20 YARDS high by about 40 feet long at the base. It’s had about 20 years to settle. 20 yards of dirt is PLENTY for a backstop by ANY definition short of artillery.

It’s like….triangular prism shaped if that helps you visualize.

 

[JeffG]

You were never going to please these people. They are obviously self centered, self righteous, and think less of you.

 

[1976B.L.Johns.]

I was especially annoyed that they came over the top of our backstop to come yell at us.

Just plain STUPID in in both of those actions!

God tells us to love your neighbors.
Maybe you could invite them over to try some shootin' and target practice?

I know from experience this is tough to do, as I have had a tough time with tree huggers where I live...

 

[Hartkopf]

You might need a barbed wire fence behind and well to the sides of your backstop. You’re neighbors are not very bright (and proved it) and YOU will have to be the one to dummy proof your property if you want to shoot on it. That or securely fence the perimeter so they cannot enter at all.

 

[film495]

not allowing you to get your deer says a lot. what did they do with it?

 

[daniel craig]

You might need a barbed wire fence behind and well to the sides of your backstop. You’re neighbors are not very bright (and proved it) and YOU will have to be the one to dummy proof your property if you want to shoot on it. That or securely fence the perimeter so they cannot enter at all.

We might just have to.

 

[daniel craig]

not allowing you to get your deer says a lot. what did they do with it?

Apparently they just buried it.

 

[Ohen Cepel]

Check your state game laws. Some allow for you to retrieve wounded game across property lines.

They sound like nut jobs which will only be happy if THEY are happy. Call the law the next time they trespass and take a hard line on their moronic/illegal behavior.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

I dont know about your state, but here we have what is called a tresspass warrant. Basically, you can request the Sherriff issue them a written warning that if they step onto your property again, they will be arrested.

I dont know if you want to go there with them, but its probably what I would do.

 

[1976B.L.Johns.]

Apparently they just buried it.

Laws are different from state to state.
Either one can ask permission to retrieve one's game or just go get it.

I am a bit rusty on MN laws pertaining to this as I have never had to worry about private property where we hunt.

Check out your law.