Advised a friend, did I miss anything?

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A buddy of mine is getting into 'prepping' for SHTF stuff. The thread is not about that, I know that subject is verboten.

He asked me, the closest person be has to a firearms expert, about getting a new gun in case he ever had to bug out.

He first asked about pistols, and after a basic primer on different types of actions (he's not well versed on handguns) he's considering the Springfield XD and the S&W M&P, in 9mm. He still wants to rent and test just to make sure.

I recommended a rifle, if he was really worried about SD/HD, and showed him a couple ballistic charts for various ammo, and overpenetration concerns with the same ammo.

But, things took a turn when I asked him how often he planned to practice. He said in all honesty, maybe once a year. This immediately changed my advice, which was leaning toward an M4 profile carbine. Without the dedication to learn an unfamiliar platform, and knowing he already had and was comfortable with his Mossberg 500, I advised him to stick with what he knows. I advised him to take a portion of his "new gun" budget and take a shotgun class. Since he still wants a pistol, a local training center offers a low light shotgun and pistol course, for $150.

He asked about accessories for his shotgun, and I advised him to keep it simple. A sling, fiber optic front sight, a fore end rail for a light, and maybe an optic and mount. Oh, and the 18.5" barrel.

Did I miss anything? I'm satisfied with my advise, but don't want to steer him the wrong way. I felt that dropping the money for a rifle he'd never become proficient with could get him killed if he ever had to use it in an emergency. Keep it simple, stick with what you know, was the gist of my advise.
 
No optic on the shotgun. Just one more thing to go wrong.

And then a fitting holster for the pistol. No 'universal' nylon ones.


Other than that, I think you done good.
 
More evidence that "prepping" tends to be more about collecting possessions than about being ready.

A trainer I know has this quote on his materials: "Ready is a state of mind. Prepared is a statement of fact. You need to be BOTH."

You gave him fine advice. About the best that you could do. He needs to train and practice, and keep his gear SIMPLE. More and more complicated gear will not get simpler and more intuitive to use under adverse and stressful conditions.
 
A sling is bad about hanging up on everything you walk past . I don't see a need for one on an HD shotgun. I agree w/ no optic , K.I.S.S. , the simpler the better . This especially for someone who doesn't intend to practice .
 
Absolutely agree with existing statements of keeping it simple.

Instead of an optic, I'd suggest iron sights for the shotgun if he feels the bead is not gonna cut it. A simple Williams black-powder aperture sight mated to a a burnt-out Scattergun Tech 870 front works wonders for 100-yard slug shots.
 
He has a good start with a Mossberg 500:evil: a good shotgun can be a devistating weapon:D and a pump gun can be reloaded on the fly.:neener: Some 00 buck shot and slugs and the zombies dont stand a chance ! :cool:
 
I'm not familiar with your carry/self defense laws but if anyone in your area teaches local firearms laws and self defense law I would highly recommend working that into the budget. If you are going to arm yourself you need to know the laws governing the use of that tool. Bad decisions made while the lights are out, like during a natural disaster, might come back to haunt you when the lights come back on.
 
If I had to "bug out" with anything, I would want minimal weight and maximum utility.

Really, I think a quality concealable handgun is a priority in that case. Your friend should plan to practice on a much more regular basis if at all possible.

Sticking to the shotgun he has already makes sense. There are 18" and 20" barrels available for the Mossberg or if he has one of the shorter hunting barrels already mounted, that might also work. There's not a lot of economic sense in investing in a new firearm for "prepping" if he's not going to get any use out of it except for holding down a piece of real estate in his closet. I'd also stay kind of light on accessories. In the past, I've felt entirely comfortable using a plain bead sighted 12 gauge Mossberg, but a decent light would be a good addition. Other than that, no extra gadgets. Spend the money on good buck shot instead.

Adding the handgun also allows two members of the family to be armed at once. I've had two M&P 9mm's. One worked fine but the other had ejection issues with some ammo. I like a gun to run with any decent ammo that will fit in the magazines, so that wasn't good enough for me. Not sure I'd try another one unless it was used from a friend and I knew it to be reliable.
 
Your advice is as good as he'll likely listen to. Something about horses and water comes to mind.
If he's not going to practice, regularly, with the ammo he intends to carry, he might as well have no handgun or rifle. His shotgun won't be of much use either.
 
KISS shotguns are the best! Iron sights if you can get them. 18 1/2" barrel,possibly a light on the forearm. I do suggest a sling so you can go hands free without setting it down.....also learn how to transition from long gun to handgun and back again...........i
 
Your advice was good. He should stick with the SG, mount a light and maybe sidesaddle and call it good. A decent polymer pistol like Glock, S&W or XD, some mags, decent kydex holster and training.
 
Emergencies; 72hr....

I live in a medium/mid size urban area with a daytime pop of approx 900,000 people.
I don't have a lot of prepper supplies or weapons but have been thinking about stashing a "get home bag" in my SUV or maybe having a 72hr or so pack/box with basic supplies & food/water for any declared emergencies or natural disasters.
I went thru 2 big hurricanes in 2004 & work in armed security details for 2 other major FEMA sites/storm recovery areas so I can tell you first-hand, it's no joke. :eek:
Katrina & Super-Storm Sandy should have woken people up to being ready; www.Ready.gov .
I want to get a Henry AR7 .22LR rifle & maybe a decent red-dot scope. I like the factory Mossy Oak camo, ;) . The AR7 is based on the USAF survival/SERE rifle for pilots & air crews in Europe mostly.
SERE is a US military term for Survive Evade Resist Escape.
3 days/72 hours seems to be enough time to get to a shelter or be able to regroup/get safe.
 
want to get a Henry AR7 .22LR rifle & maybe a decent red-dot scope.
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You may also want to look into the Marlin Model 70PSS for that type of survival .22. Based on reviews I've read their reliability is a bit better. Based on the Model 60 action and only a little over 3lbs.. No personal experience with either so I can't make a recommendation though.

Oh, and OP, yes, great replies. The long gun I would grab in those type of circumstances is my Mossberg 500 also, and I do train enough to be proficient with more modern "tactical" weapons. The simplicity and rugged reliability of a good pump shotgun makes it a great candidate.
 
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Thing is though, for that scenario, what does a .22 rifle bring to the table that something like an SP-101 or Glock 19 doesn't?

You're probably not going to need to hunt. If you need food, you'd be better off to toss in a couple bags of beef jerky and trail mix than you would to try and rely on hunting in a "get home" type scenario. I'd consider defense (in a low key way) a priority over trying to scavenge for food. I'd rather have a couple pounds of handgun and a couple pounds of water over four pounds of rifle that I'd have to assemble to use.

Not that the AR7 or Papoose don't have their uses. I think they definitely do. But for just keeping safe until the lights get back on, a 12 gauge that's already paid for and a few boxes of ammo is almost certainly up to the task, especially if the OP's friend adds a decent handgun.

I get it - we're gun guys and we like to be well-armed in any scenario with exactly the right tool. I'd also be more comfortable with an AR or AK, a stack of magazines, and a 50 caliber can full of ammo. And it's your right to be armed with that, should you be so inclined. But the Mossberg should do just fine.
 
Thanks for the replies.

A couple things to note I failed to mention earlier. He's pushing 50, and recommended a red dot optic because I'm only 34 and have a hard time finding a simple bead sight in the dark/ low light.

He says he's good with water, food and shelter, but felt lacking in security. He has a .243 bolt action, and the Mossberg, but felt the bolt gun might be too limiting as a SD/HD weapon.

I'm not big on slings for HD long guns, but if he needs to abandon his condo and bug out, or transition to a pistol (which is part of the class I recommended) a sling would be nice to have. I also showed him the shotgun scabbards, with the caveat that I've never used one and can make no claims for or against their usability.

I told him when he goes pistol shopping to let me know and I'd go with him, and go over some basic drills before his class (which may not even be til next spring). I plan on taking the class with him if we can swing it.
 
Yeah, a .243 bolt action isn't an ideal HD firearm. But it is a lot more potent than it might get credit for. I think you've got your friend on the right track. I will say that when you're checking around outside in the dark for whatever it is that just went bump in the night or woke your dog up, a pump action 12 gauge is comforting - maybe more so than a rifle.
 
Massad Ayoob said something regarding, sidearms & shotguns one time as regards to home defense. He considers the handgun "infantry" & the shotgun as "artillery". The handgun is far easier to manage while navigating a house, leaving a hand available for other tasks if needed. The shotgun is much harder to handle in tight quarters, but excels in delivering a devastating blow. Using the two in concert together makes for a winning combo.

I'd argue against a red dot for a shot gun, think tritium front sight and a quality mount and light instead. I see pro's & cons regarding a sling. Make sure it's easily removable would be my advice. Keep it fed with quality ammo and it should work superbly.

A duty size M&P or similar would be a great companion to his Mossberg. Night sights would be great too.
 
Agree with most = but

As to a 12 bore to "bug out" with, the biggest problem I see is WEIGHT of ammo.

I am not able to carry more than about 50 rounds for that caliber,that seems like very little ammo if you see the gun as a 'tool' to use for SD/HD and game getter [ most likely use ].

I see the .22 RF as THE round and that is not due to being anti - centerfire.

I am going with centerfire = BUT if limited to VERY little practice and a cost thing ,I say go with and stick with the K.I.S.S principal .
 
A .38 Special revolver might work better for him, especially if doesn't intend to practice and isn't a gun guy. Simple controls, reliable, and unlike a semi-auto pistol, he won't have to run hundreds of rounds through it to find the ammo it likes and make sure it feeds and ejects reliably.
 
A .38 Special revolver might work better for him, especially if doesn't intend to practice and isn't a gun guy. Simple controls, reliable, and unlike a semi-auto pistol, he won't have to run hundreds of rounds through it to find the ammo it likes and make sure it feeds and ejects reliably.
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Absolutely agree. A S&W K-frame revolver is a time proven simple, robust design. The K-frame is my choice due to it's larger size makes it easier to learn to shot well while not too large to conceal, has six rounds vs. five shot snubbies and there are a lot of choices in ammunition.

I suggest he take a hard look at used pre-lock S&W Model 10 with 4" barrel. Places like Bud's get police trade-ins that are in very good condition. Most of them are typical cop guns...finish worn from carry in leather holster while tight action from only being shot for qualification often just once a year.
 
Hoppes Love Potion said:
A .38 Special revolver might work better for him, especially if doesn't intend to practice and isn't a gun guy. Simple controls, reliable, and unlike a semi-auto pistol, he won't have to run hundreds of rounds through it to find the ammo it likes and make sure it feeds and ejects reliably.
Click to expand...
Most autoloading handguns made in the last 15 years are as reliable, and as simple to operate, as revolvers. Seat the magazine, rack the slide, and pull the trigger.
 
S&W R8 .357magnum.....

If he has the $$$ or can handle a big N frame, the M&P R8 .357/.38 might be good. He can add a white light or laser aimer to it. The elite ESU of the NYPD use M&P .357magnum revolvers for special ops.
It holds 8 rounds and can use either .38spl or .357magnum.
 
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