After Armegeddon on History Channel

[tipoc]

I'm also kinda in Jim's camp as well...

I've lived through multiple bouts of TEOTWAWKI situations. Several from preachers who figured out the "secret" codes in the bible. A couple of comets. One or two odd alignments of the planets. A couple of large earthquakes, fires etc. One war. Y2K and Y2K2. One flood. Several riots. Etc., etc.

In all of these cases I've mostly been impressed with how much folks stuck together and helped each other.

tipoc

 

[Gungnir]

Yes, but one can always buy extra parts, and some people do; however, many people don't. As much as I like Beretta 92s, I hear people complain that the magazine springs don't hold up very well. Some people swap out their springs every 5,000 rounds or 5 years. I'm sure this is just being cautious, but revolvers tend to be more long lived. Revolvers also tend to be more versatile and a .357 handles a number of loads from .357 to .38 Spc. (which is why many people consider it a great survival gun).

You have a point if you know how to re-time your revolver. If not then post society you're going to wind up with a handful of clicks. At least with a semi-auto you might be able to jerry rig something. Plus how does a wheel gun do when it's dirty, I don't mean fired and not cleaned, I mean with sand, mud, pine needles, wood chips, small twigs, rain, etc. etc. etc. In that situation I don't think I'd trust something with a partially exposed action.

Personally if this kind of thing happens, then I'm not too concerned, I'm not going anywhere, I have water, power (solar and wind), comms, firepower, all here, and as much game as you can shake a stick at, and whitefish and salmon in the rivers that are not going away anytime soon.

If it all goes down in the winter, then I might as well be living on the moon.

 

[c5_nc]

If I had to roam in the aftermath of a SHTF I would carry one of my ARs or AKs. You give up too much with a handgun. As far as someone seeing you carrying or not it could be good or bad. A rifle could scare them off or make make you not a target as much as the other way around.

 

[NelsErik]

Has anyone tried to carry all the crap they have listed? When I graduated from high school I spent 9 months in the Utah desert along the Colorado River with one of my mentors. I started that 9 months with all sorts of crap, after about a week I stashed almost everything except several layers of clothes that I could wear, a small knife, a couple dozen snares, a small tarp, a fire steel, two water bladders, a stainless steel cup, a couple large large spools of fishing line, lots of fishing hooks, and a 10/22 Ruger with a carbon fiber stock and Acculite barrel and a bunch of spare parts and 1,000 rounds of ammo. We mostly lived off of small game that I caught with the snares or by hand. Fishing was difficult. I did shoot a couple of small deer when we were getting hungry and couldn't get anything smaller. The problem with the larger game was that you had to do something with it before it went bad, which was difficult. The other problem was that it weighed to much. We never slept in the same place more than twice and generally kept moving. Really, the biggest thing I learned on that trip is that you really don't need a lot of stuff if you have knowledge and don't mind what you eat. We ate lots of stuff that you normally would not, like rats, mice, lizards, and snakes. I remember chewing on a piece of tortoise one night, it was terrible, but I was so hungry that I kept chewing and chewing... I never will forget that. Whatever we did get we pretty much ate the entire thing. We started just outside of Moab, UT on the river and ended up at Hite on Lake Powell. I'm writing the book about this trip...

I figure someday someone will find a nice GPS unit, a really nice North Face Tent, a backpacking stove, Dana Design backpack, North Face Sleeping bag, and a bunch of other gear that cost me probably $5,000 or more somewhere under an overhang in the desert along the Colorado River...

We have two more trips scheduled in the next five years, one more to the Utah desert but along the Green River and one up to Alaska.

If I could stay in spot or general area I would want to have .22 mag handgun and .22 mag rifle because I could have tons and tons of ammo. I'm hoping that the Kel-Tec PMR-30 is reliable!

 

[HammerheadSSN663]

Sig P229, AR-15 is all I would carry.

I'd leave my 12 ga., Remmington 700 .308, and 45 ACP at home. Too much weight.

 

[Nicodemus38]

actually the power grid would be a doozy. if the correct areas went back side up, the supply of fuel rods would be eliminated. after a while the reactors would use up what fuel supply they had. sure it would take a while for that to happen, but eventually the reactors would run out, or would have to be turned off do to lack of critical parts.
ive read in the past that it takes the entire power grid in a region to restart a nuclear reactor. if the interstate power grids collaps, and only one reactor in a 3 state radius, it turns off for good.

lots of city people think the big cities, la, vegas, ny, detroit, etc will send police into the agricultural areas to seize food sources every year at harvest to be brought back to feed the city people.
City people also think that the hicks of the farm country, etc, will welcome millions of newcomers the day after the end of civilization to be fed scarce food supplys in order to let their own familys starve to death to allow the city folk to take the land over.

 

[Meeteetse]

City folks would be wrong. . . . . .

 

[StarDust1]

For those of us in the northern states, ever wonder what would happen if the natural gas lines feeding us got knocked out by a severe earthquake in winter? 90% of winter heating comes from natural gas (I still have my own fuel oil). And even gas or oil furnaces won't blow without electric to the fans. My pump to my well runs on electric, too. Even short term outages cause us to plan for the primitive around here.

I have a fireplace in my home and a wood stove in the garage, further, I live lakeside in the far northern hardwood, fuel is abundant as is water, city folks are in a bad position if the whole thing comes tumbling down around them..

 

[SteveCase]

I keep hearing about the paralles with the fall of Rome. Rome Didnt just go poof and that was it. it was piece by piece falling apart. numerous raids and wars doomed it, and the when it was finally too weak to handle its empire it broke into two and was pretty much renamed and finally dissolved. also with the mayans we dont know what happened to them, a thousand things could have happened. they could have upped and left and formed new tribes/colonys/states.

Really if you think about it every great empire collapsed, but it was done piece by piece just like it was built. there was never one tragic event that right then and there sunk it. Ive driven through my town and looked around and always thought what would it be like if it was all gone, and I live in a suburban town on the edge of a big city, with a prison within walking distance. I would hedge my bets that things like 2012 wont happen and that America won't collaspe.

As for being able to survive, I would stock up the water purifying tablets and when those are gone boiling will have to do, firearms that are light enough to hump around all the time and some that are easily concealable, people will have to do things that they thought they would never do and they will act like you never thought they would. but building a small community and having numbers is important, so is security and power. Im betting there will probably be a mass migration to southern states, warmer and ability to farm all year round. but for me im staying north our fore fathers survivied since the the pilgrams here in new england.

as for the tv show it really was about playin on the fears of people and getting ratings. its entertainment and should be taking with a grain of salt

 

[bozar]

I watched that show as well, and will concur it was fascinating, and will also concur that father was an idiot.

Given their scenario and your restriction, I'd want the following:

1) threaded barrel scoped .22 semi-auto rifle (w/ suppressor!)
2) 12 gauge pump or semi-auto with extended tube
3) concealable handgun (.357 or .45 preferably, possibly just a simple .22)

If I could equip others in my group, I'd try to stick to the .22LR/12 gauge for the most part (adding some .22 pistols), but an AR15 or two and some more .357/.45 handguns would certainly be nice as well.

 

[Superfuzz]

First post...In the spirit of the post these are my choices.

I own all of these:

1. Ruger Mk .22/HR 9-shot revolver .22 (I own both of these, either is good...I prefer the HR)
2. Glock 20
3. Ruger Security Six


For an actual BOB I would drop #3 for a good Rifle/Shotgun.

 

[nwilliams]

There is a thread over at THR.US in which Michael Bane has made a few comments regarding his participation in the show. From the comments he posted over there it sounds like a lot of the self defense stuff he talked about was cut from the show.

Here's something he posted over there which I thought was pretty interesting...

I'll bet you guys can guess what was left out...the odd thing to me was that the crew (from England) seemed to have never even considered the self-defense issues inherent in that kind of doomsday scenario. I was suposed to do a 15-minute interview...instead, the crew cancelled air plans and kept me there for a couple of hours.

I told them that it didn't matter what you had, only what you could hold. You should have heard the incredulity when I talked about "major caliber battle rifles."

I hit the gun stuff rally really hard, because it's what I believe. I also said LA was barely inhabitable NOW; that even a few days into a disaster scenario, MS-13 would own the city. I suggested that as a person who lives in an area that people plan to bug out TO, we would NOT be waiting with open arms, and we have a lot of ammunition.

Michael B

My take on the show was that it seemed pretty anti-gun, I think I learned more about surviving in a post-apocalyptic world when I went to see The Road

 

[StarDust1]

As circumstances continue to degrade in Haiti, it should illustrate to perfection just what becomes of the "unarmed & unprepared."

 

[mec]

Rabbits are already gone in most areas-farmers, fireants and household pets. Squirrels arel largely urban dwellers. Would suspect that the Wild hogs, deer and other edible wildlife would be gone within a week.

 

[bozar]

Nature abhors a vacuum, i surely suspect (hope?) something furry or feathered (and therefore edible) will move in and fill the voids in the food chain created by a TEOTWAWKI scenario.

Rat stew, Crow pie, Coyote kabobs??

Having a nice garden or tiny fruit/nut orchard might serve you well if godless hordes don't steal it all from you. Perhaps a big box of old fashioned vegetable seeds (the kind that grow actual seeds for a 2nd generation!) and some gardening knowledge might be more useful in the long run then that 4th or 5th AR-15 in the back of your closet?

 

[Webbj0219]

Where I used to live there where hoards of canadian geese. These quite large birds are very anoying. They have zero fear of humans(which would quickly change after said event), They leave droppings all over the place and the block public walkways. etc... I used to wonder how good these geese would taste, if an event like that happened. I think that would be my first place to acquire food.

 

[Redneck with a 40]

Mini-14, Mossy 500 and my XD-40.

 

[Meeteetse]

Webbj0219: You don't hunt geese in NH I guess(?) As tiny Tim said, there is nothing like the Christmas Goose. Good eating and depending on the time of year, very plentiful, but they migrate.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

I could tell you about a plan to blow a certain pass in a western state simply to prevent an exodus of big city dwellers fleeing and heading into the Western Slope. Seems the locals weren't big on a whole lot of houseguests after an apocalyptic event......

 

[easyg]

Humans are social animals...they don't usually fare well when alone.

This is why humans have always created gangs, tribes, clans, nations, etc...




Humans don't usually like to stray too far from their social center.

This is why we have villages, towns, cities, etc...




In an "every man for himself" world, a lone man or a single small family will not survive for very long.
And their life will be nothing but misery.

A better way would be for a community to band together and create a new clan or tribe (so to speak).
Pool the community resources, create a basic structure of order, and create a common defense.
This is what the earliest humans did, and this is what our pioneer forefathers did as well.

The old saying is true...

United we stand, divided we fall.




As for the guns...

I would probably carry my Glock 22.

 

[Harvey]

After four days or so, and as no surprise, we are beginning to see and hear gunfire in the streets of Haiti. Presumably that gunfire will intensify as anarchy sets in, even by a fairly poor, unarmed society of three million cramped onto an inescapable and small island the size of Maryland.

This will be an interesting real-time test of the theories presented in the History Channel Documentary. I suspect that those theories will be spot on.

Woe is us.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

I'll bet gunrunners are doing great business in Haiti right now. An unarmed society finds a way to get armed as soon as social services, and law enforcement, break down.

 

[Boats]

Just a few points:

About the show itself, it featured a pandemic flu-like virus with about an 80% global mortality rate that burns itself out.

Upshots? There'd still be plenty to eat with a generalized population fall of 80% There'd be plenty of firearms and ammo too, even in California, if one knew where to trade or raid for it.

That mortality rate would also undermine the manpower and cohesion of alternate social structures like gangs. There'd be a period of near total anarchy where all social systems legitimate and illegitimate sort themselves back into some semblance of working order. MS-13 wouldn't own L.A. after a pandemic, they'd have to reconstitute first and then foray out from there. Ad hoc gangs of looters, as depicted, would be the immediate danger.

By the same token, there will be plenty of available rides sitting around and gasoline, but where can you go?

With a drop of manpower that large, all complex systems are going to crash. Power, water, medical, etc., are all going to go away for the foreseeable future. You don't want to live near a nuke plant. Yes, the fuel rods will go for about eighteen months, but chances are good that 1) you don't know how to run it; 2) It will go into automatic safe mode and into standby, and; (3) the coolant water pool the rods are immersed into will eventually boil off and a radioactive fire will begin to burn out of control when it does.

Society will reorganize among the survivors rather quickly. They depicted Henderson, Nevada as a representative example in the show of a hastily contrived "City State" having dispensed with general civil rights and imposing a rather strict martial law and rigid in/out access. Communities will reorganize where they used to always organize, at places where there is easy access to water that can be channel irrigated for agriculture and along lakes and seacoasts where fishing is possible and even rudimentary trade "shipping" even if by canoe, can be reestablished. Places like Phoenix and Las Vegas, which cannot exist without the massive power grids that make them viable, would be the absolute worst places to be.

Oh yeah the guns.

Today's choices:

Ruger 4" GP-100 in .357 Mag. Totally field strippable and I have a complete set of extra factory springs for this weapon since I put in some aftermarket Wolffs. Not magazine dependent. Fires two different calibers. Not load dependent for continued operation. Never seen one go out of time. Sights are adjustable for different loads. Still concealable.

Marlin 1894CB in .357 Mag. The cowboy assault rifle. An easy carry that shares ammo with the handgun.

Ruger 10/22. A light rifle that can be strapped to a pack. Can also provide high volume fire if it has to. Easy to maintain. Ammo can be carried in the 1k range without horrible difficulty, even if spread out among several ammo carriers. A sucking chest wound will still ruin a bad guy's apocalypse.

My choices will probably change tomorrow.

 

[LeontheProfessional]

Glock 22
Mini 14 or AK 47 depending on which caliber the circumstances would warrant.
Ruger 10/22. Shotguns are great but they don't allow for much ammo to be carried.

 

[bill.l.johnson]

Hunker down

10/22 = 5000 rounds
336 30-30 = 500 rounds
91/30 =1000 rounds
sks =1000 rounds
m1 carbine =500 rounds
XD40 = 500 rounds
SW 66-2 = 500 rounds
SW 642 = 500 rounds
P-11 = 500 rounds

My normal inventory.