Aggravating Police experience

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DontBurnMyFlag

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Ive read the new rules for strategies and tactics, and this is not a post about the ineptness of some police departments. I plan on being a police officer soon, and I have the utmost respect for LEOs. I just wanted to see if I handled a certain situation correctly and who was in the wrong and what else could have been done. It goes as follows:

When I was about 17, four of us took the PATCO speedline to philadelphia one night at about 8pm. It was my friend ryan, my girlfriend , mel, and I. We walk up to the train platform and see about 7-10 teenagers get on the train that we just missed. So we wait for the next train. As we are waiting a transit police officer walks by. (he was wearing jack boots...no lie!) He comes up to us and asks us who was graffiting on the bench. We said no one, we just got here.

He got aggravated and said that the train operator saw girls in black tank tops writing on the bench in marker. I interjected and said that there were girls on the platform less than 5 mins ago and they just got on the train. he told me to be quiet. He continued to say that the train operator saw girls in black tanktops writing on the bench. The girls we were with had black tanktops. I said, you should search them to see if we have a marker or spraypaint. He tole me not to say another word or he will arrest me!!! I had a knife on me so I quickly retreated out of his view and disposed of it. He and his partner took my g/f and melanie downstairs out of our view to ask them questions. So I am getting angry that the two officers will not listen to a word I say. So I called the police and asked if they could send another car down to the station so I can talk to an officer and complain about my treatment. They say no one is available and transfer me to the SGT. I am talking to the sarge and I said, look, I havent done anything wrong, I just want to know what I can do in this situation. I talked for about 30 seconds and ask for a reply. to my surprise HE HUNG UP ON ME!!! I did not lose the call, i was not in a no signal area, HE HUNG UP ON ME! So he obviously did not take me seriously. I was polite, calm and professional.

When it all ended, the cops admitted they had the wrong people. after all this, they still gave my friend a ticket for smoking on the train station!!!

I want to know, could I have handled this better? Were these cops just having a bad day? Were they on some sort of power trip? Should I have just relaxed, let them do whatever they want and then just deal with the consequences?

Well I was 17, and i didnt know what else to do. If anyone can provide any advice for a next time situation advice on what I could have done, please post it.
 
You were a kid

Of course, that make's you instantly wrong.

Just like I was instantly guilty when I was 16 and in a camro and got pulled over for the first time. The cop as best I figure clocked a firebird that wizzed past me (mine's an 87, the one that wizzed past looked to me about mid 90's...not exactly the same car) that was also white. So cop see's white camaro, so similer car, with a young kid in it. Chaching! I must be guilty because he can;t tell the difference between a mid 80's camaro and a mid 90's firebird. It was dropped to failure to obey a trafic sign. Something about doing me a favor because in PA any moving violation would have lost me my license. And failing to obey a traffic sign wasn't a moving violation and was jsut a fine.

Oddly enough, I never once (beside's that incident) got a ticket in my camaro. Only speeding ticket I ever got was in a Blazer. Also not my fault. Full size 89 blazer (AKA a friggin tank) going downhill at 11pm with a burnt out dashlight. Got that one lowerd to but it remained a lagit speeding ticket, just with a lower speed.

Cop's are great people. But supercops the world could easily do without.
 
1) The cops were given a description that matched the girls you were with.

2) They wanted to talk with the girls, not you.

3) They told you once to pipe down, but you chose not to listen and thus got another warning only this time you faced getting cited.

4) So you call a Sgt, who has no idea what you are talking about. The officers there are handling the situation and you want him to send a third because the ones there aren't listening to you?? "Click"

5) A third officer would have done what? He probably would have told you the same thing.

6) After talking to your friends the officers found them to be innocent. Yippee

7) Was your friend smoking? Did he know he/she wasn't supposed to be smoking and just said "screw it"?

8) Sounds like the only one having a bad day and an attitude was you.
 
"They wanted to talk with the girls, not you."

Given the story, the officer addressed the group, not the girl's. If an officer come's and address's me and my gf and then accuse's my gf and wont let me speak, I am not keeping my mouth shut either. And what is the cop going to cite him with? Failure to shut up?

"They told you once to pipe down, but you chose not to listen and thus got another warning only this time you faced getting cited."

And he is with those being accused, he has a right to speak up. Just because the cop doesn't like his answer doesn't give him the right to try and only get the answer's he want's. I am asked a question and choose to respond I have every right to answer it. And takign the girl's out of sight to question them? Sorry, aint happening either. The only reason for that is to try and get them alone to trick them into saying something. Not happening unless you place her under arrest.

"So you call a Sgt, who has no idea what you are talking about. The officers there are handling the situation and you want him to send a third because the ones there aren't listening to you?? "Click""

So cop is playing supercop and you call his sarg to complain about his conduct. Problem is??? Cop telling someone to basicly shut up when they are trying to respond to a question asked by the cop to the group and doesn't like the answer is bull. If some cop is playing supercop with me I will most certianly call and talk to his sargent.

"Sounds like the only one having a bad day and an attitude was you."

Supercop's tick me off too. The your a kid you must be guilty attitude of many cop's tick's me off even worse.

Agian, many cop's are great guy's. I have been friend's with several. But based on his story I'd be ticked off at the cop to.
 
I believe it has been said before that you should not argue with cops on the side of the street (or similar location). You won't win.
I am sure that you could have handled the situation better. I wasn't there but I bet you could figure out a better way. I doubt any officer on the phone is going to take you seriously based on what happened.

I guess you could have told him your taxes pay his salary. ;)

Those officers could have arrested you first, and asked questions later. That would have been much worse.
 
And then they can waste tax money on my public defender cause then, you aint heading another word from my mouth other then lawyer, charge me or let me go, or phone call.

I don't know about his tone (when answering). But if asked a question by a cop and you give a respectful answer, the cop has no right tellign you to shut up because he doesn't like the answer. When you ask a question expect it to be answered and don't get supercop on me cause you don't liek the answer.

Now if he was being smart assed he asked for it. But it didn't sound like that to me from his story.
 
I don't mean to be rude, but I have seen too many people who claimed they were in the right, were calm, collected, and nice, yet if you happened to be there, they were acting like an arrogant smartass. I wasn't there, but my own experience tells me to take the story with a grain of salt. That is just my assumption without knowing anything about the poster. Who knows.
If he was calm and reasonable, the officers were heavy handed, but just telling you to shut up is not enough reason to expect some officer on the phone to jump.
 
I understand where you're coming from. But I have experienced both my share of smart ass kid, and supercop weiner.
 
I’m currently 27 years old and live in a densely populated area. When I was between the age of 17 and 22 I got my share of undeserved grief from a couple police officers. I think being a young person in general can arouse a certain level of suspension. My advice is to just be polite and cooperative. For me these types of encounters were mildly unpleasant and resulted in a quick search or 5-minute lecture. On the bright side every officer I have met since I turned 22 was respectful and professional. It’s interesting how differently you are treated by society in general after you look a certain age.
 
Same old, same old...blame the kids!

Having been in education for the past 22 years, I can say that to be certain, some kids can be smart butts. However, other times it's just the lacking maturation.

This cop took a "learning opportunity" and screwed it up via intimidation. Sometimes 10 seconds of explaining/educating can net more benefit than coercive threats!

For what it's worth, NO cop should EVER walk off out of sight with young girls. I'm sorry, but that simply stinks of perversion. Unadulterated perversion!

God never promised that every cop would have the common sense of a hill of beans...and well, many don't.

Edited to add that most departments record their telephone calls. I would have been down to the police station the next day under "Freedom of Information", demanding a copy of the telephone call that allegedly implicated the ". . .girls in black tank tops". If it didn't exist, there'd be a fast lawsuit and an investigation into possible sexual improprieties!
 
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Well said doc

As Isaid, you are not taking my GF out of my sight. There is absoloutly nothing a cop need's to do with a young girl that can't be done in the presense of her BF. Out of earshot? Maybe, out of sight? Absoloutly not. Why do you need to take her out of sight? So you can pat her down and spend some extra time in places you know I WILL complain about? Try and trick her into saying something? You jsut strolled up and presto the girl's reported were in black tank tops and so is my gf. For all I know, you arnt even a cop. Did he do anything wrong when he was out of sight? Chance's are that he didn't. But Im not taking that chance with my GF.

As told, the cop acted inapropriate and supercop. But knowing most kid's, the cop probably wasn;t the only one to say something in a manner that wasn't appropriat.
 
As Isaid, you are not taking my GF out of my sight. There is absoloutly nothing a cop need's to do with a young girl that can't be done in the presense of her BF. Out of earshot? Maybe, out of sight? Absoloutly not. Why do you need to take her out of sight? So you can pat her down and spend some extra time in places you know I WILL complain about? Try and trick her into saying something? You jsut strolled up and presto the girl's reported were in black tank tops and so is my gf. For all I know, you arnt even a cop. Did he do anything wrong when he was out of sight? Chance's are that he didn't. But Im not taking that chance with my GF.
Click to expand...

Sorry my friend, but in the course of an investigative detention, I can and will take whomever I want to whatever vicinity I wish to conduct my investigation. Period. If you think that you are going to stop me, thats fine. Unless you are a legal guardian of a juvenile, then you have no legal right to do so. Any attempt to hinder my investigation can and will result in a charge of either obstruction, hindering an investigation, or failure to comply with a lawful order, depending on the circumstances.

Im not being a "supercop", Im doing the job Im paid to do. I cannot feasibly perform an investigation or interview with a beligerent boyfriend coaching the suspect. Make sense? If you feel I am going to "trick" your girlfriend into saying something she wouldnt say in front of you, you really ought to consider dating smarter girls.

Furthermore, you can trust that Im not going to feel your girlfriend up. Chances are Ive seen better and done worse, so she holds no appeal.
 
Next time you can roughly grab the cop's arm and yell:

DON'T YOU KNOW WHO I AM?!


Just kidding.


Any time I face any situation with law enforcement, I remember my lawyer's favorite saying:

"No one ever got in trouble by keeping his mouth shut."
 
+1 to what Patrol120 said. Should Lupinus try his suggested idea about directing the police as to how they can conduct their field interview, well, don't say that we did not warn you. Perhaps your friends and family will be able to bail you out promptly.

But I am sorry to say that his comments show a degree of lack of knowledge as to contemporary police procedures which are, I might add, as described in your post, entirely legal.

And he is completely ignoring the possibility that the responding officer did not want to feel him up instead. :)
 
yea, good advice guys. I was 17 and stupid as we all were once. I panicked because I was never in that situation before.

Advice I got long ago, and should have listened to, was "dont talk unless spoken too."

but hell, i was worried something was gonna happen and there was nothing I could do. I overreacted on a few levels. I keep thinking, when Im a cop, the last thing I want is four 17 year olds talking to me at the same time.
 
He who complains first is the Victim.

Woe unto him who appears unable to afford a laywer.

Everyone is a criminal, sayeth the Law; Police shall use discretion.
 
?

ok, firstly im EMS and work w/ LEO's every day, some of them good friends, and i have tons of respect for them. im also 21 and have had cops hassle me, until they see the i.d., then all of a sudden they realize im not a smart ass kid. BUT, those guys were way out of line. "out of earshot, mabey, out of sight, absolutly not" exactly! if ANYONE tried to take my girlfriend i would wrap him around a stop sign. "investigative detention" w/ a young girl??? try it sometime, and your sgt will most likely have you on horse ???? parade duty for the rest of your career, and thats if there isnt a lawsuit. for anyone young reading this, if it ever happens to you phone 911 and say some angry guy in a uniform just took your girlfriend and might hurt her. REAL cops will kick in those doors and get answers, right in front of you.
 
Clarification. I am not going to lay my hand's on a police officer. I do have respect for them, but I have my limitation's.

As I said, and was quoted, out of earshot is fine.

But if a police officer ask's me a question, doesn't like the answer and then start's accusing my GF of something she didn't do and then tell me to shut up, no way in hell will I be quiet. If he conduct's himself accordingly questioning her is fine. Questioning her when he is out of line is fine. But your damn right I will follow and say in range of seeing her. I'll happily stay out of earshot. Out of sight? Absoloutly not. Esspecialy with a cop with the attitude that one (it seem's) had. Never said I wouldn't let you question her. Said I wouldn't let you take her off somewhere alone if you had acted in the manner discribed. But someone who is rude and not handeling the situation in a profesional matter I am calling and requesting back up be sent to the train station because I am not sure this man is not really a cop and my gf is possibly in danger.

And that line about not needing to grope my GF was out of line. You may be a cop, and you have shown enough intelegence to demonstrait you don't play supercop. There is no reason to make such comment's, esspecialy to a real concern.

I have to obey your order's yes. But REASONABLE order's. Taking my gf off somewhere alone at night and telling me I have to stay put, esspecialy when you havn;t acted profesional since you finished your opening sentence and in a very conveniant situation with young girl's (young girl's in black tank top's, it's conveiant and broad enough to raise a flag esspecialy if he try's to get her out of sight alone), is not a reasonable order. Go ahead and arrest me for trying to ensure the safty of my GF though by such a simple act as keeping the two of you in sight durring a convieant situation for someone pretending to be police and getting us out of sight from each other, see how your department like's a lawsuit for false arrest and police misconduct.
 
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False arrest and police misconduct?? LOL.....why, because you don't like how the call was being investigated??

The police are investigating a call. They warned you once, you decided to ignore. Second time was given with a stiffer warning. They decided and can take your gf's away from you so as to keep you from interfering. This may be ought of ear shot...or sight. There choice, not yours. And....here's the kicker......it doesn't matter if you don't like it.

Being out of sight is not a reasonable order, says who? You? You don't have a choice in that matter. The officers can seperate everyone on the call if they want.

Sorry, your little threat of a lawsuit has no basis.
 
Say's who?

You come out of no where, with a very general very convienant reason, you act (based on the story) very unprofesional. You then demand for me to stay put while you take my GF off someplace out of sight.

Out of earshot is reasonable. Out of sight is not. If you want to arrest me jsut because I wont let you get out of sight with my GF because you act questionably go ahead.

I am not keeping you from questioning her and while directly questioning her I am not interupting. And I am not even staying close enough to hear if you are saying something that make's me want to step up and say something. I am merly making sure that you are who you say you are and that my GF is not in danger. You honastly think a DA is going to bother with that and if they do my lawyer can't get it tossed or a jury would actually convict? And oh yes, there will be misconduct and false arrest charges filed in that case. Obstructing is butting in when you DIRECTLY ask her a question. Obstructing is not allowing you to question her. Not saying yesamasta when you say stay and go off to be alone with my GF on such broad speculation is not obstruction. It is simply keeping you in sight incase you are not who you say you are and just want to get a young girl alone with you.

I am respectful to cop's who are even mildly disrespectful to me. You postition earn's you a certian amount of respect, if you piss that away that is not my fault that is your's. If you play supercop, as the cop in this story did, you do not get my respect. Agian I will not obstruct if you directly ask her a question, and under such circumstance's the two of you will not be out of my sight while im on a train platform and you take her off under a bridge or something. Try and do it for obstruction. It would NEVER stick, and at best never convict with a lawsuit for the department to deal with.

Would your department appreciate that headache cause you want to be supercop and expect me to say yessamasta when your acting like an ***** on a power trip?

EDIT-
Being out of sight is not a reasonable order, says who? You? You don't have a choice in that matter. The officers can seperate everyone on the call if they want.
Click to expand...
Seperate is more then reasonable. I have said several time's out of earshot is perfectly fine so you can question her directly. Hell you can place your question directly to her with me next and I will not say a word. But you address the group I will answer. If to question individualy the proper and profesional way is to go out of earshot. Not out of sight. Infact if you go out of sight alone with someone you are a moron and are opening yourself up to a possibly false misconduct complaint. "He felt up my breast's after taking me someplace alone while his partner kept the rest of our group on the train platform" Seperating is fine. Out of eyesight, esspecialy under reasonably questionable circumstance's, is not fine and not acceptable.
 
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Get used to it guys. In Amerika, the police can do anything they want. Anything. Your best bet is to avoid them like the plague, but if you encounter one, you have two choices: bend over and grease up or shoot, shovel, and shut up.

Every cop has sworn to uphold and defend the Constitution. That means no searches, ever, without a proper warrant or probable cause for an arrest. Not at courthouses. Not at airports. Not at traffic stops. Not on the street. My name ain't Terry. But the courts won't enforce this, so if you care about it, you've gotta enforce it yourself.

Isn't living in a police state fun?
 
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