AK-47 Under Folder or Solid Stock ?

[nalioth]

I have yet to see a DYI Saiga look as authentic as this one.

The world is large, friend.



Don't get taken in by the fancy words - it's overpriced for a rifle and a wooden box.

 

[Girodin]

I know its pricey but I would be completely incompetent at trying to covert it myself and would probably ruin the gun.

Honestly I'm not a super mechanical person by any stretch of the imagination. I have done a few and even the first one really wasn't to challenging.

If you can drill a hole, turn a screw driver and follow simple instructions you can do it yourself. As to ruining the gun, it would be extremely difficult to do anything to ruin the gun in the conversion process. You would likely have to deliberately try to do it.

It is a great first time DIY project. In addition to saving a boat load of money, you will have a good sense of accomplishment and come away with a much better understanding of how your gun works.

I have yet to see a DYI Saiga look as authentic as this one.

I'm going to have to dig up the thread where a I shot to crap the argument that a DIY job cannot look just as good or better than some of these more expensive guns by posting a number of pictures of home converted guns. Honestly though if all you want is a reliable gun that has the AK look I'd buy a Wasr 10.

 

[Ryder0001]

Ok, I have been convinced i could partly build this rifle. BUT if i was going to buy and covert it, it would have to look as close to this as possible, or no deal on the build! I would like to know if a simple joe like me could get this look... muzzle break to but pad. I would like it authentic as possible. Any one have any picks with home builds that look like this?

Let me also say they modified the Saiga to accept all AK mags.

 

[nalioth]

Let me also say they modified the Saiga to accept all AK mags.

That's what converting a Saiga is all about.

One last time: They're snowing you with marketing speak. They're not doing anything anyone else doesn't. They're just talking it up and shipping it in a "special" box.

 

[stubbicatt]

For shooting a sidefolder or a solid stock are probably your best bet. If you like the appearance of the underfolder, then that is your tick.

I like my underfolder. It is a Yugo M95A, which is without a doubt the best quality AK I have owned.

 

[Joe Demko]

WRT underfolder durability, how you treat them makes a difference. I have a Yugo that I can't remember the last time I shot. Given the amount of use it gets, it should last approximately forever. A friend also has one that he actually shoots. He treats it as a fixed stock, to all intents and purposes, on the premise that unnecessary folding and unfolding wears parts and loosens lock-up. Last time I saw his, he had a heavy duty zip-tie fastened around the stock close to the receiver. It was cinched up tight enough to "pinch" the stock against the sides of the receiver and did eliminate a lot of the play. He allowed that if he ever felt a pressing need to fold the stock, all he has to do is cut the zip-tie.

 

[wally]

You can get an ATI tactical stock that both folds to the side AND is a six position adjustable for length stock

Yup I thought this was going to be the perfect AK stock until I shot the gun with it on.

As you said, the hinge joint is really big (although I suspect its why it is so solid) but the reall killer is that big honkin' button sticking up in your face to slap you on every shot. It they had put the button on the bottom to push up instead of down to activate I'd probably like the stock.

Oh well, the pistol grip and hand guards that came with the kit give good service as does the M4-like stock sliding rear end with the adjustable cheek rest (its on my 7.62x39 AR) so I don't feel it was much of a loss to try it.

I really like the ~$15 UTG AK to AR stock adapter and the M4-style stock of your choice. Full forward when shooting with the irons or a red dot, and adjusted back for the right eye relief when using a PSOP style scope on the side rail.

 

[amd6547]

This Yugo M70AB2 was built from a Serb war surplus parts kit...fairly certain the underfolder was folded a few times before I got it...I keep it stored folded, and unfold it at the range. Exhibits a small amount of play, consistant with what you would expect for a folding mechanism, nothing more. Shoots pretty tight groups, the bottom target shows two five shot groups at 100yds fired through heavy rain:


Earlier, someone in this thread describes the AMD65 folder as "cumbersome"...I dont find that to be an accurate description at all. The AMD65 folder works great for me...sidefolding, easily deployed without the need for pushing a button, compact, and solid lock-up...ahead of it's time, and the weapon has the vertical fore-grip AR users are adding with aftermarket parts:


I really don't feel the need to Tapco-ize the AK...
Get a solid stock if you prefer. I owned a solid stock AK based on a Romanian G kit for a while. I find I like the folders better, and my Yugo is the most accurate AK I have owned.

 

[Girodin]

To get that look you can do it yourself. It will be more expensive than a more basic pistol grip conversion as it requires a bit more. It will certainly be more expensive than a Wasr-10 which will have that look. Now many people will bash the WASR and I do not try to say the saiga is not a better rifle. My AKs are saigas for a reason. That said the first time I shot with a WASR I realized the internet had, believe it or not, lied to me about these rifles. The gun could do what I would bet 99% of AK owners do with their guns.

As to getting AK mags to work in the saiga that is very simple. There are two things that must be done. First, install a bullet guide which requires drilling and tapping one hole. Second filing down the mag catch so the gun will go in. Both are really easy IMHO.

In addition to a more basic PG grip conversion you will need to address a few other things

To get the AK style hand guards you need to replace the gas tube and get a hand guard retainer.

Do you want wood furniture or is synthetic an option? You likely will need some US made wood to keep 922r compliance. If so Iron wood might be worth checking out.

You'll want to replace the front sight block and put your slant brake on there.

I don't know where you live but one more option, and a route I would go before buying any of the above, is a Draco pistol SBR.

Buy the pistol for $340 or so. Pay uncle same $200. For a stock it has an underfolder trunion if you want an underfolder and one can easily be installed. Or if you wanted a fixed wood stock you can replace the trunion and run a wood stock. Something like this



Remove the muzzle nut and install your brake.

I need to research it more because I have read both ways bu a SBR may need to be 922(r) compliant in which case you might need to replace the FCG for $20 and/or some of the furniture. You still are coming in under $800 and have IMHO a much cooler weapon.

7.62x39 is a great round for an SBR. It loses very little velocity out of the shorter barrel.

 

[Ryder0001]

To get that look you can do it yourself. It will be more expensive than a more basic pistol grip conversion as it requires a bit more. It will certainly be more expensive than a Wasr-10 which will have that look. Now many people will bash the WASR and I do not try to say the saiga is not a better rifle. My AKs are saigas for a reason. That said the first time I shot with a WASR I realized the internet had, believe it or not, lied to me about these rifles. The gun could do what I would bet 99% of AK owners do with their guns.

As to getting AK mags to work in the saiga that is very simple. There are two things that must be done. First, install a bullet guide which requires drilling and tapping one hole. Second filing down the mag catch so the gun will go in. Both are really easy IMHO.

In addition to a more basic PG grip conversion you will need to address a few other things

To get the AK style hand guards you need to replace the gas tube and get a hand guard retainer.

Do you want wood furniture or is synthetic an option? You likely will need some US made wood to keep 922r compliance. If so Iron wood might be worth checking out.

You'll want to replace the front sight block and put your slant brake on there.


Remove the muzzle nut and install your brake.

I need to research it more because I have read both ways bu a SBR may need to be 922(r) compliant in which case you might need to replace the FCG for $20 and/or some of the furniture. You still are coming in under $800 and have IMHO a much cooler weapon.

7.62x39 is a great round for an SBR. It loses very little velocity out of the shorter barrel.

Thank you I have been converted. Now that i see i can achieve a build like this i just need a parts list. I would like all wood. dinzagarms seems like the have all the parts but I would be vey much appreciative if we could get a full parts list going. Lets see if a first time newbie can give this company a run for there money!

 

[Ryder0001]

Where can i get a parts list ?

 

[FSJeeper]

There is only one reason to own an underfolder or sidefolder, and that is concealability and compactness. I own 2 for that reason and for what they are designed for, function well. But there is not way to make them shoot as well as a fixed stock.

That said, I bought a Kel Tec RFB Bullpup .308 that is shorter than the Yugo 70 underfolder and it may be the best of both worlds. I am about to to put it to the test.

 

[rocky branch]

Those are pretty good shot groups for any AK.
They are not tack drivers in any configuration.
Never saw an underfolder thay did not have some wobble.
I had a couple Chinese varients in RVN, a polytech Legend and some mnore recent builds.
They look cool and scare the pants off anti's.

 

[nalioth]

There is only one reason to own an underfolder or sidefolder, and that is concealability and compactness. I own 2 for that reason and for what they are designed for, function well. But there is not way to make them shoot as well as a fixed stock.

. . then you own the wrong stocks.

These side folders are indistinguishable in functionality from their fixed brethren:

 

[ScratchnDent]

I have an underfolder and love it. Fold the stock, and with a 20 round magazine, it disappears inside a small backpack. Not the rifle I''d grab for precision shots at 300 yards, but it does great at blasting hordes of ominous saber-toothed beer cans at 50 yards.

 

[Girodin]

I will try to get a list of parts you will need/ could use. I'm sure if I omit something or otherwise give you disinformation one of the more knowledgeable members here will set me straight.

The biggest thing I would suggest if for the DYI conversion is read up on everything you want to do. Take your time and do things slowly. The results tend to be pretty good and if you are anything like me the result is a gun you tend to have a much greater affinity for than something you simple whipped out the Visa for.

 

[Ryder0001]

I will try to get a list of parts you will need/ could use. I'm sure if I omit something or otherwise give you disinformation one of the more knowledgeable members here will set me straight.

The biggest thing I would suggest if for the DYI conversion is read up on everything you want to do. Take your time and do things slowly. The results tend to be pretty good and if you are anything like me the result is a gun you tend to have a much greater affinity for than something you simple whipped out the Visa for.

I would appreciate that very much!

 

[Girodin]

Here is a list of things off the top of my head, and done very quickly. I'm sure I'm overlooking something so hopefully others will chime in.

Things you’ll needed (or that are just nice to have) to convert a saiga 7.62x39.

One saiga rifle

Tapco G2 fire control (there are others but I use the Tapco)

Retainer plate

Pistol grip

Pistol grip nut

Pistol grip screw (often comes with the pistol grip)

Stock for a stamped receiver

Hand guard retainer (press on or bolt on)

Gas tube

Things you can do a few ways:

Muzzle devices. Here there are some options.

1. Clip on brake

2. If your gun came with threads, as some have, you can cut the shroud and put on a brake.

3. You can cut the shroud and thread the barrel (dinzag rents the tools)

4. You can replace the front sight block with a threaded one.

5. There may be others I’m not thinking of right now

Holes in the receiver: There will be some holes in the receiver that you may want to address. Namely the two holes on either side where the old FCG axis pins came out and the little slot for the bolt hold open. As to the axis pin holes I use the nylon hole plugs. This is cheap, easy, and they look just like rivets. The slot for the BHO I have no problem just leaving it there. I am perfectly content with the above. The other most common option is to weld up the holes.

Things you may want


Trigger guard (I simply reuse the old one. Function wise it works just great and nothing about the way it looks bother me but others that want a particular look may feel differently.

 

[Girodin]

You likely will want to refinish the whole gun at the end if you are going for looks or if you are welding on it. At a minimum you are going to want to paint the bottom of the receiver.

 

[Ryder0001]

Ok so far this is what my list consists of to make a semi identical rifle.

Tapco
-Slant break
-G2 trigger set

Iron Wood
- AKM full set ( Pistol grip, Butt stock, and front grips)

dinzagarms
-Bullet Guide Round/Flat Trunnion
-AK FCG Retaining Plate

K-Var Corp.
-GAS TUBE ~ (BULGARIAN) w/ Vent Holes
-GAS CHAMBER ~ "BULGARIAN", 90-degree, with bayonet/accessory lug
(will it fit with cleaning rod?)
-FRONT SIGHT BLOCK, BULGARIAN (Retainer Pin Holes .75" Apart. Internal Diameter .590")
- Cleaning Rod (Do I need to do anything special to get it on?)
-Retainer ring for lower handguard, standard, Russian

Rivets, bolts,screws, and Pins too.

Am I missing anything? Will these parts fit on a Saiga 7.62x39? Do Saiga's come with dimples and threaded barrels anymore? There is a gun show in November in my area I'm goin to try and pick up the Saiga there with threads and dimples. (If they still come that way) Will this all give me the look im goin for?

 

[lebowski]

If I wanted a folding stock id get one of the arsenal side folders.

 

[Travis McGee]

Folder, all the way! I love folding stock rifles. Love them. I wish my AR could have one.