AK versus Shotgun versus 45ACP Carbine

[mjrodney]

I live in Florida, 3 miles from the Gulf of Mexico, in a community of zero lot line homes (i.e. tightly packed).

Hurricanes are likely and the reality is that Katrina like situations could happen.

All of my self-defense weapons are handguns (except .22s), with .45ACP being the predominant caliber.

I believe I would like to supplement my home defense hardware with a long something-or-other. I don't know what yet.

An AK maybe, or a short barrel shotgun, or a .45ACP carbine would fit the bill.

But which one would you choose and why?

 

[hnk45acp]

The carbine is good if you want to share ammo with your pistols. The shotgun is the best for defense but a SBS could get you into some trouble in a SHTF scenario if the authorities see a guy with a "sawed-off shotgun" and may not give you the benefit of the doubt of it's legality. The AK has all sorts of bad conotations too

 

[frogomatic]

how much do you want to spend? what effective range are you looking for? more background is needed before we can be much help.

 

[Alexfubar]

The profile of an AK something recognised by every human predator in every country in every continent.

And when you fish it out from the wreckage of a tornado shredded house inder a foot of mud it'll still work.

 

[Gord]

So will a Remington 870, most likely. Mossbergs are used by the military if you want that provenance.

The AK presents penetration issues far and away beyond that of a shotgun. My choice would be between the carbine (and I don't even know who makes a .45ACP carbine except maybe Ruger) and a shotgun - and the shotgun would still be my first choice. It can't be beat for close-in firepower, and slugs are always available if you need to reach out and touch someone for whatever reason.

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

I'd vote AK. 30 rounds vs. 4-8 in a shotgun, ability to reach out further if the need arises (like if you are under fire), reliability, quick reloads, etc.
Not sure if I'd bother with a SBS. A 12 or 14" barrel is only marginally more maneuverable than a 18" and I don't think you can use an extended mag tube with them (limiting you to 4 in the mag tube).

 

[Danus ex]

Wrench vs. hammer vs. saw. Different tools, all useful. Get whichever one you like more, then save up for one of the others and get it, and finally, get the third one. More guns = more good.

 

[akodo]

for shotguns, yea, 14" with the extra hassle for getting it, vs the 18", just go 18.

Now, really, the shotgun doesn't have the reach out and touch someone power than an AK or somesuch would have, but it is at least equal if not superior in close range business. However, ammo is going to be much more prevalent if you go 12 guage. Also, I tend to think that a shotgun, even a 'tactical' shotgun you have the potential for harvesting game, even if it is 'rat gumbo'

 

[akodo]

actually, I'd recommend a budget angle combo. Pick up an SKS, and then find a used mossberg/marlin/coast-to-coast bolt action 12 guage. Very reliable and usually dirt cheap, we are talking $80-$100. Cut her down to 18.5 inches.

 

[CountGlockula]

Shotgun.

 

[frogomatic]

(and I don't even know who makes a .45ACP carbine except maybe Ruger)

I believe hi-point now chambers their carbine in .45auto, not to metion the venerable Thompson.

 

[Jguy101]

Besides the Hi-Point (not sure about that one) and Thompson, Beretta offers the CX4 Storm in .45 ACP. There are also Mech-Tech CCU conversions for Glocks and 1911s, and someone is offering a replica of the DeLisle Carbine.

 

[jmancini]

For 45 carbines, don't forget HK. The USC is tac-driver-accurate and works with 45 super (in limited quantities) as well.

http://www.hecklerkoch-usa.com/rifles_usc_general.html

 

[Chupacabra]

But which one would you choose and why?

Eh, it's really personal preference and what an individual is most comfortable using. Personally, I would go to my shotgun before my pistol. If I had a rifle (like an AR15) I would probably go to that first.

Shotguns are great because they are so versatile. You can use one gun for bird hunting, deer hunting, trap, skeet, home defense, etc... All you need to change is the ammo.

 

[ROMAK IV]

The AK will give you better penetration and distance, especially useful in a SHTF disaster area, plus it looks "bad" and will have some greater intimidation.

Just about any shotgun is a superior short range defensive weapon, and matches approximately, the effectrive ranges of your pistols. You are also more likely to hit what you're aiming at, since you have a longer distance between sights and the pattern of the shot.

The 45 caliber carbine would increase somewhat the effective range of the 45 caliber round, and should be more accurate, but will fall a little short in capability in comparison to the other two.

Which one you choose and what particular rifle or shotgun is your choice. I would want a greater capability than what I had, if I was making the choice, Nearly every instance and weapon's choice is a compromise, but if $$ is an important factor, all you will really save with the 45 carbine would be ammunition cost. Like has been shown, there are extremely reliable and relatively inexpensive choices as the other guy pointed out. Making informed choices as to "assesories" and ammunition selection, can mitigate or eliminate certain disadvantages.

 

[yesit'sloaded]

Would try to loot someone with an AK as opposed to a shotgun?

 

[GTSteve03]

Keep the pistol rounds in a pistol. This fight is between the AK and shotgun.

Personally, I would go shotgun if it's going to be your first (and only) long gun for the time being. It's more versatile, as has been noted. You can hunt with it if you need to and it's unmatched in close-range situations, which is what you'd find yourself in.

Once you've got a good shotgun (I have a Benelli Supernova, but Mossberg/Remington is a good choice too) then you can save up to get a nice rifle such as an AK a little later.

 

[HungSquirrel]

It's a moot question; when the next hurricane hits, Uncle Sugar will just take your guns from you.

I'd go with the shotty. I wouldn't want an errant rifle bullet going into a neighbor's house, considering you live so close.

 

[JWarren]

I normally say that either an AR or AK will always fit the bill for most emergencies. But HungSquirrel makes an excellent point. I think a good scattergun would do you well.

But do not forget that likely your handgun will be with you FAR more than any long arm. I learned that from experience. For Natural Disaster planning-- on the lines of Katrina-- a good handgun and a good long gun will get you through in terms of firearms.


And get one of those BIG-sized Swiss Army Knives. You'll thank yourself for it. Mine weights like 14 pounds-- but I used it a LOT during Katrina.



-- John

 

[4v50 Gary]

Price is a consideration. I don't want a $1,000k rifle when a $200 gun will do. Remember, when the police do finally manage to come around, you will be arrested and held until cleared of manslaughter. Your gun will be seized evidence until you are cleared. While it is impounded, it is subject to abuse (dump in a barrel with other guns with no cleaning or care). That's why I like the SKS over the AK. Cheap.

 

[JWarren]

Wow... I think Gary just ended -- once and for all-- the AR vs. AK debate as it pertains to SHTF scenerios.


-- John

 

[ConstitutionCowboy]

The Beretta CX 4 Storm in 45ACP is a great home defense carbine. I've got mine rigged up with a light and a red dot scope. It's accurate, manoverable, simple to operate, and reliable.

Woody

 

[David904]

Why does it have to be either a shotgun or a rifle.

Get both.

A 12 gauge shotgun with a minimum legal length barrel is a great CQB tool and works great in the house. Get one. They aren't expensive.

Now get a rifle. AR or AK... See if you can find someone who will let you shoot one of each and see what you like best. I personally went with an AR platform. It is reasonably rugged and reliable. And, it has a low enough recoil that if I was hurt, or my wife needed to shoot it, it could be done with much less effort. True, the 5.56 isn't as robust a round as the 7.62, but is seems to have been doing quite a number on our enemies in Iraq and Afghanistan. I'm comfortable with my choice. A plus for the AK is that I believe it is quite a bit less expensive than the AR. Have fun shopping!

 

[Kindrox]

I think a lot of these discussions get off track because of some deep seated my-gun-is-bigger-than-yours farce.

I don’t think your going to be under gunned with any of them, or even a 9mm carbine. If anyone here says 9mm carbine is a pop gun, PM me and drop by for an experience with 32 147 grain hollow points, with 32 more a jungle-clipped mag away. If your shft is worse than that, maybe you’re not going to make it no matter what firearm you have. I mean really, all day long there is discussion about how the so-and-so .308 will reach out and touch someone at 300 yards and anything less is like tattooing “Candy a$$” on your forehead and then heading to a whips and chains convention. Which of course it will (range 300+ yards), but it ain’t the point of a shft gun.

The point is, what is the threat you face and how will you deal with it? I think come shft, while you will spend time in your house, and therefore gun size and weight won’t be a big factor, you will find yourself in situations where mobility and concealability count.

It is going to be really tempting to leave that big heavy unwealdy gun back somewhere where you aren’t. But to be useful the gun has to be with YOU 24/7.

As for fire power, sure in NOLA there were gun battles, but up close and not against entrenched fighters but against groups of looters. Given a situation like that, I don’t have to have a 50 cal and I don’t want to run out of ammo and have to head back to the house for a reload.


My point is, I’ll take a healthy dose of mobility, good ammo capacity, and enough firepower over massive firepower and low mobility. I think guns that fit this are pleantiful.

For our house I balanced fire power with weight and size, combined with what my entire family is comfortable with. That means (for us) ARs and Uzis. The AR is fairly compact, but the Uzi compacts that much more if needed, and my wife is comfortable with both.

In my mind the shft gun has a folding stock (best) or collapsible stock. Something you can get on the AK and shotgun. Some carbines won’t have that.

I darn well want a lot of rounds at the ready. AK with a drum is going to be hard to beat. AKs with the long banana clip don’t conceal well enough for me, I don’t know if you can get 20s like for the AR. For my AR I keep a mix of 20s and 30s. 30s for inside the house, 20s for concealability. Lone shotguns without extra rounds attached don’t cut it to me. Get caught without a real convenient reload, pop off a couple rounds, and now the only thing on your mind is how to score more ammo before running empty.

Some carbines don’t take a lot of rounds either, another consideration.

 

[David904]

I could be completely wrong in this (happened before) but there were several instances where someone defended themselves with firearms and killed their aggressors - and were never held accountable.

I wouldn't worry so much about having my gun confiscated in a Katrina-like scenario only to have it corrode unattended in an evidence room. If I have to defend myself with it, society and all its social niceties / public services are not functioning. I'll do what is necessary to defend myself. I sure wouldn't hunt for trouble though. You'd have enough on you plate just trying to survive.