All guns outlawed in Australia?
- Thread starter Cannonball888
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Yankee
Member
I just want to reiterate that despite what many Americans may have led to believe, yes, Australia does still have a healthy and vibrant community of gun owners including handguns. The number of firearms being legally purchased is continuing to grow rapidly while this country hasn't seen a mass-shooting in 12 years. My friends and I still hunt deer, foxes, rabbit, pigs, goats, duck and buffalo as often as we can and vast swathes of the country are still uninhabited and perfect for game. The loss of certain classes of firearms did not magically turn us into sheeple anymore than a total ban on automatic weapons would instantly turn Americans into slaves. Yes, there are guns I would love to see back on the shelves and I have recently been pleased to see small improvements to minor gun laws and live in hope that we may overturn some bans. A my tag line says, I believe that the second ammendment is an essential liberty and not just for Americans but for all people but I think many people are wrong or very simplistic to just assume that gun rights is the benchmark for individual liberty or that free and easy access to firearms equates to a more free or more safe community.
Mascoma
Member
All I have to say is this...
"if you don't stand for something you'll fall for anything..."
If we don't like what the law makers are doing with our gun rights then we have mass together and change who is making the laws. if we just sit back and say oh that will never happen well remember prayer in schools...They'll get my guns when they pull'em from my cold dead hands...
"if you don't stand for something you'll fall for anything..."
If we don't like what the law makers are doing with our gun rights then we have mass together and change who is making the laws. if we just sit back and say oh that will never happen well remember prayer in schools...They'll get my guns when they pull'em from my cold dead hands...
Mascoma
Member
robertC1, What does that have to do with anything... I once had a horse with a broken leg, so I shot it (Gun related)... but that didn't fix the leg...
I lived in Australia 1965 till 1968, loved it, owned a Browning Hi Power, a Chief Special, .22 Star Target Pistol, and I belonged to a great gun club.
Live in the land of the FREE now, carry permit, always carry.
Have not shot anybody yet, most likely never will.
BUT I CAN IF I NEED TOO! That is the difference in living in the U. S. of A!
In Orlando we are surrounded by nice people, well mannered and pleasant, but being nice does not equate to being soft!
Keep Safe.
Live in the land of the FREE now, carry permit, always carry.
Have not shot anybody yet, most likely never will.
BUT I CAN IF I NEED TOO! That is the difference in living in the U. S. of A!
In Orlando we are surrounded by nice people, well mannered and pleasant, but being nice does not equate to being soft!
Keep Safe.
I am married to an Aussie and visit there now and again to see her family. Not once have I ever felt unsafe. There are small pockets of crime in the big cities but these are neighborhoods you typically stay clear of.
I have been fortunate enough to travel around Europe and for the most part felt the same way there.........Safe.
I cannot say the same thing about the area I live in ( Tampa Bay area ). This is the reason why I carry a gun everywhere I go.
Chris
I have been fortunate enough to travel around Europe and for the most part felt the same way there.........Safe.
I cannot say the same thing about the area I live in ( Tampa Bay area ). This is the reason why I carry a gun everywhere I go.
Chris
Shung
Member
Better to feel safe and still have a gun, than not 
That's what im angry about. they don't give me the choice..
That's what im angry about. they don't give me the choice..
Mike2
Member
Don't get me wrong, one thing I think we are all over looking is this; In the US, we have a group of folks known as liberals. These folks sit here and condemn guns, tell us that homosexualtiy is ok, tell us how to raise our children and if we don't, take our children away, force us to be tolerant of there way of life but will not tolerate our way of life, kill innocent children before they have a chance to be born, protest the legal extermination of people who murder and commit terrible crimes........and on and on and on yet these same people (the liberals voting base) are the ones (tyyically) who are the ones committing the crimes in the US. Last time I checked with our local law enforcement (sherriff and chief of police are good friends of mine) 100% of the folks they had locked up felt like we owed them something, were actively on welfare or some other gooberment program, had the entitlement mentality, were crackheads/ pot heads/ gang bangers/ thugs/ etc. Again, don't get me wrong, I know all of these folks are not bad but most of them fit the profile. We have higher crime rates in the US because of bad people, we have a disproportionate amount of bad people because we (as a nation/ government) tolerate and even encourage more bad people because of the programs that we offer them. It all boils down to political power and keeping your voting base satisfied, keep the monthly welfare checks rolling and we'll keep voting for you, keep the WIC programs running and we'll keep voting for you, keep slapping us on the wrist for selling crack and we'll keep voting for you, keep medicaid funded/ government hand outs going and we'll keep voting for you. It all boils down to this, certain people really suck and we have a LOT of them here in the US. Other countries don't put up with this crap and people actually have to be relatively decent people. I respect Austalia and other countries like it, at least a large portion of there population work hard, mind there own business and believe in those same fundamental freedoms that we do. Hope I didn't piss any liberals off but if I did, there is a thing called the 1st amendment that applies to me too, not just to you. Let the flames begin...........
Shung
Member
Mike2, i strongly disagree with you on abortion..
I mean, I'd rather save the "life" of a young mother that doesnt want/cannot be one at that moment, than force her to have this child.. both would suffer from this "forced" situation.. A child MUST be desired.
it's everyone's choice, and NOBODY should decide for these mothers. (and a 6 weeks embryon life isnt more important than a adult grown women one)
Same goes for death penalty.. I fully agree with you that murderers and rapist dont desserve anything else than death..
BUT, I refuse to kill ONE innocent by mistake, even if it means sparing 100 guilty people.. Death penalty would be good if there was 0% mistake.. but we are FAR from it.. Look in GB.. this week, after 25 years in jail, they discovered that one was innocent (DNA proven).. We rob him 25 years.. awful, but still better than taking his life away.. lifetime jail isnt the best solution, but it's the more acceptable.. Still give the innocent ones chance to be proven innocent and to be free again. Of course, I'd make the prisonners work as everybody else, to pay for their life in jail.
on one point you are 100% right ! the one you call liberals/greens/leftiest want us to tolerate their way of life and ideas, but they are totally unable to respect ours ! They are the most untolerant people around, even if they don't realise it yet.
I mean, I'd rather save the "life" of a young mother that doesnt want/cannot be one at that moment, than force her to have this child.. both would suffer from this "forced" situation.. A child MUST be desired.
it's everyone's choice, and NOBODY should decide for these mothers. (and a 6 weeks embryon life isnt more important than a adult grown women one)
Same goes for death penalty.. I fully agree with you that murderers and rapist dont desserve anything else than death..
BUT, I refuse to kill ONE innocent by mistake, even if it means sparing 100 guilty people.. Death penalty would be good if there was 0% mistake.. but we are FAR from it.. Look in GB.. this week, after 25 years in jail, they discovered that one was innocent (DNA proven).. We rob him 25 years.. awful, but still better than taking his life away.. lifetime jail isnt the best solution, but it's the more acceptable.. Still give the innocent ones chance to be proven innocent and to be free again. Of course, I'd make the prisonners work as everybody else, to pay for their life in jail.
on one point you are 100% right ! the one you call liberals/greens/leftiest want us to tolerate their way of life and ideas, but they are totally unable to respect ours ! They are the most untolerant people around, even if they don't realise it yet.
Mike2
Member
I agree with you, if a mother's life is at stake or there has been rape or incest I can accept abortion with these circumstances in mind, however, we use abortion as birth control in the US, contraception can be had at NO charge so there really is no excuse for unplanned pregnancies. I wasn't trying to start an abortion thread just building a mindset about the problems we have here in the States to convey what IMO is truly wrong with folks here.
I agree with you on this one also, Im just really tired of confessed Ax murderers, rapist, serial killers sitting in jail for 40 years, costing the tax payers literally millions and millions of dollars per year to feed there rotten rearends when they should have been fried 35 years ago. Again, just trying to set the stage for discussion.
Totally agree with you on the rest........have a good one and keep your powder dry!!!
bonza
Member
Mike2, As I mentioned in my original post in this thread, I am originally from Australia & moved to the U.S. sixteen years ago & still make the occasional visit to see family & friends. Believe me, when I say the U.S. may have problems with its welfare system, but it's nothing compared to Australia's. Virtually everyone down there is sucking from the government teat, if they want to or not. As soon as you have kids the government sends you a check each month, the more kids you have the more money you get.
When my wife & I had our first child the checks started to arrive. Sadly, our baby died at three months (SIDS), so we went in to the gov't office to tell them to stop sending the 'child-support' checks & they were flabbergasted that we'd even bother requesting that. When our second baby came along we were renting-to-buy a house from my parents, my wife worked part-time & I worked nights at General Motors so we were doing ok financially, but because we were 'renting' we automatically qualified for additional 'assistance' from the govt. This is back in the early 1990s, so I'm a bit foggy as to the amount, but I seem to think we were getting over $200/month.
Living in the U.S., the only way I'm going to get any assistance from the government is if I ask them for it (the occasional 'stimulus' check not withstanding!!), & I prefer it that way.
To add some firearms-content to this post, when I first started shooting in Australia, it was 1975 & I was fifteen. At that time, in my state, you only had to have a licence if you were between the ages of 15 & 18, an adult didn't need one, except for handguns. Registration was optional at 50cents/gun. A few years later new legislation was passed, on the state level, & licences were required for all firearm users & registration became mandatory. You could still buy any long-gun from a gun shop or private party without any waiting period, but you had to have the correct classification of licence for the gun you bought, & you had fourteen days in which to register it. It was still that way when I left in 1993. Most of the current laws/restrictions they have are due to the Pt. Arthur (Tasmania) shootings back around 1996.
When my wife & I had our first child the checks started to arrive. Sadly, our baby died at three months (SIDS), so we went in to the gov't office to tell them to stop sending the 'child-support' checks & they were flabbergasted that we'd even bother requesting that. When our second baby came along we were renting-to-buy a house from my parents, my wife worked part-time & I worked nights at General Motors so we were doing ok financially, but because we were 'renting' we automatically qualified for additional 'assistance' from the govt. This is back in the early 1990s, so I'm a bit foggy as to the amount, but I seem to think we were getting over $200/month.
Living in the U.S., the only way I'm going to get any assistance from the government is if I ask them for it (the occasional 'stimulus' check not withstanding!!), & I prefer it that way.
To add some firearms-content to this post, when I first started shooting in Australia, it was 1975 & I was fifteen. At that time, in my state, you only had to have a licence if you were between the ages of 15 & 18, an adult didn't need one, except for handguns. Registration was optional at 50cents/gun. A few years later new legislation was passed, on the state level, & licences were required for all firearm users & registration became mandatory. You could still buy any long-gun from a gun shop or private party without any waiting period, but you had to have the correct classification of licence for the gun you bought, & you had fourteen days in which to register it. It was still that way when I left in 1993. Most of the current laws/restrictions they have are due to the Pt. Arthur (Tasmania) shootings back around 1996.
jrhines
Member
Read your tag line again...
Yankee..."I think many people are wrong or very simplistic to just assume that gun rights is the benchmark for individual liberty or that free and easy access to firearms equates to a more free or more safe community."
It says "free state", nobody asks for it to be "more safe". The principles engendered in the 2A would still be true if the constitution were never written, "to ensure a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed". I'll keep myself safe, thank you!
Yankee..."I think many people are wrong or very simplistic to just assume that gun rights is the benchmark for individual liberty or that free and easy access to firearms equates to a more free or more safe community."
It says "free state", nobody asks for it to be "more safe". The principles engendered in the 2A would still be true if the constitution were never written, "to ensure a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed". I'll keep myself safe, thank you!
UnclePete
Member
Not true sir. Self defence is not accepted as a reason for owning a gun in Britain, but if you happen to have one handy using it for that reason is not a crime in itself, depends on the circumstances.
This guy killed an intruder and was aquitted.
Ultimately it is up to a jury, and they tend to sympathise with people who fought back when in jeapordy. The only case I know of when someone was convicted after killing an intruder was Tony Martin. Crucially, he shot a boy who was running away, but even so Martin was released very early from prison, and has always attracted massive public support.
MHBushmaster
Member
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2006
- Messages
- 175
In response to Yankees posts
Yankee, you wrote: "I think many people are wrong or very simplistic to just assume that gun rights is the benchmark for individual liberty or that free and easy access to firearms equates to a more free or more safe community."
and you also wrote this gem: "there are countries with strict firearm laws which are anything but oppressive and tyranical eg Australia"
You sound like an obedient subject. Something that you and your UK friends have had bred out of your populace is the realization of inherent Inalienable Rights. You and your fellow subjects let the government oppress you, you have let them take control of your Rights. That is tyranny, that is oppressive. Want proof, here is how your government views this subject:
"Protection of yourself, your family or your property is not considered a genuine reason for owning a firearm." -Australian Government
You can pull inferential statistics that have been "modified" to try and show that your Aussie Rules makes your average subject more "safe" as compared to an American Citizen.
But here is the rub: in America YOU CAN LEGALLY CARRY AND DEFEND YOUR LIFE WITH A GUN AND LEGALLY OWN THE GUN FOR JUST THAT PURPOSE. Translated for subjects: We don't have to cower in fear while thugs on a train hold us up at knife point, we can and will resist with lethal force from a firearm if the US citizen so chooses to lawfully and rightly arm themselves for self protection.
I'd rather die as an American on my feet with my S&W 10mm in slide-lock in my dead hands than on my knees as defenseless subject (or live in fear that I couldn't defend my life because my overlords don't deem me worthy of protecting my life and the lives of my family).
*I have known, been coworkers and even dear friends with many Australians and Kiwi's. I had friends in my wedding that traveled from Australia (Melbourne and Tazmania) and from New Zealand (Christchurch). So I'm not without understanding how folks down there act and how they are in regards to laws/government.
Yankee, you wrote: "I think many people are wrong or very simplistic to just assume that gun rights is the benchmark for individual liberty or that free and easy access to firearms equates to a more free or more safe community."
and you also wrote this gem: "there are countries with strict firearm laws which are anything but oppressive and tyranical eg Australia"
You sound like an obedient subject. Something that you and your UK friends have had bred out of your populace is the realization of inherent Inalienable Rights. You and your fellow subjects let the government oppress you, you have let them take control of your Rights. That is tyranny, that is oppressive. Want proof, here is how your government views this subject:
"Protection of yourself, your family or your property is not considered a genuine reason for owning a firearm." -Australian Government
You can pull inferential statistics that have been "modified" to try and show that your Aussie Rules makes your average subject more "safe" as compared to an American Citizen.
But here is the rub: in America YOU CAN LEGALLY CARRY AND DEFEND YOUR LIFE WITH A GUN AND LEGALLY OWN THE GUN FOR JUST THAT PURPOSE. Translated for subjects: We don't have to cower in fear while thugs on a train hold us up at knife point, we can and will resist with lethal force from a firearm if the US citizen so chooses to lawfully and rightly arm themselves for self protection.
I'd rather die as an American on my feet with my S&W 10mm in slide-lock in my dead hands than on my knees as defenseless subject (or live in fear that I couldn't defend my life because my overlords don't deem me worthy of protecting my life and the lives of my family).
*I have known, been coworkers and even dear friends with many Australians and Kiwi's. I had friends in my wedding that traveled from Australia (Melbourne and Tazmania) and from New Zealand (Christchurch). So I'm not without understanding how folks down there act and how they are in regards to laws/government.
Buck Snort
Member
"Thanks for the info. Self-defense is not a valid reason? It boggles the mind how Austrailian citizens could allow this to happen to them.''
They voted in a bunch of liberals, they deserve what they've got!
They voted in a bunch of liberals, they deserve what they've got!
Mike2
Member
Bucksnort...............we did too. (Technically we didn't but a simple majority of Americans did) We will be facing these same problems shortly. Now the socialist are in control (granted they don't have a supermajority but its getting closer). We have seen the US steam roll toward socialism at an even faster pace in the last few years and will only pick up more steam with the current administration. Sad fact is, regardless of who is in control Republicans are taking us toward socialism at 50 mph and dems are taking us at 1000 mph, we are still headed in the same direction.... its got to start on the local level and move from there. Become active in local politics, we need "Gun toting Right wing extremists" in state and local government and then slowly make the way up from there one race at a time. By all means necessary we must protect our 2A rights, they are being slowly and methodically taken away from us in the name of security.....
Yankee
Member
Might want to check your history there mate - it was a newly elected conservative government, one of the most conservative we've ever had. Problem was that after the worst mass-shooting in history, the largely urban public were screaming for action and a ban on some types of semi-automatic weapons was the result. I disagreed strongly with it, attended rallies, wrote to my local member and the Prime Minister as did tens of thousands of gun owners. The laws were still passed. I guess you'll call us sheeple because we didn't form militia, abandon our families and conduct an armed insurgency against our government - you know, battle to the death, Molon Labe, from my cold dead hands etc etc. Now we live in this hellish fascist state crawling around on our knees having to beg for scraps from the government and dreaming of being truly free one day - yep that's modern Australia alright. I look forward to being inspired and reading the frontline dispatches from the brave insurgents on this board once Obama and Holder turn their attention to banning guns in the US. I'm sure we'll be just as effective at stopping limitations on our gun rights as we have been at stopping other limitations on our freedoms. Remind me again which country has nationalised vast swathes of its economy and spends more public money on health care than any nation on earth?
Yankee
Member
Thanks to America's social degeneration you have a very good chance of your scenario coming true. As with so many people, I think you have taken an extreme view. I have a Glock 34 in my bedroom and a shotgun in the next room. I'm a former soldier and well trained in defensive tactics. The law restricts me from having a magazine larger than 10 rounds on the handgun and the shotgun is not semi-automatic. Tell me - do you really think I'm living on my knees as a defenceless subject? Do you think I live in fear? Do you think I can't protect the lives of my family? Because our restrictive gun laws have made it extremely difficult and expensive to obtain weapons illegally, I garantee you that I am better armed than 99% of the petty criminals that are likely to think about invading my home and I am better trained than than the other 1%. The truth is that the scenario is almost unthinkable here but in much of urban America, the sad truth is that it is almost inevitable. The main difference is that the lowlife home invader in America will almost certainly be carrying something more dangerous than a screwdriver.
Yankee,
If all you have is a 12 gage side by side, no one is walking out the front door they bust in through, right?
But I have to say my Glock 19 will feel nice when I walk out of my front door this morning.
Sorry, not correct, I drive out of the garage, close it with a remote, hit the alarm remote for the house.
Love Florida, but take precautions!
I loved NSW when I lived there as well.
Have a Schooner of Tooys(sp) on me!
Keep Safe.
If all you have is a 12 gage side by side, no one is walking out the front door they bust in through, right?
But I have to say my Glock 19 will feel nice when I walk out of my front door this morning.
Sorry, not correct, I drive out of the garage, close it with a remote, hit the alarm remote for the house.
Love Florida, but take precautions!
I loved NSW when I lived there as well.
Have a Schooner of Tooys(sp) on me!
Keep Safe.
Yes all handguns are banned in Australia
Don't believe what you hear from the media they are hardly ever correct, or atleast telling all the truths/facts.
One crash course for current Australian gun laws coming up;
Cat A - air rifle, shotguns (not pump or self loading) rimfire rifles (pump and lever ok but not self loading)
Cat B - Black Powder, Centrefire Rifle (lever, pump ok but not self loading)
Cat A & B are QUITE easy to get if you have a clear record.
Cat C - Self loading rimfire rifles up to 10 shot mag self loading and pump shotguns up to 5 shot cap
Mostly for farmers etc but can be had by some sporting shooters for shooting clay's if they have a medical certificate saying they need one (many people still have Cat since medical certificates are not very hard to get if you have ever had a shoulder injury etc)
Cat D - Self loading Centrefire rifles, Self loading rimfire above 10 shot mag, self loading and pump shotguns above 5 shot cap
(Not so easy to get)
Cat H - Handguns
This is where it gets interesting
Revolvers min barrel length 100mm not greater than .38 cal
Semi auto min barrel length 120mm mag cap 10rd, not greater than .38 cal
There is a large cal permit which more and more people are able to get (depends on wether your club is approved) which allows up to .45 cal in handguns
These restritions do not relate to black powder firearms
Cat G - Collectors
Can have anything even machine guns and rocket launchers but the more "evil" the firearm the more disabled the firearm is by law ie any machine gun a collector has will never fire a live round again it will have a welded rod down barrel, action welded up etc
Collectors can have all handguns but are required to temporarily disable them ie remove firing pin. Not hard to make the firearm work and of course many do.
All these Cat's bar C & D are fairly easy to obtain provided you have a clean record, are a member of a club, and have an approved safe.
p.s Collection is several times larger than what is in pic
Don't believe what you hear from the media they are hardly ever correct, or atleast telling all the truths/facts.
One crash course for current Australian gun laws coming up;
Cat A - air rifle, shotguns (not pump or self loading) rimfire rifles (pump and lever ok but not self loading)
Cat B - Black Powder, Centrefire Rifle (lever, pump ok but not self loading)
Cat A & B are QUITE easy to get if you have a clear record.
Cat C - Self loading rimfire rifles up to 10 shot mag self loading and pump shotguns up to 5 shot cap
Mostly for farmers etc but can be had by some sporting shooters for shooting clay's if they have a medical certificate saying they need one (many people still have Cat since medical certificates are not very hard to get if you have ever had a shoulder injury etc)
Cat D - Self loading Centrefire rifles, Self loading rimfire above 10 shot mag, self loading and pump shotguns above 5 shot cap
(Not so easy to get)
Cat H - Handguns
This is where it gets interesting
Revolvers min barrel length 100mm not greater than .38 cal
Semi auto min barrel length 120mm mag cap 10rd, not greater than .38 cal
There is a large cal permit which more and more people are able to get (depends on wether your club is approved) which allows up to .45 cal in handguns
These restritions do not relate to black powder firearms
Cat G - Collectors
Can have anything even machine guns and rocket launchers but the more "evil" the firearm the more disabled the firearm is by law ie any machine gun a collector has will never fire a live round again it will have a welded rod down barrel, action welded up etc
Collectors can have all handguns but are required to temporarily disable them ie remove firing pin. Not hard to make the firearm work and of course many do.
All these Cat's bar C & D are fairly easy to obtain provided you have a clean record, are a member of a club, and have an approved safe.
p.s Collection is several times larger than what is in pic
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The per-capita crime rate in the US is inordinately skewed by a certain crack-smoking stratum of society. When that is factored out of the annual FBI crime stats, US crime rate looks like that of the places we think of as pretty calm and safe -- Switzerland, Scandinavia, etc.
But surely our government will do what it does best when confronted with a rising crime problem per the demographic projections -- pass yet more laws to be (by definition) ignored by the criminal element, and largely adhered to by the law-abiding victim population. We will look like Australia yet.
But surely our government will do what it does best when confronted with a rising crime problem per the demographic projections -- pass yet more laws to be (by definition) ignored by the criminal element, and largely adhered to by the law-abiding victim population. We will look like Australia yet.
Yankee
Member
I agree completely Starboard, if you take all of the criminal acts out of the statistics, you find that America is in fact an extremely safe and crime free society. In fact, if you ignore the pesky 16,000 murders a year and hundreds of thousands of rapes, violent assaults and robberies, America's crime rate is actually lower than the places you mentioned.
/sarc
lanternlad1
Member
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2007
- Messages
- 770
Most of those in American prisons are non-violent drug offenders. If they legalized just marijuana, half of all our prisons would be empty.
People wouldn't think of trying that here. They might get shot.
Yes, that IS my point.
Yankee
Member
Try standing up in any Australian pub and call them weak, oppressed sheeple with no freedoms. The guys I know would take pleasure in freely kicking your arse.
Really, bar fights don't happen in the US anymore because you're afraid of being killed by somebody who insults you? Sounds like Americans are the ones who live in fear.
Yes, that is my point.
Really, bar fights don't happen in the US anymore because you're afraid of being killed by somebody who insults you? Sounds like Americans are the ones who live in fear.
Yes, that is my point.
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