Am I being too paranoid about Semiauto safety features?

[MacTech]

I'm a long time recreational shooter, but am used to bolt-action rifles, pump-action shotguns, and revolvers primarily, I've recently been bitten by the semiauto bug, my two semis are a Ruger 10/22 Carbine (yes, I know, not a handgun, bit it is a semi and therefore relates to this thread) and a Taurus PT-99AF 9mm

I've always loved the Beretta-style pistols, but seeing as i'm a stingy bugger, I couldn't rationalize paying for the Beretta name (Taurus-Haters, please hold your tongues here, I know you don't like the brand and look for opportunities to slam them, please do not do so in this thread) even though Beretta makes a great firearm and is worth it...

So, last weekend I found myself at my local gunshop, trading in some of my extraneous SureFire and Spyderco pieces, I got enough store credit to purchase a excellent condition used Taurus PT-99AF (the newer model with the front rails) for basically $30 out-of-pocket

this thing is in great mechanical shape and operates smoothly, I have not had the opportunity to range-test it yet (I'll hit the range tomorrow, gotta get a membership first), but I'm sure it'll run flawlessly

anyway, to get to the point of this thread, seeing as my past experience with handguns has been almost exclusively revolvers (Taurus 689 and Ruger GP-100 .357 and Ruger Single-Six SA, along with a Ruger Mark II .22LR), I'm used to the mannerisms of revolvers, and the ease of checking for chambered rounds (look in the cylinder wells), revolvers have also trained me well to keep my finger off the trigger until I'm on-target and ready to fire

the firearm safety rules are ingrained in me, I treat every gun as if it's loaded, keep the muzzle under control, finger off the trigger until ready to fire, actions locked open on a cold range or when transporting, etc...

Here's the thing though, since I'm new to the whole centerfire semiauto thing, I'm always a little concerned that the safety features may not work, leading to an AD, for example, sliding a loaded mag into the pistol, and allowing the slide to snap closed, I'm afraid that the gun might discharge when the slide snaps closed (Slam-fire?), so I tend to ease the slide closed to chamber rounds.

I have cycled my three mags through on my .22 range in our woodlot to check for functioning and feeding, I can't use my .22 range to shoot this gun though, as my sister lives down the road on our property and the noise could scare her horses, so I was limited to feed/eject tests with live ammo (all safety rules followed religiously), not a single slam-fire

another safety feature I'm unsure of is the decocker, to take the firearm out of Condition One, that has also been tested on the .22 range, not a single discharge

Now, I've verified that both safeties function as intended, I should no longer be concerned about AD or slam-fire, right?

wrong, no matter what I try, I cannot trust the fact that these safety features will work as intended, I'm always concerned that when I decock the gun, it'll fire, or that by letting the slide snap closed, it'll fire, even though I have concrete proof otherwise, I guess it's because I was trained to distrust safeties, as the only true safety is "keeping your booger hook off the bang switch"

Is this just unfamiliarity with both a new gun and new style of action? am I overreacting? don't get me wrong, I like the multiple safeties on the PT99, as I'm a strong believer in multiple redundancies, but the safeties, being mechanical devices, can potentially fail and should not be trusted, and yes, the only true safety is the shooter, but is my distrust of the decocker and letting the slide snap closed unfounded?

a couple other questions spring to mind as well;

can the PT99 be dry-fired, or should I use snap-caps
Can this firearm handle +P or +P+ loads
If I was to get into reloading (big believer in self-sufficiency, and I like the idea of custom loads and lower operating costs) what are some reccomended loads

 

[Calhoun321]

I am more safety conscious than most. However, even I will say you are over reacting - at least in a good way though. Most modern pistols are very safe. The things you fear are highly unlikely, but always point your guns in a safe direction to chamber/decock. You should use full force to chamber a round to ensure that it seats properly.

 

[Tribal]

I'm not sure how similar the Taurus is to the Beretta 92fs, but my 92fs allows you to release the slide while the safety is activated, meaning that you have a physical barrier between the firing pin and the primer. If the Taurus has this and you use it, slamfires should never be a problem (although they probably aren't so long as you maintain your gun anyway).

The gun can be dry-fired, although using snap caps is never a bad idea.

I'll admit that I'm a little paranoid about decocking, too. I tend to ride the hammer down when I do it.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

I like my handguns to have a passive "drop safety" so as not to go off if dropped or thrown to the ground for whatever reason. Almost any autoloaders manufactured in the last 20-25 years will have one. However, I do not insist on "on/off switch" manual safeties unless the design requires it, e.g., the "cocked-and-locked" 1911.

Currently, I have only one auto with a manual safety, a S&W 3913. And I carry it with the safety off.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

If it's like my Beretta 96FS then the trigger has to be pressed all the way to the rear to disengage the firing pin block, which is located in the slide.

 

[357wheelgunner]

For your uneasiness....Keep your finger off the trigger and point the gun in a safe direction when you chamber. If it fires, it won't be your fault and it won't hurt anyone. There's almost no chance of that happening anyway. If you don't like the way the hammer flies forward when you use the decocker, get a Sig. Their decocker slowly lowers the hammer, I believe that Sig is the only one who does this properly.

I'm also a "revolver guy", and since I started carrying a semi-auto I have been as paranoid as you describe about knowing if a round is chambered or not. I check my Sig everytime I go out the door, because I never know if it is chambered or not.

 

[GTSteve03]

Easy way to 100% check if your decocker is safe:

1. UNLOAD THE GUN
2. Check that gun is unloaded, cock the hammer, then put pencil in the barrel
3. Point gun upward, decock the hammer, see if pencil moves

If no pencil movement, then your firing pin will never touch the primer when you decock and your gun is perfectly safe to decock while loaded.

This is also a good way to test if your gun works after a full detail strip and reassembly.

 

[MacTech]

Okay, I've been doing some experiments on my empty, unloaded 99AF, and am starting to become more at ease with it....

I've discovered the decoker only drops the hammer to the half-cocked stage, and the hammer never touches the firing pin, it seems *almost* physically impossible for the decocker to engage the firing pin

if the trigger is released prematurely or not fully held back, the hammer drops only to the half-cocked stage, and does not strike the firing pin, I'm assuming that's the firing pin block?, the only way the hammer strikes the firing pin is if the trigger is held back the whole time, I'm also assuming the little round nubbin on the back of the slide is the pin block, there's a lever/pushrod thingy on the right hand side of the frame that appears to depress it....

yep, looking at the take-apart diagram on the Taurus website, that's the combination of components that engage/disengage the firing pin block, if I understand things correctly here, the firing pin block's default position is *block*, it's moved aside by that little round nubbin when the trigger is held fully back, allowing the firing pin to spring out and back, striking the primer, if pressure is released on the nubbin, the block re-engages

hmm, so this firearm has *multiple* safeties, I shouldn't completely distrust it....

thumb safety; up is on, and physically prevents the slide from being racked, and prevents a full pull of the trigger or manual cocking of the hammer past the half-cocked position

Firing Pin Block; gun will not fire unless the trigger is held all the way back

Decocker; drops the hammer from Condition One to the half-cocked position and sets the trigger pull to double-action

Taurus Safety System; when engaged, prevents racking the slide or pulling the hammer past half-cocked, even when thumb safety is off

I guess I *WAS* overreacting, yet I still will never completely trust mechanical safeties

 

[dmazur]

I also don't trust safeties implicitly. I trust they aren't going to fail once engaged, or I could never carry a 1911 in Condition 1. However, I am very careful with the "unload and show clear" procedure when unloading a pistol.

For a 1911, for example, you have to take the safety off or you can't rack the slide to unload it. Then the unload procedure is:

Remove the magazine, then position the pistol "sideways" with the muzzle pointed somewhere safe, reach over the barrel with your L hand and grab the slide, click the safety off, rack the slide back and roll the chambered round into your palm. Optionally, engage the slide lock with your R thumb.

I practiced this with dummy rounds until I could do it in my sleep. It's amazing how much more confident this makes a person. (The Series 80 1911's have a firing pin safety that makes unloading, as well as accidental dropping, much safer. If the hammer slips, no firing pin movement, provided you didn't have your finger on the trigger...)

I don't have a pistol with a decocker, but I like the "pencil test" as a way to prove to yourself that nothing is moving in there that could impact the primer. Once you understand the design AND believe your individual gun is working in accordance with the design, you generally breathe easier.

Good luck!

 

[makarovnik]

Yup.

 

[SamG.]

Yes

 

[mgkdrgn]

The single most effective safety device ever made is the one between your ears. It trumps all others every time.

Oddly enough, it can also make any and all other safety devices so much useless hardware. Go figure.

 

[skinewmexico]

Another yes.

 

[Poor East Texan]

The S&W 469 I use as a truck gun has a slide mounted lever. It drops and BLOCKS the hammer on the down stroke. I then take it off safe because if I have to use it I want to pull through a DA stroke and FIRE!

The hammer sits flush in the slide and to be truthful I know not how safe the gun is hammer down and off safe... but it hasn't ever gone bang yet without a full pull.

EDIT: I shall be testing a few things!

 

[BlindJustice]

As paranoid and untrusting of proven mechanical devices
how can you even to begin to consider loading ammo by yourself.

R-

 

[SDDL-UP]

Always let the slide loose at full speed. Yes you are overreacting... and multiple redundancies is redundant!