American Legion Bans Guns!

[lemaymiami]

During my career in law enforcement I was always armed and that included late, late nights in one watering hole or other.... Looking back on it, that might not have been the best idea I ever had.

As far as veterans groups.... the only "hangup" I brought home with me from my senior trip in 1971 was a complete aversion to veterans social groups of any kind. As a result I've always avoided them. They're all fine groups but you won't ever see me at any of them, period. Since my son is in the armed forces today I'm glad that our country has done it's best to make up for how we were treated all those years ago.

 

[jcwit]

Yeah, I know that liquor and gun's don't mix, but to tell members they cannot carry on with a sign just open's them up to be robbed or the patron's to be assaulted/mugged in the parking lot. This Legion is also located in one of the worst neighborhoods in town. I personally would not be in that parking lot alone and unarmed at night. YMMV

Then obviously I would stay away from that post armed or unarmed.

I really try to keep myself from being in dangerous situations and areas.

 

[The Bushmaster]

Well damn!! I drink and carry daily and haven't shot anyone or myself. I might mention this is in my home. But...That said...It is legal, in Missouri, to carry in bars and restraunts that serve booze and even tip a few as long as you don't do anything stupid.

 

[Pizzapinochle]

akv3g4n, I don't disagree that those incident may or may not be 100% proof one way or another. My point is that statements like this:

"There were lots of opinions like yours, and they were all wrong. There hasn't been any incidents on the news about any problems, and you know the media would have been all over it."

(emphasis added)

Are almost certainly not true. THe fact that HexHead has not been informed of any incidents does not mean they have not occurred and blanket statements like "Everyone who disagrees with me is wrong" are, in most cases, incorrect, especially when issued in response to a fairly innocous statement like "guns and alcohol don't mix," which I think nearly every firearm safety instructor in the country would agree with.

But, if you want an incident that more closely fits your criteria (except for geography, happened in FL, not TN)

http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/Officials-Continue-Probing-Bar-Shooting-124853099.html

CCW holder pulls his gun in a bar. Security tells him to drop it, he doesn't, shootout ensues, 2 dead, 10 injured.

And that doesn't PROVE anything either, except that blanket statements like "THEY WERE ALL WRONG" and "THERE HASN'T BEEN ANY INCIDENTS" are probably not true.

 

[Drail]

So one Post banned guns? I would almost be willing to bet that no one is going to be searched going into the building. I wouldn't sweat this "news" too much. They probably did this as some kind of "symbolic" gesture for the town council. A Post in my town had a goofball come in and try to rob the patrons at gunpoint. Let's just say he never made to the exit.

 

[steve4102]

A Post in my town had a goofball come in and try to rob the patrons at gunpoint. Let's just say he never made to the exit.

Good for them. To bad the members of this "club" will be left as Sittin Ducks and the BGs will most likely make it to the exit and then some.

It didn't work for movie goers, it didn't work for teachers and students, what makes the Legion think it will work for old retired Veterans.

 

[Beentown]

HexHead-

apparently you missed these incidents.

3 people in a shotout in a TN bar:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/02/26/police-1-killed-20-injured-in-shooting-at-tennessee-nightclub/

State legislator who sponsored the bill pulled over drunk carrying a gun:
http://www.nashvillescene.com/pitw/...r-rep-curry-todd-caught-drunk-with-loaded-gun

And that was what I found with a two minute google.

Also, given that Memphis has some of the highest murder, assault, and violent crime rates in the country, I doubt every incident makes the news.

I researched the above article used and it is a HORRIBLE choice. This was a party for two basketball teams....cough. Young men that were not licensed to carry.

www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/27tennessee-nightclub-shooting_n_1305092.html

If the Huff runs an article about it and doesn't mention CHL's involved then...they weren't.

 

[X-Rap]

Minnesota did it right when they passed their law and minimized the gun free zones. There are a few others like it and good for them. So far as the "blood will run in the streets" big brother lovers, I mean really. Posting bar shootouts that have jack squat to do with any permit holders or a drunk legislator or the FL incident in which the state already declares its bars as gun free.
We as gun owners either decide and delare that as a whole we are able to control ourselves in church, in bars/resturaunts, in public parks, public meetings etc. or we need to fold up the tent and throw in the towel. The Legion has its right to ban and that is a matter for its patrons but to pile on with this self rightious crap about where one should be able to be armed is to self defeating and belongs more on an anti forum than here.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Memphis has some of the highest murder, assault, and violent crime rates in the country, I doubt every incident makes the news.

Memphis' crime rate is a stark contrast to many parts of East Tennessee (talking rate 100,000 population per year). When a New York City magazine editor visited my hometown in 1999, he arrived at the Meadowview Convention Center when there was a gunshow, and he wrote about it in a widely reprinted editorial. He offered to let us keep our rifle and shotguns if we agreed to a near ban on handguns and adopt federally NYC style handgun laws. My hometown (pop 48,000) had gone three years without a murder, the county (pop 148,000) had had no homicides. If you cut the old Deep South, ex-CSA, yellow-dog Democrat West Tennessee especially Memphis out of the Tennessee crime states, Tennessee's position in the US crime stats drops. Memphis has a lot in common with NYC, especially an anti-gun press and police leadership.

The Memphis Commercial Appeal as a public service maintains a searchable data base of all Tennessee Handgun Carry Permit THCP holders. At first offended, I took to running the names of arrestees in gun crimes and reckless gun use incidents as they were reported in the local newspaper: no hits on gun violence perpetrators in the THCP list (similar names can be eliminated by comparing DOB in the card dataset with age listed in the newspaper accounts). This was supposed to help warn Commercial Appeal readers of whom might have a gun carry permit; it does not warn them about people who do bad acts with guns, because it is obvious they seldomn get permits.

...most of these "social" organizations - whether AMVETS, VFW, Elks, Moose, etc., are nothing more than a private bar...

For a number of members/patrons that is true. For the local leaders of the organizations that is an important consideration. Until 1968 my local area was dry, except for state-licensed social organizations that operated bar and dining areas. My father was in the VFW and he was a member of the Military Order of the Cootie: they had shriner type shirts and regalia, rule book, and their major function was to go to the military hospitals and entertain disabled veterans. For some, yeah, VFW was/is just a bar (as shown in an episode of "Justified") but for some VFW was/is more.

 

[Pizzapinochle]

If you cut the old Deep South, ex-CSA, yellow-dog Democrat West Tennessee especially Memphis out of the Tennessee crime states, Tennessee's position in the US crime stats drops.

This is going a bit off topic, but that is really true of any state. If you remove the highest density population areas, the states overall crime rate will drop significantly.

Take Detroit out of Michigan...
Take Dallas out of Texas...
Take Baltimore out of Maryland...
Take Miami or Jacksonville out of Florida...
Take Kansas City out of Missourri...
Take Chicago out of Illinois...
etc. etc.

To be meaningful, you would have to remove the highest denisty population areas from ALL states and then do a comparison, which would just be comparing the rural crime rates of all states. That is worth doing, but you will find that all states have low rural crime rates relative to their urban crime rates, that is a pretty uniform characterisitc of crime rates, Tennessee would not be unique in that respect.

 

[steve4102]

We as gun owners either decide and delare that as a whole we are able to control ourselves in church, in bars/resturaunts, in public parks, public meetings etc. or we need to fold up the tent and throw in the towel. The Legion has its right to ban and that is a matter for its patrons but to pile on with this self rightious crap about where one should be able to be armed is to self defeating and belongs more on an anti forum than here.

Very well put, thanks for that!

 

[paramedic70002]

I can't speak to this particular location, but the AL hall closest to me is frequently rented out by certain troublesome groups which often result in rioting and shooting with large police response from mutual aid jurisdictions. And this is in a small town, albeit in a high crime area of that town. And we all know that those signs work with near 100% effectiveness, as long as they are augmented by a magnetometer and armed security.

 

[gym]

Do what you can to petition for a vote. If they refuse then you either take them to court , demonstrate, "if you have enough support", or quit.
That's about all your choices.

 

[Ryanxia]

Oh your designated driver who's a member wants to come in but wants to exercise his Constitutional Right? NAAAAAAH, ****.

Did I bout sum it up?

 

[351 WINCHESTER]

That sign isn't going to reduce cc by much I'll bet. They probably did it for insurance purposes.

 

[coloradokevin]

Here in Colorado (despite all of the recent anti-gun press) we can still legally carry into alcohol establishments. It has never created any significant problems that I'm aware of. In this state the "no carry" signs do not carry a force of law. I think that's important, because when the signs start popping up at a lot of places it really makes it impractical for a lot of people to carry at all...

 

[Trung Si]

While I think its more than a little hypocritical, it is a private club and it is their rules, don't like it go elsewhere.

Same situation as if you do not like the rules at a private range.

Can I get an AMEN?

 

[PavePusher]

Deleted.

 

[PavePusher]

Note that this same private club is also smoke free. Anyone surprised?

That may be a matter of state law for bars/restaurants/businesses.

 

[PavePusher]

Responsible guns owners generally agree that guns and alcohol are a poor mix. So from another angle, the cry of hypocrisy might be directed toward gun owners that want it both ways.

So, don't drink while carrying. Is that difficult?

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

^^^^Wondering, do all state enforce this on their police officers?

 

[Torian]

Gun free zones are just a pointless "feel good" measure enacted by those who fail to understand the criminal mind.

That said...yes they can apply whatever policies they choose since it is on private property. I also think they should get ALL the bad publicity they are getting...so they have a clear understanding of the consequences of their actions.

This organization, just like the VFW, is struggling to maintain their ever-aging member base. The last thing thing this group should want to do is alienate a bunch of potential new members. Even if it is just one post doing this...it is a big deal to those of us who take our rights a seriously as we do.

 

[oneounceload]

Can you carry into an establishment (in CO) that is purely a bar? Here in FL, we cannot, but we can carry into a place like Applebees, even have a drink, but are not allowed to sit "at the bar" while carrying concealed. IME, the VFW, AMVET etc., are nothing more than a private bar/club

 

[MErl]

No restrictions on location due to booze but you may not have anything to drink. Sorry cannot quickly find the cite for the second part of that statement.

18-12-214. Authority granted by permit - carrying restrictions

(1) (a) A permit to carry a concealed handgun authorizes the permittee to carry a concealed handgun in all areas of the state, except as specifically limited in this section. A permit does not authorize the permittee to use a handgun in a manner that would violate a provision of state law. A local government does not have authority to adopt or enforce an ordinance or resolution that would conflict with any provision of this part 2.

(b) A peace officer may temporarily disarm a permittee, incident to a lawful stop of the permittee. The peace officer shall return the handgun to the permittee prior to discharging the permittee from the scene.

(2) A permit issued pursuant to this part 2 does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun into a place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law.

(3) A permit issued pursuant to this part 2 does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun onto the real property, or into any improvements erected thereon, of a public elementary, middle, junior high, or high school; except that:

(a) A permittee may have a handgun on the real property of the public school so long as the handgun remains in his or her vehicle and, if the permittee is not in the vehicle, the handgun is in a compartment within the vehicle and the vehicle is locked;

(b) A permittee who is employed or retained by contract by a school district as a school security officer may carry a concealed handgun onto the real property, or into any improvement erected thereon, of a public elementary, middle, junior high, or high school while the permittee is on duty;

(c) A permittee may carry a concealed handgun on undeveloped real property owned by a school district that is used for hunting or other shooting sports.

(4) A permit issued pursuant to this part 2 does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun into a public building at which:

(a) Security personnel and electronic weapons screening devices are permanently in place at each entrance to the building;

(b) Security personnel electronically screen each person who enters the building to determine whether the person is carrying a weapon of any kind; and

(c) Security personnel require each person who is carrying a weapon of any kind to leave the weapon in possession of security personnel while the person is in the building.

(5) Nothing in this part 2 shall be construed to limit, restrict, or prohibit in any manner the existing rights of a private property owner, private tenant, private employer, or private business entity.

(6) The provisions of this section apply to temporary emergency permits issued pursuant to section 18-12-209.

 

[MattShlock]

Try going to a range or shooting festival in Germany and tel EVERYONE beer and guns don't mix.

And the American Legion lied, tried to cover up, and lied again... Yes, they ARE anti-Second Amendment at that post. Did they yank them off the walls and outta the displays? Paint over the images of them in the pictures!?