American-made Sig P210 Target

[RugerOldArmy]

I couldn't resist, yet again, and bought one of the new American-made Sig "P210 Target" pistols. I passed the background check, yet again, and can pick it up monday.

Anybody else get one of these?

They have a hard reputation to live up to, compared to the old swiss ones, but I actually like some of the new features, over the old ones. (1911 style safety, beavertail, etc.) Hopefully the ones we make here are as accurate as the classics, and the key accuracy aspects of the design (such as the slide running inside the frame) seem intact. The slide was like glass, the trigger very nice.

I hoping this will serve as a good Bullseye match pistol at the range. I used to use a 1911, or my Smith Model 19s. The sights on this Sig will be a great help for my old eyes.

Compared to another dedicated STI/SVI 1911 build, these seem to be a great deal, and the somewhat tweaked classic design might give them a run for the money. I have high hopes.

Pics up Monday or Tuesday.

https://www.sigsauer.com/store/p210-target.html

 

[RugerOldArmy]

Kind of a nice reassuring review

 

[Walt Sherrill]

They have a hard reputation to live up to, compared to the old swiss ones, but I actually like some of the new features, over the old ones. (1911 style safety, beavertail, etc.) Hopefully the ones we make here are as accurate as the classics, and the key accuracy aspects of the design (such as the slide running inside the frame) seem intact. The slide was like glass, the trigger very nice.

I've heard nothing but good about these guns. My only experience with the 210 was a P-210-6 I owned some years back, and it was outstanding. If I ever win the lottery, I'll get one of these newer ones -- but will spend my money on great-shooting less expensive guns in the meantime.

I've begun to wonder whether the slide inside the rails is really much of a factor with regard to accuracy. I've had several guns with that feature, including Stars and CZs (and the P-210), and have never noticed any changes in performance as the guns heated up -- supposedly a variable that affected accuracy. The P226-X5 and the P220-X5 have slide that ride outside the frame and they're known for stellar accuracy, too. (The reason I question the importance of the slide riding inside the frame is that the bullet is gone from the barrel before the slide has moved maybe a 1/10" of an inch.) The inside-the-frame feature might contribute to more consistent lockup, but I've seen nothing, yet, that really proves that argument.

Consistent lockup seems to be a far greater factor, and the SIG P-210 seems to have that (as do the X-Five and X-6 series of SIG) -- all are very well fit. Many guns that are also very accurate, like 1911s used in Bullseye, and the "tweaked" Berettas the Army Marksmanship Team don't have slides inside the frame but are wonderful pieces of precision machinery.

Like you, I like the changed safety position/design and the mag release.

 

[RugerOldArmy]

Hi Walt. Good points, as I've always seen from you over the years.

I've CZ(s) too...I like the slide inside the frame design, but, like you, I'm unsure how it impacts accuracy.

I don't know if you looked at the YouTube by Hickok45, but he did remove the slide. You may know better than I, but aren't the barrel lugs different on these new American Sig 210s? It looked like an approach that might be easier to make accurate than the old P210s...but I've only handled one, many years ago...a Swiss one.

I much prefer the 1911 safety and mag release...I don't like the front slide serrations on the American. Between the Swiss, German, and the American, strictly from an aesthetic point of view I preferred the recent German versions with the 1911 Safety, but the full length dust cover. The older Swiss versions had a 150mm barrel, instead of the 127mm barrel, but even a 5.0"-ish barrel gives a nice sight radius and ought to wring out decent velocity from 9x19.

Don't get me wrong on my criticism of the American 210...I think I'll love this pistol, should it be nearly as accurate as folks say. I'm optimistic...and so far, I think their a good value...a decent/good Bullseye 1911 would have likely run me another 1K$ all tuned up for 200 gr H&G wadcutters. These American's are running $1500-ish...much less than I've seen the older Swiss or German ones. Not a bad deal compared to a custom 1911 for a bullseye match tool, IMO.

I've handled the X5(s)...and kind of liked them...they just seemed 'bulkier' to me.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

I've handled the X5(s)...and kind of liked them...they just seemed 'bulkier' to me.

Bulky, heavy, and downright gorgeous. A serious competition gun, to be sure, and not something that most would want to carry all day long.

I had a P226 X-Five (in .40) for a while, but could never get in step with that gun. It was ANIB when I got it, and it was badly oversprung. Just releasing the slide was a two-thumb process for me. I could never shoot it that well, but others found it very accurate. I traded it to a local forum member who had tremendous hand strength, and he eventually traded it away, too. He was a pretty savvy home-gunsmith and had done some beautiful work on the guns he traded me for it... but he later said "it didn't meet his needs."

With the P226 X5, I talked with SIG several time about getting a less strong recoil spring, and they eventually sent me one that was lighter, but still not light enough. You can't use the standard P226 recoil springs, as the recoil spring assembly (the whole mechanism) is quite different for the X-Five and X-Six models. And getting any kind of spare parts was (then) a real pain for any of the 210 or X-Five/X-Six guns.

I once waited almost a year for a P-210 magazine from SIG and eventually cancelled the order -- and sold the gun. The P210 mag was around $100 at the time, from SIG, and there were few or no after-market options. I did find one that looked like crap (brand new), but with a bunch of tweaking and cutting, eventually got it to work. That part of P-210 ownership was not fun -- I suspect that now they're being made in the US, things will be a bit better.

 

[RugerOldArmy]

FWIW..one thing, perhaps the thing that really sold me on splurging for a gun I already admired, was the sights. The fiber front sight and the nice narrow/fine-grained rear adjustable sight seemed really nice for these old eyes...especially for a bullseye gun. It seemed really easy, in the store to put that bright green front in that nice narrow rear, and easily center it.

As much as I could appreciate an older Swiss 210, that front blade would never be as good for these old eyes, nor would I have the heart to change it out.

I'm sure my old Smith Model 19(s) give me all the accuracy my limited skill can offer...but the sights aren't as good to my old eyes, even though they're not bad sights. It is just age.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Be sure to post some pics when you bring her home. I've been ogling these since they were released.

 

[ifit]

Wow...Congrats on the purchase
Shot one years ago..and really appreciate the quality/feel/accuracy of the pistol, One day I will own one.
Appreciate pics and your review

 

[Walkalong]

I would love to have one, I wonder if anyone makes a red dot mount for them, I suppose it could go in place of the rear sight.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

It's hard to realize that the P210 line started out as a service weapon for the Swiss Army and police.. People were still buying surplus M49s some years ago because they held up well (virtually nothing wears out) and were as nicely fit as the later commercial models. You don't see them for sale much, any more -- and it's mostly some C&R collectors and real hard-core SIG enthusiasts who are even aware of them. The M49s (and P210) were all thin, relatively light (given that they were all steel), and very reliable.

The only problem was that the M49s (i.e., P210s) were EXPENSIVE to make and Swiss finally decided they couldn't keep using them. SIG created the SIG P220 to replace them (and to be much less expensive and meet a much wider market.) That led to the P-5 and then to a bunch of double-stack SIGs.

 

[Rock185]

Over a period of 30+ years, I've had some of the Swiss, then more recently, German P210s. But based on early owner's positive reports, bought one of the American guns a few months ago. I was pleasantly surprised at the overall quality, clean machine work, precise fit of component parts, trigger,etc. The American version does have a different type of barrel lock up, similar to regular production SIGs, and MIM lockwork parts. But have to say, the barrel/slide fit is equal to my Swiss 210-6, and slide to frame fit is closer. Mine is just used for relaxing afternoons at the range, not competition, carry,etc. Much as I've always liked the 210s, I think there are more practical guns for carry and most types of competition. In any case, I've enjoyed my American P210, glad I bought it , and it has not given me any reason to consider selling or trading it. In fact, if it came down to it, I'd sell or trade the Swiss P210 first.........ymmv

 

[John G C 1]

I have shot about one hundred rounds through one of the new American made ones. It was wonderful and accurate.

The grip is larger than the grip on the last incarnation of the P210, but it is comfortable. I have small hands and it just took some getting used to.

The pistol has been out now for at least a few months, maybe more, but there are still not a lot of them on Gunbroker. I do not know why. It would seem that if they are in production and shipping out there should be at least 6 of them on Gunbroker at any one time?????

I plan to get one down the road after they become more available. Enjoy it. It is a nice pistol and very soft shooting.

 

[bannockburn]

RugerOldArmy

Would love to have a P210; wouldn't matter all that much to me where it was built.

Of course if I could get one it would have to be predicated by those 5 little words..."When I win the lottery"!

 

[RugerOldArmy]

Rock185... what kind of 9x19 loads does your P210 like?

I've never really considered 9x19 as a "target" cartridge. Perhaps rather than my 'standard' 9x19 loads for my BHP/CZ(s)/Kimber, I should look at a subsonic load for accuracy? Have you tried 147 Gr ammo at 980 or so fps?

All my other 9mm's really seem to like the old Stephen Camp 'Pet Load' (Unique/124 Gr. Hornady XTP). This may warrant the development of a subsonic load with heavier bullets.

Looks like I'll be working up a test load... or twelve.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

I've never really considered 9x19 as a "target" cartridge.

I know that 9x19 has never been considered a particularly accurate round, but I wonder if that lack of reputation might not be more due to the weapons in which it's used (mostly service pistols) than due to the round itself.

My P-210-6 (which I sold about 15 years ago in a time of financial hardship) came with a factory proof target showing a five shot group of about 1.75" at 50 meters (or roughly 55 yards.) I've seen other P-210 proof targets (for guns owned by friends) that had smaller groups at the same distance. I never tried it at that distance, but could get very small groups at 30' and 15 yards. My eyes, nowadays, aren't good for much more than 25 yards.

 

[Rock185]

Within my humble experience, the 9X19MM is very accurate in accurate pistols. Just as Walt Sherrill suggests. I don't have a machine rest, but shooting carefully as I can from the bench, over a rest, I've not been able to determine .45 or 9MM to be consistently more accurate than the other. This, using Colt Gold Cup, Les Baer, Clark accurized Colt Government, Wilson, SIG,etc. pistols in .45 ACP, and SIG X-5, P210, HK P9S target Models in .45 and 9MM, HK P7, some accurate 1911s,etc. in 9MM. RugerOldArmy, the 147s have proven very accurate in any 9MM pistol I've used them in, both factory and hand loaded. Among the very best groups I ever shot with any 9MM, were handloads utilizing the Sierra 115 JHC ( later listed as JHP) bullets. For years though, the factory Federal 115 JHP has proven to be a dependable performer for me, displaying excellent accuracy in all my 9MMs, including the P210s. This, coupled with boring reliability in my 9MM pistols, revolvers, and a Marlin carbine, has made the Federal 115 a favorite of mine.

 

[WVsig]

It is my understanding that the new American made P210 is a P210 in looks and name only. They really changed the internal design of the pistol, the lock work, the process and the materials used to make the gun. That does not mean they are not producing a nice accurate gun but is it really still a P210? I was interested until I discovered all of the fundamental changes made to the platform. Sort of like calling the P225A1 a P225. It really isn't the same gun.

 

[Walkalong]

That does not mean they are not producing a nice accurate gun but is it really still a P210? I was interested until I discovered all of the fundamental changes made to the platform.

Meh, I am still interested, no matter what they call it and what internal changes were made.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

That does not mean they are not producing a nice accurate gun but is it really still a P210? I was interested until I discovered all of the fundamental changes made to the platform.

Maybe they should have named it the P-211? You seem to be assuming that the new gun, just because it's different, isn't as good (or, possibly, better) than the original P-210. I think the jury is still out on THAT verdict.

 

[WVsig]

No not at all I just commenting on what my research into the gun yielded. From all reports they are excellent shooters but I am not sure that people realize the differences in the pistol. Am I wrong in my understanding that these are not parts compatible with the German or Swiss made guns?

It seems very similar to the US 556 rifles vs the Swiss 556 rifles. Same name but not the same gun. The US 556 is/was a good rifle but it was not the Swiss rifle that earned the 556 reputation.

 

[Kp321]

I got mine about a month ago. Immediately went to the range with every 9 mm load I had. At least 300 rounds later, I have yet to have a malfunction of any type which is outstanding for a new pistol right out of the box. I got reasonable accuracy with all 125 gr loads but it really came alive with 147's.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

You earlier mentioned that the folks who buy the P-225A1 aren't getting a P-225. True, but I suspect that in most respects the P-225A1 might be a better weapon than the P-225. I also suspect, that the folks who are enthused about the P-225A1 feel that way because the updated version of the P-225 feels, in hand, like a P-225, shoots like one (if not better), and still shares the same basic design parameters.

[The newer P210] seems very similar to the US 556 rifles vs the Swiss 556 rifles. Same name but not the same gun. The US 556 is/was a good rifle but it was not the Swiss rifle that earned the 556 reputation.

Comparing almost any quality Swiss-made weapon to something built elsewhere and expecting the non-Swiss-made gun to match up is generally a losing proposition.

Swiss gunmakers have a well-deserved reputation as master craftsmen, but the Swiss firearms industry appears not to have mastered the knack of using modern technology to turn out guns that are as good as the ones that required a lot of hand fitting and attention.

The new Sphinx line (you have several, I think, and I've had several of the older 2000-series Sphinx models and still have a Sphinx SDP) seemed to be moving in that more-modern direction. The changes to the basic Sphinx design was done to make the guns better suited for the newer technology without intentionally giving up on the gun's overall quality. .But, as has happened a number of times before with these marvelous Swiss made guns, the manufacturer failed financially. Hopefully the new American-based company building the Sphinx line will pull it off. I haven't seen any of the US-made versions of the Sphinx guns, yet, but remain curious and hopeful.

It might just be that SIG, with the new US- and German-made P210 series, is doing what the Swiss were unable to to do -- adapting the basic design to move the P210 out of artisan shop into the modern factory -- allowing the guns to be sold at a price level that doesn't force them out of the market.

 

[RugerOldArmy]

... They really changed the internal design of the pistol, the lock work, the process and the materials used to make the gun. That does not mean they are not producing a nice accurate gun but is it really still a P210? ...

To each his own, but I, for one, am very glad the mag release was relocated/improved, the safety was improved, and the sights are improved. Those changes significantly improve the design from a use perspective, IMO.

 

[someguy2800]

That is a beautiful pistol and the price ain't bad. I'm adding this to my list.

 

[Kookla]

I love the way it looks. I've been interested in the p-210 ever since I read what Masaad Ayoob wrote about them in his Sig book. It's nice to see a classy target pistol come out, these days everything is so tactical.