Ammunition for shooting through a barrier.

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Alllen Bundy

Alllen Bundy

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I've been wondering about the possibility of needing to shoot an assailant through a barrier. Are hollow point bullets even likely going to go through a barrier? Perhaps I should be carrying some FMJ rounds just in case.

I've been carrying with a total of Four 14 round magazines and one in the chamber. So I could carry one magazine loaded with FMJ rounds and three mags loaded with hollow point ammunition.

I have been carrying Sig Elite Performance 9 MM 115 gr hollow point ammunition with a muzzle velocity of 1,185 FPS, mainly because that was the best ammunition that was reliably available to me at the local gun shop. But ammunition availability has been improving and my friendly neighborhood gun shop is now stocking Sig 9 MM 124 gr NATO rounds in both JHP and FMJ with a muzzle velocity of 1,198 FPS. I'm planning to try it.

The reason that I carry with four magazines is mainly worries about mostly peaceful protesters. But if I ever encountered mostly peaceful protesters that were trying to do me harm and I needed to use the 4th magazine, the chances are that the mostly peaceful protesters would NOT be innocent bystanders, so over-penetration would not be such a serious issue.

Do any of you carry with both JHP and FMJ ammunition?

What are your thoughts on the issues of shooting through a barrier and ammunition choices?
 
Alllen Bundy said:
possibility of needing to shoot an assailant through a barrier. Are hollow point bullets even likely going to go through a barrier? Perhaps I should be carrying some FMJ rounds just in case.
Click to expand...
In my 20s, a shooting buddy fairly new to guns was "cleaning" his Star Compact 45ACP loaded with Federal Hydra-Shok JHP ammunition when he hooked the trigger and discharged the pistol.

The hollow point penetrated the outside wall of his second story apartment building with stucco exterior (1/2" thick concrete-like material), penetrated the stuccoed outside wall of adjacent apartment building occupied by his friend and embedded in the wood frame of the couch. (Nobody was injured)

The embedded bullet had to be dug out and showed the hollow point cavity was filled with drywall material and minimally expanded.

For me personally, I use HP ammunition that's been tested to reliably expand shot through layers of denim before ballistic gel.
 
I don't carry FMJ nor would I have FMJ in a spare mag. (That statement includes 45 acp - No FMJ - If I carried 32 or 380 I'd include those too, but I don't carry those)

Manufacturer data including barrier performance:
Winchester Ranger:
https://winchesterle.com/-/media/Pr...gun-Bullet-Barrier-Testing-Protocol_2016.ashx
If we are talking auto glass the 9mm 147 Bonded

Federal Gold Dot / HST:
http://www.le.vistaoutdoor.com/wound_ballistics/load_comparison/load_comparison.aspx
Auto glass? The 9mm 147 Gold Dot
 
Hollow points usually just fill with the material you shoot through such as wood or drywall. Sheet metal usually closes the hollow point so that it's a smaller hollow area. In most cases the bullet then acts like a FMJ. No need to ever carry FMJ because your JHP will probably become FMJ anyway.

As far as shooting what you can not see, I wouldn't. As said, the bad guy needs to be identified and still an extreme threat to you before you shoot. That's a bigger can of worms discussion but the hollow point issue is pretty simple.
 
I've considered this issue before, with auto body penetration, because commuting is one of my higher risk/more frequent activities around unknown individuals. I came to two realizations. The first is that I probably won't need to penetrate a car to defend myself, and can simply take cover and wait. Secondly, ammunition that is on the heavy side for caliber, that tends to penetrate more towards 18" in gel tests, and that expands a moderate amount (rather than a gigantic petalled flower), will like penetrate such things fairly well anyway.
 
Don't shoot what you can't see, don't mix up ammunition for your carry piece. You will not remember to swap mags back and forth, and if the firefight is that intense, you probably won't have time. Also, you are carrying more ammunition than what the cops carry, and more than I have ever seen anyone carry in a war zone for a handgun- even if the only weapon they have is the handgun.
 
Carry a backup gun in .44 Mag and another in FN 5.7. That'll cover most shoot through scenarios. Bring at least 60 rds. for each......... Oh, and you'll need a gunfire trained donkey or goat to pack your ammo. ;)
 
I think the OP is over thinking it. That said a simple solution is go shoot through some barriers and see how you favorite carry ammo performs. I understand the desire to ask on a forum and that is a good place to start but go shoot stuff too. It's fun and you learn things.
 
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Hartkopf said:
Be constructive Mr. Grump Pants. :D
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OK, Don't leave the house if you feel the need to carry over 50 rounds of ammo. Heck get a bigger caliber or carry a rifle.

Rem Golden Sabers were always advertised as boned for barrier penetration.
I mean with a name like that and a product overview like this, what could be better?!!

How that?

Product Overview


Formerly a law enforcement only product, Golden Saber Bonded is now available to the public. The ultimate in defensive and tactical handgun ammunition, these rounds utilize exclusive technology to produce match-grade accuracy and optimal terminal performance.

Improving on trusted Golden Saber, Golden Saber Bonded’s reduced bullet nose diameter, optimized jacket thickness, and Remington bonded-bullet manufacturing process produces unmatched expansion, weight-retention and barrier-blind performance to keep you safe.

Loaded in the USA, Golden Saber Bonded is available in 357 Sig, 9mm Luger, 40 S&W and 45 Auto.



  • Lead core hot-bonded to brass jacket
  • Exceptional weight retention
  • Reduced bullet nose diameter for precise bore alignment and match-grade accuracy
  • Requires less energy to initiate expansion
  • Loaded in the USA
  • Available in 357 Sig, 9mm, 40 S&W, 45 Auto
 
I certainly agree with the "don't shoot at what you can't see" philosophy. But what about shooting at something you can kind of see?

Someone could be blind firing around a doorway, or over the trunk of a car. It's a threat, but the visible part of the target is very small.

*Edited for spelling
 
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JHP vs FMJ generally isnt going to mean much with barriers. Solid brass or copper might though.

I wouldn't bother. Select a .40 or .357 if barriers are a concern.

My reload mags are FMJ simply to cut cost of shooting my carry ammo away every other month or so. Pistols are all loaded with JHP. It never crossed my mind to swap mags around barriers, and I doubt itll make any difference at all.
 
Unlike the other guy, when my space ship arrived on earth, I lost my super power of X ray vision. Bummer.

So I cannot tell what is inbetween the surface of a barrier, and the exiting side. And given that, expecting full penetration with any ammunition is faith based. Still it might work and do the trick. If you have unlimited ammunition and good target location it is an option worth trying. If you want to shoot through barriers find something steel core. It won't expand worth a flip, but it will penetrate better.

Or, use one of these.

q3r7kf3.jpg
 
hso said:
Over-penetration is ALWAYS a serious issue.

Shooting through a "barrier" is action-adventure entertainment, NOT responsible defensive handgun use. No one in their right mind shoots at what they can't see.
Click to expand...

Not all barriers are opaque and people in their right minds (especially cops) shoot through barriers with some regularity to hit suspects including shooting through car windshields, car doors, etc. Must be a lot of cops out there not in their right minds.

FL-NC said:
Also, you are carrying more ammunition than what the cops carry, and more than I have ever seen anyone carry in a war zone for a handgun- even if the only weapon they have is the handgun.
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LOL, so what if he is carrying more? Unlike the cops and folks in combat, he isn't likely to be able to get on his radio and call in additional support. Unlike military folks, he isn't apt to running around with a group of well armed and well armored, highly trained battle buddies. He isn't likely to be wearing body armor or have any of those benefits. All he will have is himself and his gun/ammo.

For years, I carried a rifle in my car, more than what most cops carried. Then the cops got a clue.
 
Penetration...over penetration...

Two concepts I believe many are overly concerned about.

Why? Because it's been shown time and again that the vast majorty of shots fired in any given scenario do not hit their intended target.

It would be more productive to leverage any penetration concerns on being able to put more bullets on target for any given shooting event.

You cannot penetrate your intended target if you cannot hit it in the first place.

And missed rounds are a far greater danger than over penetrating rounds any day of the week.
 
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I would be curious if there is such a thing as a thick-jacket bonded FMJ/TMJ on the market. Most of the plated TMJ bullets have a much thinner jacket than traditional cup-and-core, like what is used in M882 9mm NATO 124 gr FMJ.
 
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