Ammunition for shooting through a barrier.

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Rule3 said:
OK, Don't leave the house if you feel the need to carry over 50 rounds of ammo. Heck get a bigger caliber or carry a rifle.

Rem Golden Sabers were always advertised as boned for barrier penetration.
I mean with a name like that and a product overview like this, what could be better?!!
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I'm waiting for them to come out with the Diamond Saber rounds. Cuts through barriers like a diamond saw blade!
 
Lotta old info out there. "Barrier blind" is the term you are looking for. You don't change ammo because there's a barrier, but — if that's a concern — you get a modern, barrier-blind round and use it exclusively. Luckily that's easy as most / all good duty hollow points have good intermediate barrier behavior.

From Doc Roberts' page on handgun ammo:
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?4337-Service-Caliber-Handgun-Duty-and-Self-Defense-Ammo

Bullet designs like the Silver Tip, Hydra-Shok, and Black Talon were state of the art 15 or 20 years ago. These older bullets tend to plug up and act like FMJ projectiles when shot through heavy clothing; they also often have significant degradation in terminal performance after first passing through intermediate barriers. Modern ammunition which has been designed for robust expansion against clothing and intermediate barriers is significantly superior to the older designs. The bullets in the Federal Classic and Hydrashok line are outperformed by other ATK products such as the Federal Tactical and HST, as well as the Speer Gold Dot; likewise Winchester Ranger Talons are far superior to the old Black Talons or civilian SXT's.​

In the last decade or so, ammo engineers have produced a superb generation of 9 mm projectiles that offer penetration in the ideal range and that are capable of good performance after common intermediate barriers. As many agencies are discovering, modern robust expanding, barrier blind 9 mm ammunition is performing on par with larger caliber handgun loads, but offers substantial fiscal and training benefits. ​

I carry Gold Dots and have no concerns, from this testing and lots of anecdote, about intermediate barriers, heavy clothing, etc.
 
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Slamfire said:
That's what the Shooting Industrial Complex teaches. You can compensate for lack of skills by buying expensive equipment. Works every time, people buy the expensive equipment, but don't practice.
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Isn’t that true about most everything? A new camera makes you a great photographer, a new sports car makes you a great driver, …. If you look at genre specific magazines, they are all selling that the latest and greatest make you so much better. Anyway I agree with you, but don’t think it’s limited to guns.

To the OP, I have seen (on video) riots where a platoon of Marines would not be able to protect you. I think that if it really gets that dire, the odds of you surviving to load a fourth mag would be very small.
 
Obviously, you don't shoot through barriers where you don't know what is on the other side. But gunfights rarely happen like the opening scene of Gunsmoke where 2 guys face off in the street. People hide behind stuff making much less of them visible. Putting a bullet through some other object in order to stop an aggressor is very much a possibility. Heavy winter clothing is another factor.

Barrier penetration is the biggest reason the military chose 9mm over 45 ACP. Testing showed 9mm did a much better job of penetrating heavy clothing, barriers and helmets than 45. The current military load of a 124 gr FMJ at around 1200-1250 fps does pretty good. The Russians have developed a 9mm round using a 65 gr bullet at just under 2000 fps that is designed to penetrate body armor.

I don't know what is BEST. What works best in one situation may not work well in another. And I prefer to avoid FMJ. In 9mm I'd think a decent 124 gr bullet at close to 1200 fps or a 147 gr at around 1000 fps would be acceptable choices.

why would someone be shooting at you behind a car?
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During an attempted carjacking you may have to shoot through glass windows from the inside to defend yourself.
 
I'd use my pistol just to keep there heads down until I could get to my rifle. That would have the penetrating ability that I needed.
 
If you're talking about punching holes in cars, there aren't many rounds that will out perform 7.62X25 FMJ rounds. But the FMJ bullets are a poor choice for a carry gun. Great for ventilating a car, lousy for putting down bad guys hopped up on drugs.
 
I carry either Buffalo Bore 147 grain +P hard cast or standard velocity 115 grain Lehigh Xtreme Penetrators in my 9mm handguns when in the woods. I have shot a bunch of mixed media combinations, including 2X4s, steel sheet metal, ribs, meat, water jugs, wallboard and gel with them, and they dig deep and penetrate against most things the average person will run across in their daily lives. If you do some searches about those rounds, you should find lots of forum posts, videos and still photos of stuff that I and others have posted about these rounds.
 
bdickens said:
My plan is to not be there. Its not like a bunch of protesters turned rioters materialize out of nowhere.
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2020-2021 Seattle, riots we popping up everywhere. Roads we being blocked. I had all my flags ready, anything to not have to go to gun. Once you go to gun, you have lost the fight
 
Hartkopf said:
Newbies always seem to worry too much about equipment and not enough on improving their skills.
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A hazard of my trade is that I always think in terms of worst case scenarios. This has resulted into installing a bullet stop into my holster to prevent issues stemming from either a fire, which could cook off a round in the combustion chamber, or from a negligent discharge because of something stupid that I did.

If someone sticks their arm out from behind a barrier to shoot at you, you have a pretty good idea of where the rest of their body is located. Not to mention that if you put a bullet into the barrier, it is likely to produce a cloud of debris in front of your assailant.

I improve my skills as time and finances allow. While I cannot afford to go to the range as often as I would like, I do a considerably amount of reading online and do my own testing to confirm or debunk issues that people disagree upon. I'm doing the best that I can in my situation.

I have to thank everyone that has responded so far, as it has given me a considerable amount of information to consider. Even people that disagree with me are useful, as it forces me to come up with good reasons to support my position, or abandon a position because I was wrong.
 
Zerodefect said:
Watch some car jacking vids. They shoot the victim even as they're driving off. It's a nice bonus for them.

Guns out the whole time.
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oooh no… if I’m being carjacked, I’ll shooting thur the door.

I was referring to; if I seen someone stealing my car, from a far, no danger to my family of me. Take it bro! I got good insurance and would be cheaper then the legal fees that comes with all SD shooting
 
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