Amount of rounds fired in home invasion

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dom1104

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You know I was listening to that 911 call from the family in AZ that the husband and daughter got shot by the Minutemen, and it occored to me a few things.


1 is it was 20 minutes + she was on the 911 call before the cops got there.

2 is that when the assailants returned, there was an exchange of gunfire, that drove them off. She had her husbands handgun and was apparently somewhat unfamiliar with it, in that she did not know what kind it was. Granted she was shot and just watched her husband and daughter die, so she could have possibly had forgotton.


Anyhow what occured to me is, they were driven off by the gunfire exchange, not her hitting any of them. This is kind of a ding in my mind against revolvers, or low capacity firearms for home defense. Especially in the hands of my wife. She needs to be able to shoot everytime she pulls the trigger, many times to drive off the bad guys. At least this is what I am thinking after listening to this 911 call.

Maybe my 9mm with its 15 rounds ISNT more bullets that I could possibly ever need. I am just glad its not a 5 round snub lemme put it that way.


I have also heard people say " if you arent fending off a whole mob" well this woman was, and lost her family to them. but succeeded in driving them off.

I dunno, maybe I am rambling. But I guess I am thinking that in some situations, as the world gets crazier, maybe 5 rounds is just not enough in the hands of an untrained family member.

Dom

EDIT: I mean, she had to fend off 3 bad guys, for 20+ minutes! yeesh the more I think about it what a nightmare.
 
you seem to have disproved what you're trying to prove:

if a fired round or two from the victim will make the attacker turn and run, why do you need / want something with high capacity?

and if you're concerned about the wife not hitting the target, go to a range, don't give her more shots!

my 2 cents.

TMM
 
Hmm, I dont think I meant to say there was only a round or two, it sounded like quite a few rounds were exchanged. Sorry if I implied that.
 
Do you have a link to that audio? Or an article?

I think you're right on. The 5rd snub is for daily carry. For HD, capacity is a necessity when a less than skilled wife is wielding the gun. I know that my wife has and can load magazines with ammo, and she knows how to change magazines, unlock the slide, etc., but that is at the range. In a situation like this, or just any HD situation where it is up to her alone to do the dirty work, I'd rather that she have 15-20 rounds of fire available right when she grabs the pistol. The last thing she'll think of is to grab an extra mag as she heads to the safe place to hold up.

...don't give her more shots!
Click to expand...

Seriously? You'd prefer she have fewer? I'm all for more range time, but wives are hard to train sometimes. I know she can operate her pistols, but she isn't interested or serious enough to become proficient in any way. It would be wonderful if she was skilled enough that a six-shooter wouldn't ever find its last round, but until then, I'll feel safer if she can operate the thing upwards of twenty times in a row, and well enough to stay alive. Rather than run a little gun dry and have to make her way back to a box of ammo or magazine, I'll have her equipped with enough gun.
 
CoRoMo, i guess i didn't quite word my post right. you do have a valid point. What i was trying to say was that i'd rather my wife know how to shoot straight as opposed to using spray-and-pray tactics.

guess i should have worded that better...

TMM
 
Just remember that every squeeze (not "pull") of the trigger sends a bullet somewhere. Not long after a nearby PD transitioned to hi-cap pistols, two officers responded to a "hostile dog" call. They ended up firing 20 or more rounds. Many of the rounds didn't go into the dogs, but punched holes in the neighbor's fence and garage.

In a home invasion, firing off a lot of rounds that don't hit the intruders might not be so good an idea.

Parker
 
After reading the Armed citizen collum in the American Rifleman for over 40 years, I've come to the conclusion that for the vast majority of home invasions, very few rounds are fired. It seems that most of the time, when confronted by an armed homeowner, the criminal runs off. When shots are fired, the criminal almost always run outside trying to get away before dropping. No matter what he's shot with.

It's very rare more than a few shots are fired.
 
It is also very rare that countrys are invaded, airplanes crash into buildings, and nuclear weapons are employed, but these things can and do happen, and there are contingency plans for these, and other highly unlikely scenarios.
I believe the phrase is: "failure of imagination."
I guess what I am trying to say is imagine the worst, prepare for it, and any situation that may arise should be covered. Just keep any plans simple and flexible. That is the key.
 
After reading the Armed citizen collum in the American Rifleman for over 40 years, I've come to the conclusion that for the vast majority of home invasions, very few rounds are fired.
Click to expand...

I think thats why I always thought 5 would be enough too, I guess this is just an exception to the rule.

Anyhow, tragic story. Too bad she couldnt have returned fire before they killed her husband and daughter, must be really hard to figure out whats going on when people are dressed up as Marshals or Police.

Things are getting crazy down there in the SW.

Dom
 
i'd rather my wife know how to shoot straight
Click to expand...
A big +1 on that TMM

If we're talking about each other, i.e. fellow gunnies who often go shooting, may have a modicum of training, and know very well how to use our weapons, there shouldn't be any argument. Mindset and skillset come before the tool. We're always hesitant to spend good gun money on training, but I can't stop recommending it. I've never taken a training class and regretted spending the money on it, ever.

As far as the wives go, you just have to do your best. If they will go shooting with you, consider yourself blessed. And teach them how to operate a few guns. They might not retain it all, so don't go overboard. The one pistol you know she should be going to in this situation needs to be the one she always shoots, every time she shoots, and make her load each magazine and learn that dang gun front to back; safeties, slide lock, mag release, everything.

Other than that, just make sure she knows where to find that gun. I will, out of the blue, find my wife doing her daily stuff and I'll stop her and say, "Show me you can arm yourself in less than twenty seconds". The first few times I did this, she would laugh about it on the way to the nightstand to grab a handgun. She thought it was silly. Nowadays, when I drop that line, she shows more seriousness. She might start by rolling her eyes in the, "Not again" way, but then she finds/grabs the baby, and makes a beeline for the bedroom, finds her keys and makes me a little more proud each time.
 
Nice! With my wife, I won't even waste the breath trying. She'll have nothing to do with guns or shooting.
 
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The wife has a snub nose because that's what she's comfortable shooting. She knows how to use and load the gun. She has two speed loaders.

IMO, you should know how to use the guns in your house.
 
husband and daughter got shot by the Minutemen (?)

It's my understanding they are not Minutemen, but a fringe group with felony criminal records.
They targeted a known drug-house for profit.
They are not Patriots.
 
Enough of this 5-shot elitism and the idea that if you can't put them all on a plate at 50 yards, you have no business having a weapon.

What if you or your wife or injured or otherwise unable to hold your weapon steady? What if your first shot kills your night vision and the only thing you can see is the muzzle flash of the BG? There's plenty of scenarios where a few extra, inaccurate shots could mean the difference between life and death.

Overwhelming, inaccurate firepower has won many battles, and driven away many foes. I want to win, not just 'put up a good fight'.

After all, "It's better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it."
 
Somebody has to say it...

Simple rhetoric here: Carry what you shoot well. A revolver is a fine choice IF you are proficient with it, and the fact is more people (especially recoil-hating women) are naturally better with semi-autos. They're lighter, often have better ergonomics (Springfield XD and 1911s), and carry greater capacities that less experienced pistoleers need to compensate of lack of accuracy. I carry a revolver because I KNOW, having obtained such a level of handgun experience, accuracy was no longer my greatest concern...stoppages were. So, again, a revolver is great IF the shooter knows what they're doing with it. But don't be so obtuse as to expect newer, smaller shooter to be able to master it right away. Think of semi-autos as training wheels. :D Even if they never get off 'em, at least they're moving (shooting).
 
I just have multiple weapons handy. If I run out with one, hopefully I'm not too full of holes to grab another.

Worked for Lance Thomas.
 
Use what works best for you has been said many a times and it's just as true now as it was then. Tragic story, wish it had a better ending.
 
I wonder if she was able to get to an auto but had to take the time to figure it out under stress.... Flick this safety, rack this slide, is it loaded, etc.

The attack happened at 1 am, she was obviously in a state of shock (and who wouldn't be).... the news report counts 9 shots fired (not much more than 6 or 8 depending on what revolver you have).

As much as people want to talk about capacity, etc.... yes 6 shots is limited (even 8). But being able to operate your weapon when half awake, in shock, after being shot is a virtue of the revolver.

But I think this incident shows the 20/20 crowd why having a gun for protection can save your life.

With that said, nothing against autos.... but I find myself being more attracted to revolvers and DAO guns. Keep it simple.

I'm still debating trading my Benelli M1 S90. Why? It would probably be hard to manipulate under stress, especially if I was half awake. Lots of small buttons, and being left-handed I can't access the crossbolt safety very well. It sits in the safe.

I'm pretty sure my next pistol (which may be a long ways off) will be a revolver, a Sig DAK, or an HK LEM, if not another Glock.

As far as rifles, the lever-action is getting more and more attractive. Keep it in condition 3, and rack the lever and its good to go. I don't know if I could remember to manipulate the safety on an AR in a stressful situation that came out of nowhere. Not because I'm not trained on them but really.... I'm a deep sleeper and I'm lucky to figure out which way is up and which way is down at 1 in the morning.
 
DHJenkins: Overwhelming, inaccurate firepower has won many battles, and driven away many foes.

Especially true in places like Vietnam, but at what cost to the surrounding countryside? If you're in my neighborhood, I'm going to frown on overwhelming, inaccurate fire. In fact, I may start shooting back. Accurately.

Parker
 
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