Test of my mental state: daughter attacked

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doc540

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Here's the story:

I am NOT "bragging", just sharing for the benefit of others here. I am not LEO and have a Texas CHL.

Last Feb., one month after my stepdaughter turned 18 years old, I got a call on my cellphone as my wife and I were driving home from dinner.

It was my daughter, hysterical, crying, and talking unintelligibly from her cell phone.

Without thinking I switched into slow-talk, low voice, calm tone and began asking her direct, simple, "yes/no" questions. (I was also factoring in keeping my wife calm.)

Jist of story, someone had or was at the time assaulting her.

She managed to tell me her location which was about a mile and a half away in a suburban, strip center parking lot in front of Starbucks.

I told her to lock herself in her car, call 911, and that I was on the way.

I stayed calm, put on my flashers, purposely and intentionally weaved my way through traffic and red lights without driving like a reckless maniac, and pulled into the parking lot within a couple of minutes.

I failed to call 911 myself, and to this day don't really understand why. I have friends who work patrol in our end of town. Looking back now, I should have called.

Mentally, I was prepared to drive up, stop far enough away to survey the scene, protect my wife, and rescue my daughter. I kept reminding myself that a shoot was an absolute last resort, to stay calm, smart, and observant.

I saw her outside her car crying hysterically amidst two or three of her regular "Starbucks" friends whom I immediately recognized. No perp around, no other cars with doors open, no one looked wild or highly emotional except her.

As soon as I saw it was clear (judgment call), I signaled for my wife, we got my daughter calm enough to tell us what had just happened.

Road rage incident.

(I immediately reminded myself there are two sides to every story, and my little, red-headed spitfire very well could have incited it.) Sure enough, she had flipped off a wreckless driver who had followed her to Starbucks, pulled her from her car, choked her, screamed in her face, and slapped her.

An adult female was the perp, and had left the scene.

Cops drove up as she finished her story as did EMS. Seems as though an elderly lady, good samaritan, had witnessed the assault and called 911 with a description and license number.

Condensed version: because she was 18 only she could file charges. She was afraid of ethnic retaliation and refused to file. I had NO control over that decision, and had to deal with my own rage and frustration over it.

Apart from many other angles to this story, I was satisfied with my mental state from the time she called until I knew she was safe and relatively unhurt.
I can only hope and believe that if I had arrived on the scene with the perp still present I could have used restraint and stopped the attack without a shoot occurring.

My greatest anger came from my daughter violating TWO cardinal rules I'd shared with her repeatedly:
1. do NOT incite a stranger while driving
2. do NOT get out of your car if you sense danger (She HAD to have known the people (grown woman and teen daughter) had followed her and STILL got out of the car probably to shoot off her smart little mouth. Of course, when the woman came at her she tried to get back into the car, but the woman dragged her out by her heels while she kicked and screamed.

No charges filed, hard lesson learned, and she was able to see how Dad reacted without becoming a raging madman with a gun.

I think my training in conflict management and as a mediator actually kicked in without me really thinking about it. Of course, I had my extra magazine at the ready, too, but was NOT eager to use it.
 
1. do NOT incite a stranger while driving
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There's a movie called Falling Down, that while fictional, illustrates why this is a bad idea and how it can backfire.

You never know about the state of mind of the person you're "flipping off". Could be he/she just got fired, is in the middle of a messy divorce, just took a mind altering drug, etc. is leaving the scene of a crime, etc. We all say we don't want to be victims; the first step is REALLY easy--don't make yourself a target...
 
All I can add is that I would have preferred to see charges filed.

The next person this person attacks will probably agree with me.


-- John
 
I'm glad the daughter is (relatively) OK.

OP is well aware of her culpability in inititiating the incident and that there was no justification for violence on the part of the choker/slapper.

A major error has been made in not filing charges, of course. But that seems to be how that will end up.

I'm leaning toward the opinion that it was fortunate that OP didn't get to the scene in time to encounter the perp. He seems in his reported mental state to have been ready to draw a gun (and have his "extra magazine at the ready").

Both the gun and the "extra magazine" would probably been unnecessary since it was an unarmed woman who was doing the assault. Was it known from the "yes/no questions" by OP of daughter that the assailant was a woman with no weapon?

Probably. At least it should have been known.

Everything turned out reasonably well. I'd say that going through red lights is OK if it's an emergency, though local LE might have a different opinion. There's a bit of risk there, though.
 
Both the gun and the "extra magazine" would probably been unnecessary since it was an unarmed woman who was doing the assault.
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While it may be dependent on statutes in the particular jurisdiction, whether an attacker is armed or not is irrelevant to me.

If I could deal with it without a weapon, I very well may. But I'd feel zero obligation to do so.


-- John
 
If I could deal with it without a weapon, I very well may. But I'd feel zero obligation to do so.
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If you could deal with the situation without a weapon, then that is the best way to do it. Doing it the best way is, well, it's the best way.

Drawing a gun on an unarmed woman seems kind of, um, overdoing it. Embarassing, too.

Fortunately, she had left the scene so the opportunity didn't come up for OP.
 
no charges filed? ethnic retaliation? if she files charges, ther can be no retaliation because the "woman" (and i use that term lightly) would be in jail for assault and battery.
 
OK. So we all agree, and understand, your frustration over the lack of charges being filed. All that aside, I'm gonna guess your
little, red-headed spitfire
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learned a valuable lesson as this could have turned out much, much worse. Your wise council will probably makes more sense to her now!

Hope she is well.

One more thing, I've been faced with similar situations involving my son, I was not as rational and clear thinking as you. Thanks for the post as it makes me think.
 
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if she files charges, ther can be no retaliation because the "woman" (and i use that term lightly) would be in jail for assault and battery.
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Although I would favor filing charges, I beg to differ about the woman's ability to retaliate. She is likely to have several large, male friends and relatives that might be happy to take care of matters for her.
 
FCFC wrote:

If you could deal with the situation without a weapon, then that is the best way to do it. Doing it the best way is, well, it's the best way.

Drawing a gun on an unarmed woman seems kind of, um, overdoing it. Embarassing, too.
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Touche'

With the particulars of this case, your point carries.

-- John
 
if she files charges, ther can be no retaliation because the "woman" (and i use that term lightly) would be in jail for assault and battery.
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For about an hour or so. Battery isn't a big deal unless she has a long list of former offenses. Even then, she can make a low bail.

old irish proverb - Many a mans mouth has broke his nose
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I love this quote!

Still, not filing charges tells them that rough kids deserve the right to rule the block.
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Maybe daughter was the aggressor.
I have a pretty bad temper, and I have since I was a toddler. But, life has taught me to keep my mouth shut mainly because the other guy can be "stringbean McGee" or a local MA Sensei, Ken Shamrock, Jerry Miculek, etc.
Most of the extra curves in my nose,cartilage displacement, broken wrists and bones, and chipped teeth I have happened when I was a teen or in my early 20's.
Sometimes, you just need your butt kicked to find out you aren't superman or superwoman.

Kudos to Doc for being fair minded about it and allowing mediation training to take over. Given your personal history, I'm surprised you didn't go into a very different mode of thought.
No charges filed, hard lesson learned, and she was able to see how Dad reacted without becoming a raging madman with a gun.
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Sounds like your daughter got an expensive series of lessons on the cheap.
 
There was no way to know at the time whether or not both parties were armed, either the perp or the younger woman who was still near the car, but participating by shouting threats, obscenities, and throwing a water bottle.

I had no intention of drawing my gun, but knew no details of the scene when I was in route. For all I knew, it could've been an armed group of thugs assaulting her. All I did was to begin OODA'ing from the time of the call.

Remember, all I got from her phone call was her location and something very bad either had happened or was happening at the moment.

Since my daughter was still in high school, she feared relatives or friends of the perp would retaliate either on or off campus. I've since learned the perp lived in a nearby town, 20 miles away. My daughter had no way of knowing that at the time. She refused to file charges both at the time and since then.

She was regularly threatened and intimidated by the school hall and mall gangstas (that's just how it is these days), so this very real and traumatic episode just amplified that fear.

When she did return to school Monday morning, she dressed to hide the bruise marks around her neck, but did discuss the episode with her principal and counselor just in case.

Nothing else ever came of the episode apart from the lessons we all learned.
 
There was no way to know at the time whether or not both parties were armed, either the perp or the younger woman who was still near the car, but participating by shouting threats, obscenities, and throwing a water bottle.
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There was a way to tell what the daughter was seeing. Don't forget that, based on the somewhat patting-on-the back description in OP:

Without thinking I switched into slow-talk, low voice, calm tone and began asking her direct, simple, "yes/no" questions. (I was also factoring in keeping my wife calm.)

Jist of story, someone had or was at the time assaulting her.
Click to expand...
This "slow-talk, low voice, calm" inquiry should have included some yes/no questions about the assailant(s), I would think. Else, it wasn't done very effectively.

I had no intention of drawing my gun, but knew no details of the scene when I was in route. For all I knew, it could've been an armed group of thugs assaulting her. All I did was to begin OODA'ing from the time of the call
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Seems that your inquiry really should have or could have gleaned some highly important bits of information: description of the assailant, armed or no, number of assailants., etc. In fact, it is almost inconceivable that OP would have not at least asked about these issues. The OP had already decided to respond to the incident. It would be highly preferable for him to know as much as possible about what he was driving into. By OP's own account he was an unknown distance from the assault. It turned out to be "a couple of minutes" (Two? Three? Four?) to get to the scene. And that distance/time was on the basis of suspending general traffic laws for a self-declared emergency. That being the case, it would have been imperative to dial 911 and report whatever was known to the police. When seconds count....

I hope the daughter recovered completely from the bruises and the attack. I also hope that "the lessons we all learned" include some about decisiveness/calm judgment in reporting an attack to the police and how important it is to quickly elicit important information when asking "slow-talk, low voice, calm" questioning. The tapes of 911 dispatcher calls that are often posted here and elsewhere usually are a good example of how this is done properly. Cases such as the one described in OP can cause people to panic. And panic doesn't help much in resolving such situtations.

This is a good case for educating ourselves and thinking through the details and actions that were and could have been taken. It's useful for us all, especially if we can do an unbiased post-incident analysis. Or, at least, if we can minimize the bias.
 
Seems that your inquiry really should have or could have gleaned some highly important bits of information: description of the assailant, armed or no, number of assailants., etc. In fact, it is almost inconceivable that OP would have not at least asked about these issues. By OP's own account he was an unknown distance from the assault. It turned out to be "a couple of minutes" (Two? Three? Four?) to get to the scene. And that distance/time was on the basis of suspending general traffic laws for a self-declared emergency. That being the case, it would have been imperative to dial 911 and report whatever was known to the police. When seconds count....
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I generally agree with you, except that information extraction is limited to the state of the most hysterical person in the conversation.
In a panic, a young woman calling her Father for help is not likely to be coherent since that is pretty much a desperation move.
If she could have thought clearly, she could have just dialed 911.
I think it's expecting quite a bit of him to expect he could have calmed his hysterical daughter while she was being assaulted when she called him out of sheer panic. A 911 operator could have had better luck, being a stranger.
I mean, were not talking about some grunt calling in a fire mission in the last week of AIT. It was a panic situation. Some people panic, and some don't.
I agree that dialing 911 while on the way would have been a good idea.
 
Very well written. I particularly liked the "no reckless driving," "yes and no questions," and the fact that you were willing to accept your daughter incited it. Heck, that she was willing to admit inciting it.

Of course, she still didn't deserve what happened, but it could have actually saved her a lot more trouble in the long run.

Charges really ought to have been filed, though, as you've probably realized; I'm also curious about ethnic retaliation; do you mean:

a) Retaliation
b) Bias in court
c) something else?
 
I agree that a report should've been filed.
While your red-headded daughter did start it, the finger will get you a agressive driving citation here in Georgia, the woman escallated it to a multi person assault and battery after unlawfully pursuing your daughter. Even if the charges didn't stick, she needs to know she can't "get away" with retalliation.
Just my $0.02
 
Charges really ought to have been filed, though, as you've probably realized; I'm also curious about ethnic retaliation; do you mean:

a) Retaliation
b) Bias in court
c) something else?
Click to expand...

Probably something along the lines of the perp's compatriots abusing the daughter at some later stage, such as at school. If the compatriots prodiminately fall within a particular ethnic group (as many real or "wannabe" gangs do), I can see "ethnic retaliation" as being a somewhat generalized way of saying the daughter (probably correctly) believes she could be injured, especially if she is of a different ethnic origin.

Basically, scumbags tend to stick together and when cross-ethnic issues are involved, there is another "justification" for their actions.
 
Thanks for the intelligent, thoughtful discussion.

To clarify a couple of points:

1. My daughter was, indeed, hysterical and all I could determine was her location and something very bad had or was happening to her.

I was, however, able to make a judgment call that she was not being raped, stabbed, or shot at the moment of the call. All those very bad things could have been an unfolding possibility, but she was just crying and talking jibberish.

2. Our distance from the scene was about 1.5 miles. Calculating for the safe slow-downs through the four intersections after my U-turn, I'd say we arrived within 2 minutes. It was a divided, four lane boulevard with light traffic so I probably cruised around 70-75mph when clear of traffic. Normal traffic usually flows at 50-55mph. I'm a good driver and have competed in auto-crosses from time to time, so I'm confident in my skills and knew the car's limits.

3. Yes, I should have called 911 immediately and said as much in my original post. Unknown to me at the time, someone had already called 911, and even though they had several minutes lead time on me, I arrived several minutes before the police and EMS got there.
I'm good with my response and the time it took, but should've called 911 immediately, especially since the Watch Commander is a friend of mine. (I did call and discuss the situation with him the next day.)


4.. Regarding the "ethnic retaliation", this accurately summed it up:

"Probably something along the lines of the perp's compatriots abusing the daughter at some later stage, such as at school. If the compatriots prodiminately fall within a particular ethnic group (as many real or "wannabe" gangs do), I can see "ethnic retaliation" as being a somewhat generalized way of saying the daughter (probably correctly) believes she could be injured, especially if she is of a different ethnic origin.

Basically, scumbags tend to stick together and when cross-ethnic issues are involved, there is another "justification" for their actions."

4. A "report" was filed, but only my 18 year old daughter could actually file charges, and I simply had no way to MAKE her do that.

And, you know, I could've gotten the perp's name and address from my friends on the local force, but nothing good could have come from that when I weighed the risks and benefits.

By even discussing it here, I'm dealing with my issues about the whole episode, and that's a good thing in itself.
 
Doc -

Kudos for remaining calm and rational. That in itself can go a long way towards defusing a tense situation. And, as you mentioned, your stepdaughter probably learned a little something about the value of NOT freaking out. Hopefully it will serve her well in the future.
 
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