DAVIDSDIVAD
member
I'm glad she's safe, doc.
Good on you for being there.
Good on you for being there.
Test of my mental state: daughter attacked
- Thread starter doc540
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American_Pit_Bull
Member
I was wondering the same thing... Were you saying that she was afraid to file charges because the other woman was Mexican/Italian/etc...
doc540
Member
4.. Regarding the "ethnic retaliation", this accurately summed it up:
"Probably something along the lines of the perp's compatriots abusing the daughter at some later stage, such as at school. If the compatriots prodiminately fall within a particular ethnic group (as many real or "wannabe" gangs do), I can see "ethnic retaliation" as being a somewhat generalized way of saying the daughter (probably correctly) believes she could be injured, especially if she is of a different ethnic origin.
Basically, scumbags tend to stick together and when cross-ethnic issues are involved, there is another "justification" for their actions."
"Probably something along the lines of the perp's compatriots abusing the daughter at some later stage, such as at school. If the compatriots prodiminately fall within a particular ethnic group (as many real or "wannabe" gangs do), I can see "ethnic retaliation" as being a somewhat generalized way of saying the daughter (probably correctly) believes she could be injured, especially if she is of a different ethnic origin.
Basically, scumbags tend to stick together and when cross-ethnic issues are involved, there is another "justification" for their actions."
gregormeister
Member
(Condensed version: because she was 18 only she could file charges. She was afraid of ethnic retaliation and refused to file.)
I'm glad to hear your daughter is O.K...and yeah she may have started it but right is right and wrong is wrong.I'm tired of the U.S. law falling to its knees and every law abiding person getting nervous over ethnic and racial situations...I think that cards been played a little too much...Like I said maybe its just me but right is right and wrong is wrong!!!
I'm glad to hear your daughter is O.K...and yeah she may have started it but right is right and wrong is wrong.I'm tired of the U.S. law falling to its knees and every law abiding person getting nervous over ethnic and racial situations...I think that cards been played a little too much...Like I said maybe its just me but right is right and wrong is wrong!!!
BobCat
Member
Maybe she did not file charges because she realized she preciptiated the assault.
Not justifying the assault - clearly the woman was wrong to physically assault your daughter in response to an obscene gesture - just trying to see it through daughter's eyes. Seems she realized none of it would have happened had she kept her temper, and both hands on the wheel.
Not trying to minimize the "ethnic retailation" angle either - conflict between two parties of differing ethnicities brings all sorts of extraneous baggage into the situation, can not be ignored.
I suppose this is just my long-winded way of saying that your daughter may have learned how easy it is to set off people with short fuses, saw her role in the escalation, decided to let it drop.
Not justifying the assault - clearly the woman was wrong to physically assault your daughter in response to an obscene gesture - just trying to see it through daughter's eyes. Seems she realized none of it would have happened had she kept her temper, and both hands on the wheel.
Not trying to minimize the "ethnic retailation" angle either - conflict between two parties of differing ethnicities brings all sorts of extraneous baggage into the situation, can not be ignored.
I suppose this is just my long-winded way of saying that your daughter may have learned how easy it is to set off people with short fuses, saw her role in the escalation, decided to let it drop.
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doc540
Member
"I suppose this is just my long-winded way of saying that your daughter may have learned how easy it is to set off people with short fuses, saw her role in the escalation, decided to let it drop."
Yep, you're right on the mark with 2 out of 3.
She was genuinely terrified of having to file charges, give a statement, testify during a trial, and incurring the unknown but, to her, very real wrath of some really mean and bad people out there.
Remember, at the time she was told she had to file charges, she had no idea who the woman was or where she lived. She could've had a big family and friends of the very people who'd been threatening her at school. It wasn't until later I found out the perp lived in a nearby town.
Put yourselves in her shoes: small, female, and no self defense training while circulating on a daily basis with big, mean, aggressive people who regularly threatened her both on and off campus.
In her mind there is no way she could be protected against retaliation without travelling with a bodyguard or never leaving her room.
I know her well, and she was terrified at both the incident and the thought of possible retaliation.
Yep, you're right on the mark with 2 out of 3.
She was genuinely terrified of having to file charges, give a statement, testify during a trial, and incurring the unknown but, to her, very real wrath of some really mean and bad people out there.
Remember, at the time she was told she had to file charges, she had no idea who the woman was or where she lived. She could've had a big family and friends of the very people who'd been threatening her at school. It wasn't until later I found out the perp lived in a nearby town.
Put yourselves in her shoes: small, female, and no self defense training while circulating on a daily basis with big, mean, aggressive people who regularly threatened her both on and off campus.
In her mind there is no way she could be protected against retaliation without travelling with a bodyguard or never leaving her room.
I know her well, and she was terrified at both the incident and the thought of possible retaliation.
La Pistoletta
Member
I can see where she's coming from with that. In a regular life there's bound to be innumerable situations of vulnerability. Not everyone can just pack up and leave, or hunker down in a mansion with privately employed guards outside.
It's not easy sometimes. Schools can be a no man's land in ways that would never be tolerated in adult workplaces.
It's not easy sometimes. Schools can be a no man's land in ways that would never be tolerated in adult workplaces.
Virginia Tech might have not happened had those girls that had been stalked by the shooter FOLLOWED THROUGH with their complaint and charges... He would not have been eligible to legally purchase or own a gun and that would have precluded him from shooting up the place with the Glock 19 and Walther that he purchased at a gun store. He might have gotten them somewhere else or done something else, but I can tell you that it could not have unfolded the way that it did had they followed through with the charges.
The person that attacked your daughter is a nut a ticking time bomb that is going to go off and injure / maim / kill someone else. Hell she might have kids that she is torturing right now...
I heard you when you said you have no control over it. Makes me sick though.
On your response (checking out the scene, keeping a cool head, etc...) you did excellent!
Come again? People threaten her regularly?? There is a word "Drama Queen", you might want to ask your wife how she feels about it. Women usually have a pretty good read on women. Men are pretty clueless most of the time.
Vaya con Dios amigo.
The person that attacked your daughter is a nut a ticking time bomb that is going to go off and injure / maim / kill someone else. Hell she might have kids that she is torturing right now...
I heard you when you said you have no control over it. Makes me sick though.
On your response (checking out the scene, keeping a cool head, etc...) you did excellent!
Doc540 said:
Come again? People threaten her regularly?? There is a word "Drama Queen", you might want to ask your wife how she feels about it. Women usually have a pretty good read on women. Men are pretty clueless most of the time.
Vaya con Dios amigo.
rainbowbob
Member
FCFC:
I've noticed here and in at least one other recent thread that you seem to believe an "unarmed" person presents little or no threat. This in spite of the fact that I and many others have pointed out numerous documented cases proving the contrary. Perhaps it is arguable that an unarmed female does not pose as great a threat as an unarmed male - but I am not at all embarrassed to tell you I would not bet my life on it.
Unarmed physical assaults can - and often do - result in a lethal outcome. Do you dispute this fact? The only "unarmed" person is a double-amputee - and even then I'd be wary of what he might do with his feet.
doc540
Member
"Come again? People threaten her regularly??"
Yep, confirmed by friends who are teachers and administrators at the school.
And the threats aren't just directed at her. That's just life these days in a high school with a diverse registration of 2500 people.
You "disrespect" someone, accidentally step on their pristine, $100 sneakers, or just bump into them in the hall and they WILL threaten to kick your little, white, butt. Right there in front of everyone or later that evening in the mall parking lot. Don't even matter.
And don't get confused. This is no "black" thing. It's a pseudo-gangstah thing regardless of your race.
Yep, confirmed by friends who are teachers and administrators at the school.
And the threats aren't just directed at her. That's just life these days in a high school with a diverse registration of 2500 people.
You "disrespect" someone, accidentally step on their pristine, $100 sneakers, or just bump into them in the hall and they WILL threaten to kick your little, white, butt. Right there in front of everyone or later that evening in the mall parking lot. Don't even matter.
And don't get confused. This is no "black" thing. It's a pseudo-gangstah thing regardless of your race.
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rainbowbob
Member
doc540:
Thanks for sharing your story and giving those of us that are so inclined to contemplate yet another "real-life" scenario.
My daughter also had to endure the same kind of threats in high school over a decade ago. It was a pretty helpless and frustrating experience to know there was little I could do to protect her - this at the same school I went to 30 years earlier without ever witnessing the kind of crap that now seems to be a daily occurrence at most public schools.
My question for you concerns your wife's attitude/role in this incident and relate it to my own situation. How and what was she doing during the initial phone call? Does she share your ability to remain rational and calm? What about during the car ride to the scene? Did she take the phone from you, or call her daughter back while you were driving?
Without going into detail, I will tell you that my wife and I have experienced numerous panic situations involving our son and daughter. My response (e.g., on the phone) is to slow down, attempt to remain calm, speak clearly, ask relevant questions, attempt to formulate a plan, etc. Not because I have nerves of steel - but because it is the only way I am able to endure such an incident. My wife on the other hand tends to go straight for the panic button and become hysterical. Instant action is the only possible response for her. Taking sixty seconds to assess a situation is not only not an option for her - it drives her mad that I could be so "unemotional" as to be able to calmly (a relative term) think things through.
I can "convince" her that a measured response is a more effective response when we are not "in the moment". But the next time something comes up - it's off to the races again.
Thanks for sharing your story and giving those of us that are so inclined to contemplate yet another "real-life" scenario.
My daughter also had to endure the same kind of threats in high school over a decade ago. It was a pretty helpless and frustrating experience to know there was little I could do to protect her - this at the same school I went to 30 years earlier without ever witnessing the kind of crap that now seems to be a daily occurrence at most public schools.
My question for you concerns your wife's attitude/role in this incident and relate it to my own situation. How and what was she doing during the initial phone call? Does she share your ability to remain rational and calm? What about during the car ride to the scene? Did she take the phone from you, or call her daughter back while you were driving?
Without going into detail, I will tell you that my wife and I have experienced numerous panic situations involving our son and daughter. My response (e.g., on the phone) is to slow down, attempt to remain calm, speak clearly, ask relevant questions, attempt to formulate a plan, etc. Not because I have nerves of steel - but because it is the only way I am able to endure such an incident. My wife on the other hand tends to go straight for the panic button and become hysterical. Instant action is the only possible response for her. Taking sixty seconds to assess a situation is not only not an option for her - it drives her mad that I could be so "unemotional" as to be able to calmly (a relative term) think things through.
I can "convince" her that a measured response is a more effective response when we are not "in the moment". But the next time something comes up - it's off to the races again.
Titan6
member
Sound advice. Unfortunately they call them "accidents" for a reason. You can quite easily set off some people accidentally and not even realize it. Which is why rule #3 "Carry a gun" is a good idea.
DAVIDSDIVAD
member
Find the nearest huge mexican boy that grew up in west texas and tell your daughter to date him.
It worked for the young ladies I quasi-courted in high school.
doc540
Member
"My question for you concerns your wife's attitude/role in this incident and relate it to my own situation. How and what was she doing during the initial phone call? Does she share your ability to remain rational and calm? What about during the car ride to the scene? Did she take the phone from you, or call her daughter back while you were driving?"
My wife is a smart, tough, common-sense, pioneer woman. So, I married her.
If you recall in my first post, I tried to keep the conversation calm and simple partly to keep her calm. After hanging up, I told her, "I couldn't completely understand her, but she's having some sort of problem, but hasn't been in an accident. I think she's ok, but we need to get to Starbucks and check on her."
I was too intent on driving quickly and safely for her to distract me with questions or the cell phone. She realized I was on a mission, and quietly and courageously supported whatever decisions I was making, like a partner should.
Had it become necessary, I knew I could rely on her to do exactly what I told her or needed her to do so we'd all be safe.
She's the same one who wanted to keep shooting at the range a few weeks ago after the Model 36 had her thumb bleeding!
She's a tough, smart cookie and one in a million.
My wife is a smart, tough, common-sense, pioneer woman. So, I married her.
If you recall in my first post, I tried to keep the conversation calm and simple partly to keep her calm. After hanging up, I told her, "I couldn't completely understand her, but she's having some sort of problem, but hasn't been in an accident. I think she's ok, but we need to get to Starbucks and check on her."
I was too intent on driving quickly and safely for her to distract me with questions or the cell phone. She realized I was on a mission, and quietly and courageously supported whatever decisions I was making, like a partner should.
Had it become necessary, I knew I could rely on her to do exactly what I told her or needed her to do so we'd all be safe.
She's the same one who wanted to keep shooting at the range a few weeks ago after the Model 36 had her thumb bleeding!
She's a tough, smart cookie and one in a million.
rainbowbob
Member
God Bless her! You claim she is one in a million and you may be right - I know for a fact she is one in two that I can think of.
I was too young and stupid (33 years ago) to pick a mate based on such criteria - or any criteria other than we were crazy in lust for each other and she was pregnant (is that TMI?).
Somehow we've managed to stick together anyway, and I love her for many reasons - but calm deliberate support of my decisions in a crisis ain't one of 'em!
KiltedClaymore
Member
well now, that cant happen if you beat them silly after they take the first swing
. my view is learn to fight, and have the ability to be just as mean as they are.
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Thernlund
Member
Having just skimmed this thread, I see alot of folks saying the she started it.
I have to take another road on that. She started what, exactly? Although I wouldn't use such hand gestures (just not my style), I don't think giving a reckless driver the finger is out of bounds. And I don't think that qualifies as "starting it".
For example, if I am cut off in a severely dangerous way, I will lay on the horn and hold that thing down for a good 15 seconds. I mayt also mouth certain words to the jackass if he is trying to get me killed.
So if some idiot causes me to swerve to miss him, and I lay on my horn, throw up a hand and mouth the words, "WHAT THE F***?!", my assailant is less wrong in assaulting me? My honking incited him/her? Yeah. Whatever. Blame the victim.
More on topic and directed to the OP... I think you did alright. I'd have done similar I expect. I'm not terribly excitable so I think I'd have likely had the same "expediently calm" attitude.
-T.
I have to take another road on that. She started what, exactly? Although I wouldn't use such hand gestures (just not my style), I don't think giving a reckless driver the finger is out of bounds. And I don't think that qualifies as "starting it".
For example, if I am cut off in a severely dangerous way, I will lay on the horn and hold that thing down for a good 15 seconds. I mayt also mouth certain words to the jackass if he is trying to get me killed.
So if some idiot causes me to swerve to miss him, and I lay on my horn, throw up a hand and mouth the words, "WHAT THE F***?!", my assailant is less wrong in assaulting me? My honking incited him/her? Yeah. Whatever. Blame the victim.
More on topic and directed to the OP... I think you did alright. I'd have done similar I expect. I'm not terribly excitable so I think I'd have likely had the same "expediently calm" attitude.
-T.
Well, that definitely illustrates another dimension of the OP's handling of the incident: initiative to take total charge and failure to use a perfectly good resource.
OP developed plan that was based on him, him and him. Him to get the information about daughter's state and circumstances. Him to become a temporary emergency vehicle (which he operated) supreceding normal traffic flows and red lights (4?). Him to handle situation without calling in 911 (previously discussed). And finally, him to arrive at destination, spinning into the parking lot, gun ready (along with extra mag) to handle the situation.
Entrusting the phone to the wife to call (if not 911) the daughter to establish a real time link to get instantaneous information about her condition and circumstances relative to the threat. This information flow would have been quite useful for several purposes, for example, allowing the temporary emergency vehicle to avoid going through too many red lights--if it could be communicated that the threat had already left the scene. Let's face it, if the OP had been involved in an accident going through a red light after the assailant was no longer causing a threat, it would have been quite tragic.
OP took complete charge, eschewing all available resources: 911, wife, daughter's information (as best as it might have been gotten), daughter's friends.
This taking exclusive charge decision diminished greatly the efficacy of the overall effort and added an element of danger to him, wife and others in traffic. Poor judgment can result in outputs that are exactly the opposite of what we desire.
I'm glad the daughter did not end up seriously injured.
doc540
Member
"Well, that definitely illustrates another dimension of the OP's handling of the incident: initiative to take total charge and failure to use a perfectly good resource.
OP developed plan that was based on him, him and him. Him to get the information about daughter's state and circumstances. Him to become a temporary emergency vehicle (which he operated) supreceding normal traffic flows and red lights (4?). Him to handle situation without calling in 911 (previously discussed). And finally, him to arrive at destination, spinning into the parking lot, gun ready (along with extra mag) to handle the situation.
Entrusting the phone to the wife to call (if not 911) the daughter to establish a real time link to get instantaneous information about her condition and circumstances relative to the threat. This information flow would have been quite useful for several purposes, for example, allowing the temporary emergency vehicle to avoid going through too many red lights--if it could be communicated that the threat had already left the scene. Let's face it, if the OP had been involved in an accident going through a red light after the assailant was no longer causing a threat, it would have been quite tragic.
OP took complete charge, eschewing all available resources: 911, wife, daughter's information (as best as it might have been gotten), daughter's friends.
This taking exclusive charge decision diminished greatly the efficacy of the overall effort and added an element of danger to him, wife and others in traffic. Poor judgment can result in outputs that are exactly the opposite of what we desire.
I'm glad the daughter did not end up seriously injured."
Wait....am I getting punked here? You're just trying to get some kind of rise out of me, right?
OP developed plan that was based on him, him and him. Him to get the information about daughter's state and circumstances. Him to become a temporary emergency vehicle (which he operated) supreceding normal traffic flows and red lights (4?). Him to handle situation without calling in 911 (previously discussed). And finally, him to arrive at destination, spinning into the parking lot, gun ready (along with extra mag) to handle the situation.
Entrusting the phone to the wife to call (if not 911) the daughter to establish a real time link to get instantaneous information about her condition and circumstances relative to the threat. This information flow would have been quite useful for several purposes, for example, allowing the temporary emergency vehicle to avoid going through too many red lights--if it could be communicated that the threat had already left the scene. Let's face it, if the OP had been involved in an accident going through a red light after the assailant was no longer causing a threat, it would have been quite tragic.
OP took complete charge, eschewing all available resources: 911, wife, daughter's information (as best as it might have been gotten), daughter's friends.
This taking exclusive charge decision diminished greatly the efficacy of the overall effort and added an element of danger to him, wife and others in traffic. Poor judgment can result in outputs that are exactly the opposite of what we desire.
I'm glad the daughter did not end up seriously injured."
Wait....am I getting punked here? You're just trying to get some kind of rise out of me, right?
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doc540 said:
I am sorry to hear this... Very sorry. There are a lot of things you could do, but most likely nothing you can / would do for one reason or another.
Referring to hear race gives you ground for lawsuit against the school... If they are not taking this seriously it is discrimination, if it was the other way, certainly the school would act but *** can schools do in reality?
Welcome to hell everyone.
If you don't mind ending up in confrontations with angry drivers then I suppose it's not "out of bounds". If your goal is to avoid confrontation then perhaps it's not a good idea.
As I see it, by the time someone's trying to determine who started it, everyone's already lost.
All in all, this could've turned out a lot worse. The daughter wasn't seriously injured, and doesn't have to worry about retaliation. Hopefully she has also learned a couple important lessons:
1. Don't flip off and/or curse people when she's out on the road. Anybody who watches the news or reads the paper these days, knows that "road rage" incidents are a common occurrence, and they often are precipitated by very minor things such as a middle finger.
2. When an angry "road rager" gets out of their vehicle and starts heading toward her vehicle, she needs to make sure her doors are locked, windows are up, and don't get out of the car. Dial 911 if the person starts banging on her car or begins jerking on the door handles in an effort to get in.
Dad learned a lesson, because he should now know to call 911 as soon as he ascertains his daughter's location, if a similar situation ever arises again.
1. Don't flip off and/or curse people when she's out on the road. Anybody who watches the news or reads the paper these days, knows that "road rage" incidents are a common occurrence, and they often are precipitated by very minor things such as a middle finger.
2. When an angry "road rager" gets out of their vehicle and starts heading toward her vehicle, she needs to make sure her doors are locked, windows are up, and don't get out of the car. Dial 911 if the person starts banging on her car or begins jerking on the door handles in an effort to get in.
Dad learned a lesson, because he should now know to call 911 as soon as he ascertains his daughter's location, if a similar situation ever arises again.
doc540
Member
"Dad learned a lesson, because he should now know to call 911 as soon as he ascertains his daughter's location, if a similar situation ever arises again."
Absolutely, correct. I did, indeed, learn a lesson about that.
Of course, when seconds were counting I did, after all, arrive at the scene several minutes before the cops. And they were called before I was.
re: "Referring to her race gives you ground for lawsuit against the school..."
Just to be clear, my friends and contacts at the school were very sympathetic and concerned, but at no time did they inject race into the discussion. They just listened to her off-campus story, and helped keep an eye on her as best they could.
I was just making a comment that bullies of all colors are pretty mean and aggressive these days both on and off campus.
It's a tough world out there for kids, especially 100 pound little girls.
Absolutely, correct. I did, indeed, learn a lesson about that.
Of course, when seconds were counting I did, after all, arrive at the scene several minutes before the cops. And they were called before I was.
re: "Referring to her race gives you ground for lawsuit against the school..."
Just to be clear, my friends and contacts at the school were very sympathetic and concerned, but at no time did they inject race into the discussion. They just listened to her off-campus story, and helped keep an eye on her as best they could.
I was just making a comment that bullies of all colors are pretty mean and aggressive these days both on and off campus.
It's a tough world out there for kids, especially 100 pound little girls.
Guns and more
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