An Interesting Experience

[doseyclwn]

Richmond, VA

So I'm driving to a restaurant late tonight when I run into a sobriety checkpoint. The reason this was interesting is that it was the first time I had been pulled over since I have started carrying my Norinco 9mm. As soon as I saw that's what it was, I unloaded the pistol, put it up on the dash and put the magazine in my shirt pocket. Also, I am always a little wary around LEO's because I choose to look like this.

We pull up to the checkpoint. I tell my passenger to put his hands on the window. I do as well, saying "I don't want to alarm you, officer, but I have a firearm with me". In any case, they yelled "We got a firearm", and told me to drive up with one hand on the wheel. The cop I pulled up to didn't know I had a firearm and wanted me to get my registration. I said "Wouldn't you rather remove the firearm first, sir?". He took it and told me to pull over to the side. I did so. He asked my friend if he had any weapons on him, which he did not. He then wanted me to get out of the car, and he wanted to search it. I told him it was fine. He searched it, then said I could get back in the car, that they were gonna check the gun and me out. At this, two of my friends walked up, so we talked until the cop came back. He gave me the gun back and asked why I carried a gun, was I scared? I said that basically, I was a firm believer in the 2nd amendment, and I was excercising my right to do so. I mentioned the VCDL. He claimed not to know who they were, but I noticed when I mentioned that, the questions stopped. He thanked me for my cooperation and said I could go.

 

[CZ-75]

Why shouldn't you be scared? They have a good chunk of the local police 3rd shift tied up in a fishing expedition, rather than finding real crims.

I know you had nothing to hide, but why the consent to search?

It's bad enough they are fishing for drunks and traffic violations.

Next time they may frisk you and ask for a strip search.

 

[doseyclwn]

I know you had nothing to hide, but why the consent to search?

Usually, I do not. I did this time for several reasons.

1)I knew they would find nothing.

2)It was 11:30pm, I was tired and hungry.

3)I had a friend with me, and didn't want to drag him into it.

It is the first search in awhile that I have consented to. The funny thing, too, was that it was a pitiful search. I could have hidden anything in there.

 

[CZ-75]

I didn't mean to criticize and I figured you probably didn't want to screw around stonewalling a questionable probable cause for a search, rather than get a bite to eat.

Still, your 4th amendment rights ought to be as dear as your 2nd rights.

What if they found something else you forgot about? Like a mag for an "evil black rifle"? You'd be there for an hour or two while they tore apart your car trying to find it and tried to pin everything on you from the Lindbergh kidnapping to NAFTA.

 

[Lord Grey Boots]

Uh, I think putting the gun up on the dash wasn't a great idea.

Leave it concealed, tell the officer you have it ONLY if legally required to do so, and then do what the officer says w.r.t. dealing with the gun.

Never give permission to search. But as long as you understand you could have refused, then your choice was valid.

 

[doseyclwn]

Uh, I think putting the gun up on the dash wasn't a great idea.

Leave it concealed, tell the officer you have it ONLY if legally required to do so, and then do what the officer says w.r.t. dealing with the gun.

The problem with that is I dont' have my permit here, and my only option is to open carry. Rather than risk getting messed with (as I often do looking like I choose to), I put it on the dash so it was in no way concealed.

Yes, my 4th amendment rights are as dear to me as my second amendment rights. Like I said, chose to agree to the search to save time. And the worst the cop would have found would have been a teletubbies tape.

 

[CZ-75]

Get your CCW, then.

I was wondering why they were hassling you in a CCW state. Surely they couldn't be such pansies that they'd never encountered a CCW holder.

Being legal and being right aren't necessarily the same and showing that you abide what is a stupid infringement will get you a "bye" regarding appearence.

 

[Kahr carrier]

 

[doseyclwn]

Get your CCW, then.

I was wondering why they were hassling you in a CCW state. Surely they couldn't be such pansies that they'd never encountered a CCW holder.

Well, it's Richmond city, and you'd think from the way they acted they never had.

Why I don't have my ccw is another matter altogether. Legally, VA has 45 days from the date of application to grant you a permit or deny it. Seeing as how VA is a "shall issue" state, and there is nothing on my record to prevent me from getting one, I WILL get one. The bad part is that it's now been 52 days and no permit, no word. I have written a letter to the Chief Justice of the State Supreme Court (which is what the VCDL reccomended I do), and there's really nothing else I can do at this point. The county I live in is famous for doing this.

 

[KP95DAO]

"He gave me the gun back and asked why I carried a gun, was I scared?"

About that time I would have asked him to have his supervisor to come to the scene. Then I would have asked his supervisor to explain the pertinence of the officer's question. Yes, it could have been such fun.

 

[Don Gwinn]

You might have mentioned that you didn't get to stand in a cluster of 20 cops all night like he does.

 

[Russ]

They want you to get a crew cut before they will issue it. Use lots of butch wax so the front sticks up like Bart Simpson's hair! At least you still have hair. Enjoy it while you got it and hope none of your ancestors passes the bald curse on to you like they did to me. I was 35 before mine started falling out. I thought I was safe but within 10 years, it's pretty sparse up there.

I hope your letter does some good. I think alot of letters to courts go directly into a into a the black hole they all have in the back office. Do you think the sniper shooting BS had a chilling effect on CCW's there or have they always been jerks?

 

[doseyclwn]

I hope your letter does some good. I think alot of letters to courts go directly into a into a the black hole they all have in the back office. Do you think the sniper shooting BS had a chilling effect on CCW's there or have they always been jerks?

Depends on where you live. Where I live, in Henrico County, VA, it's one Judge, Judge George F. Tidy, who doesn't like to give them out, regardless of the law. Thankfully, he's retiring at the end of this month.

 

[Standing Wolf]

Frankly, I think the founding fathers would be appalled by the very idea of random searches for drunken drivers. Where's the probable cause?

 

[Pendragon]

Never, Ever, Ever, EVER, under ANY circumstances consent to a search.

Does not matter that you had nothing to hide. Nothing to hide is what they tell you to get you to surrender your rights. Consenting to a search WAIVES your right to contest anything they find in the search.

Maybe Osifer Frenly is looking for a promotion. Maybe you look like a good drug bust. Long hair, gun, no permit - hmm. Just because he plants the drugs on you does not mean you dont have any of your own (he says to himself).

Maybe your friend had something.

Maybe the previous owner of your car had something.

Consenting promotes the idea that they can search you without PC.

I have already decided that no matter how hot it is, how big a hurry I am in and how nice the officer is, I will not consent to a search.

I will be nice.

They will say "you have to wait here until the dog gets here".

I will ask if I can listen to the radio while I wait.

I have nothing to hide. Therefore, I will not consent to be searched. Think about it. If you "have nothing to hide" then you do not need to be searched. What they want to do is VERIFY that you are not a bad guy - for NO REASON. If they have a reason, then they do not need to ask.

When they ask if they can search, they are really saying:

"Sir, we have nothing to indicate that you are breaking the law, but would you mind letting us search for something that indicates you are breaking the law? - that way we can arrest you and convict you of a crime- be a good sport now."

They use the threat of inconvenience (wait for a warrant or a dog or whatever) to put your very freedom on the table pending the outcome of a search.

Never consent because if they have a good reason, they do not need your consent.

 

[MitchSchaft]

Pendragon nailed it. My freedom is more important than a minor inconvenience of waiting for a dog or a search warrant. It's about principle at that point.

 

[doseyclwn]

Gee, I guess I'm just not concerned about my rights now, am I? I'll just go into a corner and sulk.

Not!

I consented to the search because I love you.

 

[Pendragon]

That was not intended as an attack. Only as expository writing.

 

[doseyclwn]

That was not intended as an attack. Only as expository writing

I realize that. I'm just being silly for the most part.