From your LEO experience when pulled over

[HIcarry]

If you are pulled over by a law enforcement officer and the officer has a "strong hunch" that you are about to engage in criminal activity or simply fears for his or her safety the law enforcement officer can...

No. To be legal, the Terry stop must satisfy a two pronged test. You may stop someone if you believe that there was, is, or about to be a crime committed. After the stop, if you can articulate a specific concern that the suspect is armed or dangerous and might be armed, you may do a quick pat down of his outer clothing for weapons. Even Wikipedia gets this one right.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_v._Ohio

And mljdeckard...a "strong hunch" and "WHEN THEY HAVE AN ARTICULABLE REASON" are synonymous to me. Any argument otherwise is a based on semantics and an exercise in futility.

No, it's not "semantics" it is a requirement. Here's a test. On your next arrest report, instead of listing the observable facts, just put you had a "hunch." I'm sure your commanding officer will consider the phrase more than just semantics. Of course, if you're so inclined, you can write the report with the findings of any illegal/inappropriate search as the basis for your supposed pre-search articulatable facts, (i.e. lie based on the findings...) but then you need to be careful as your carrer in law enforcement could be in jeopardy because of the Brady v. Maryland (1963) case and subsequent clarifying opinion in Giglio v. United States (1972). BUt, since you seem so well versed, I am sure you already knew this...

I'm all for officer safety, but if you're going to spout off about the law and the legality of searches, at least provide the correct information.

 

[Deanimator]

Deanimator, it almost seems as if you are arguing with yourself. I never implied, and further, actually explained that police are almost never there when the **** goes down. I have alsolutely no problem with a person defending themself. You simply cannot appreciate the fact that police do respond and protect people thousands of times a day. About this you are as wrong as wrong can be. And as far as legal obligations and physical abilities I have proved myself and I am not dead. Again, have you ever been a professional law enforcement officer? What authority do you offer as proof as to your abilities? What do you possibly know about domestic law enforcement that I do not?

My job is not to enforce the law. It's to protect ME as an individual. The job of the police is NOT to "protect" me as an individual. It is to enforce the law.

You simply cannot appreciate the fact that police have no duty to protect you as an individual and almost certainly WON'T, and indeed CAN'T. You may have a police protective detail following you around wherever you go, but I DON'T, and neither do 99.9% of the population.

You need to learn the difference between wishful thinking and reality, before reality takes a big bite out of your fourth point of contact. And trust me, with your attitude, it's going to.

Find out what the average police response time in your neighborhood is. Then estimate how many stab wounds somebody could inflict upon you in that time. Ask yourself if you could survive being stabbed that many times until the police show up. My godsister couldn't.

I've got the wherewithal to keep myself alive. More importantly, I've got the single most important ingredient necessary to defend MYSELF: I'm always HERE. I don't have to try to get to a phone to call myself while somebody's chasing me around the house with a bat, an axe or a gun. I'm never going to put myself on hold. I'm never going to get my location wrong. I'm never going to demand that I put the man trying to murder me on the phone like Detroit 911 did to the woman whose husband had just shot her. I'm not going to get lost on the way to where I'm being attacked. I'm not going to have the desire to wait until things are over to respond to being attacked.

You keep believing that the police will or even can protect you as an individual. Just be prepared to join the tens of thousands of people every year who believed that and were wrong, DEAD wrong.

 

[t165]

The next time you see one tell him to his face!

 

[Deanimator]

Armchair law enforcement officers

The only "law" I enforce is "survival of the fittest".

Keep pretending that the police "protect" individuals. It isn't true, but you apparently find comfort in it.

 

[t165]

The quote was not meant for you Deanimator. I pretty much agree with everything you have said about rights and self protection. You seem to have had a bad experience with an unamed law enforcement agency and the National Alliance which has left a bad impression on you. I know law enforcement cannot always be there in time to help protect people. I know case law says law enforcement cannot be held responsible when people get injured/killed. I was just trying to make the case that most LE officers will try their best to help and they often do just that.

 

[pbearperry]

Highroad?

The only thing high here is the Trolling Mall Ninjas.lol

 

[t165]

Okay I'll bite...what is a trolling mall ninja?

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=mall ninja

 

[t165]

Ouch pbearperry...was that directed at me?

 

[t165]

Hows this! I have no problem making my name visible but I was chastised on another site so I blacked it out.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

i think he was referencing "the usual suspects" not you

 

[t165]

Okay! I'm rather new here...am I dealing with someone who does not have both oars in the water?

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

if you are talking about me yes pbear less so i think he was referring to a certain number of folks here who have
http://www.hoanewsnetwork.com/media/anti_government_phobia_are_you_mentally_ill.php

 

[t165]

Got it! Perhaps I should post a scan of my wife's United States Treasury Department credentials and really get the **** started!

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

hang around it don't take much or do a search for locked threads about the zog/bluehemets/nwo waco and ruby ridge turn up some interesting ideas too

 

[Rockwell1]

How did we go from probable cause to ZOG?

And while we're out here in left field, I agree with DA I do not see the police as my protectors. They're more punishment than protection

 

[t165]

Thanks for the replies and pm's to let me know what I'm dealing with.

 

[marsofold]

I can't believe that the mods let this thread run as long as it has.

 

[Rockwell1]

I'm some what surprised it got this far off the track.

I have a major migrane and I'm having a hard time typing so I'm signing off for the night I'm sure this will me locked by tomorrow

You could report it if you really want it locked

Goodnight

 

[mljdeckard]

If you think a strong hunch and an articulable reason are the same thing, stay in your current job.

 

[t165]

I would have better luck arguing with a stoplight!

 

[element19_98]

I honestly have never heard a story of a cop helping anyone i know,everytime i hear about there involvment it just ends up cosing people money. I could definitely see one marrying somone in the treasury dept.

 

[Jeff White]

I think we'll just file this thread with other ones on the subject....everything that can be said has been....And a bunch that doesn't need to be said has been....just like all the rest of the threads on this subject.