From your LEO experience when pulled over

[beatcop]

THEN when he finds out you're clean something drops out of his pocket and onto your floorboard.

Do you actually have anything informative to add to this thread? Skip the inflamatory BS, any real exchange here is ruined by this type of fiction.

 

[aeonrevolution]

I've got a question on this.

What if you follow the mantra of "Am I free to leave?" , "I do not consent to a search" , and "I'd like to talk to my lawyer".


after all that what if the cop directly orders you to step out of your car? If you just say you need to talk to your lawyer can't they construe that as resisting?

 

[beatcop]

Aeonrevolution- The Supreme Court has deemed that you CAN be ordered out of the vehicle....not complying may result in arrest.

 

[aeonrevolution]

That is what I figured.

So, say this supposedly happens and you are ordered to step out of your vehicle.

Would you lock your car or just leave the door open? I would imagine that about 25-50% of the contents in your car would be viewable when you exit the car.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

depends what i'm hiding

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

i hate to spoil the fantasies but as a young feller i was less than saintly met lots of cops for a variety of causes. i hate to lie so when they asked me questions that i knew they knew the answer to i decided to shock em and tell em the truth. ymmv but in my case i got good results. cops get tired of getting lied to especially bad lies. often the truth i told them was far from good but the truth often seemed to get me the maximum possible officer discretion. probably too much. but then again most of what i did was in the misdemeanor stupid category. there were a couple time i did more serious stuff and had to pay the price but even then i found there was no point in lieing on issues they were gonna find out anyway. it is funny when they ask you "ever been arrested?" and you say "yes sir! lots of times!" especially now that i'm an old law abiding fart old enough to be their dad.the kinda things i talk about are traffic or smoking pot or even back n the old days drinking. that 2 beers lie is old to em. and if they can smell the pot why lie? if i get tagged for speeding i own it. i try to follow the advice willie nelson gave james cann in the movie thief about lying.i'm not saying you need to confess all your sins if you get pulled over but i try not to be stupid and the results have astounded my friends

 

[beatcop]

Would you lock your car or just leave the door open? I would imagine that about 25-50% of the contents in your car would be viewable when you exit the car.

This is a good question...can't say I've run into this. First of all, I would bet this will vary with some State laws.

In my area, a search of a vehicle's interior is permissable after a "custodial arrest"(for example), regardless of whether the arrestee is handcuffed in the back of the cruiser or not. Sounds strange, but that's the case law...that's an arrest with probable cause though.

I'm going out on a limb, but the liklihood of the "potentially armed & dangerous suspect" retrieving a weapon, would probably allow the "pat down" of the wingspan of the driver, whether the door has just been locked or not. imho

-If you're ordered out based on PC, there's a "reduced expectation of privacy" when dealing w/vehicles, so no warrant is needed.

 

[Rockwell1]

If you ever get a chance sit down and watch an episode of COPS. 99% of the time the police find drugs it's because the person knowing they had drugs in the car gave consent to the search.

And in almost every single case as soon as the Officer shows them the drugs the first words out of their mouth is " That's not mine" and the Cop's saying " Ok mr. bad guy I just found this 6 pounds of cocaine sitting in plain view on the passenger seat. You were the only one in the car, and you're going to tell me someone snuck it into your car without your consent?"

Sometimes the Officer actually tells the person "you need to just shut up right now." and they still keep talking!

Ok I know you don't keep drugs in your car, I don't keep drugs in my car either. How do you know you didn't just hit that one in a thousand cop that will plant dope?

If the video referenced earlier in this thread hasn't convinced you not to waive your nights nothing I say here will either.

Personally, I will never give consent to a search and if things ever get to the point they're asking I will ask for a lawyer.

Men much wiser than I wrote those articles into the Bill of Rights primarily for the protection of the innocent. If they in their wisdom felt I'd be better of maintaining my silence and my rights whom am I to argue?

 

[Rockwell1]

There were a couple time i did more serious stuff and had to pay the price

We can assume , that you fall under the category of Prohibited Person then right?

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

not anymore there is a process for rights restoration thats not that bad after you stay outa trouble for 20+ years. but i was a stem twister as a young man.heck i was 18 years without a drivers license and that was without a dui just regular traffic stupidity


by the way when you season you'll find that old saw about ass u me to be true

 

[Rockwell1]

Perhaps you can aquaint us with the process of rights restoration at some point. I would find your insight facinating.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

the hardest part was pulling my head out of my tail long enough to learn how not to screw up anymore. i'm ashamed to tell you how old i was before that happened.

 

[mattjj]

To be fair, officers don't know what to expect when approaching someone. The ability to pat for a weapon is fair. I assume officers hate reference to the show cops - but, howcome I always see them pulling everything from a person's pockets? Lighters, keys, etc.? The pat down is for obvious weapons and for the officer's safety, not an end run around personal privacy, right? I'm from New England and this was one of our main grievances against Red Coats.

 

[solareclipse]

If he has reasonable suspicion based on something in plain sight.. it slightly varies by state. However generally telling them no will dissuade most unless they *really* feel there is something and want to take the chance of being wrong. 90% of the time its just a fishing expedition and they expect you to forget your rights and be a good sheep and just go with the flow.

That said, if you dont know your rights or how to assert them, you are better off playing the sheep since you can make a non issue a situation quite easily.

Ive refused to give them ID and so forth numerous times. This of course does not apply if you are driving. But if they stop you in the street.. no dice. Legally you must give your name however (aka ID yourself) but not the actual plastic

 

[Rockwell1]

The above does not apply in jurisdictions that require you to inform the Officer you're carrying and present your permit

 

[mattjj]

solareclipse, Rockwell1 - thanks for the replies. So, I should say 'I do not consent to this search'? On the one hand I want to be reasonable and comply with whatever an officer asks, on the other we fought a war against the world's superpower because of stuff like this - kind of a big deal to me - the principle of it - but asserting rights just pisses them off, doesn't it?

 

[Rockwell1]

WATCH THE VIDEO Some very wise men agree that regardless of guilt or innocence your interests are NOT best served by waiving your rights.

but asserting rights just pisses them off, doesn't it?

Not always, but even if it does you're still better off politely asserting ( huge difference between being assertive and aggressive ) your rights.

Never physically resist , if the Officer tells you he has probable cause tell him that you'd still like to go on record as not consenting. If he hands you a warrant, you're still better off telling him that you'd still like to go on record as not consenting.

Then follow directions and DON'T SAY ANOTHER WORD.

In closing

WATCH THE VIDEO Some very wise men agree that regardless of guilt or innocence your interests are NOT best served by waiving your rights

PS
WATCH THE VIDEO Some very wise men agree that regardless of guilt or innocence your interests are NOT best served by waiving your rights

 

[beatcop]

mattjj- Most LEO's don't get their feelings hurt to easily or pissed off, it's usually staged for effect.

I tend to smile when I run into someone that "knows the deal"....and smile even more for the ones that have watched to many episodes COPS

 

[mattjj]

Thanks guys.

beatcop - I'd like to communicate that, while on their side, I highly value the Constitution. And I don't want to come across as a know it all prick. I just don't know how to handle it, ie: "Sorry to be a dick but I'm a big fan of the American Revolution and I do not consent to this search"? If I say nothing and the officer rifles through my pockets - I assume he has done nothing wrong - and I have not respected the rights people have died to give me.

 

[Rockwell1]

"Sorry to be a dick but I'm a big fan of the American Revolution and I do not consent to this search"

Less is more "Officer, I do not consent to any searches"

Officer, I'd like to speak to my attorney before I answer any questions.

"Am I free to go"

I'm a little on the fence on this one. I think it's pointless if he pulled you over you're not.

If he's suspicious enough to ask for a search, you're not

The only time I'd use it is if I were stopped on foot and I'd use it immediately.

If I say nothing and the officer rifles through my pockets - I assume he has done nothing wrong -

The officer has the right to pat you down and make sure you're not carrying a weapon. Anytime he asks you to step out of the vehicle you probably want to hand him your PERMIT. Try to avoid any thing that sounds like " I have a gun". Just hand him your permit he'll get the idea.

Keep it simple

BEATCOP: mattjj would you step out of the car please.

MATTJJ: I need to hand you this first Officer (courtesy titles go a long way), what would you like me to do next.

Follow directions


COMMON SENSE DISCLAIMER

I believe that a certain amount of caution is called for any time you speak to the police, officially.

You may think he pulled you over for speeding but he might have just got a radio call saying that a car matching your description was last seen leaving a robbery on 3rd & main, and he may be trying to to tie you to that location. "Where you coming from tonight?" takes on a whole new meaning.

If, on the other hand, he says "how are you doing" to you in line at 7-11 you probably don't need to ask to speak to your lawyer. (You might even pay for his coffe)

DISCLAIMER
I'm neither a cop nor a lawyer.

WATCH THE VIDEO

 

[mattjj]

"If, on the other hand, he says "how are you doing" to you in line at 7-11 you probably don't need to ask to speak to your lawyer. (You might even pay for his coffe)"

LOL. And thanks. People seem very helpful here.

If a LEO could respond to the search question it would be greatly appreciated. Honestly, using the weapons pat down as an end run around personal privacy rights - inspecting everything on your person - just seems very wrong.

 

[Deanimator]

the hardest part was pulling my head out of my tail long enough to learn how not to screw up anymore. i'm ashamed to tell you how old i was before that happened.

See, I never did any of those things. I don't do them now. That means that if I have some kind of contact with a cop, he's fishing for something, and on a very thin pretext indeed. Having generally behaved myself in life, I have minimal contact with the police, and pretty much zero sympathy for anybody who violates my rights, knowingly or otherwise.

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

what kinda contacts do you have then? its a funny thing the more squeaky clean some folks are the more police contact tends to knot them up. my dad is like that. hes one of those old school obey the rules guys. straight a student skipped 2 grades graduated from college when he was 19 did the airforce thing worked for the government when he got out missed 7 days in 35 years of work 5 of em to have an operation. never had a car accident. pays more taxes than he has to because he feels he owes the government. hes gotten one ticket his whole life for going over the yellow line. to hear him describe it it ranks up there with knapp reprt. i was here and he was in fact crossing the yellow line. the cop that he decribes as snotty was professional and probably coulda given a sobriety test. dad had 2 beers with dinner a couple hours earlier yet when asked denied drinking. i think he was scared and resented being stopped . it seems to bother the "good citizens" more than guys who aknowledge police contact as part of the cost of doing business in their lifestyle.that fear of authority thing might be what keeps them on the straight and narrow. for me i don't fear em anymore. i've learned that i want a certain standard of living and to get and keep it i need to behave in a certain way. i want that life so much i eagerly behave its not a burden or real restriction on me. sides i already know what life on the other side is like so there is no lure of forbidden fruit for me. i think the straight arrow folks freak more when pulled over cause they feel they don't deserve to be treated like this since they are "good citizens" the ccw guys think that makes em "certified " good guys

 

[beatcop]

If, on the other hand, he says "how are you doing" to you in line at 7-11 you probably don't need to ask to speak to your lawyer.

That is some funny stuff! Some folks have lost sense of this by the sounds of things...

To answer your question, I'm sure some cops use the pat down to look for evidence...you're not supposed to, but it happens.

You can pat down for weapons & retrieve them. If something is "readily apparent" as contraband (that which is illegal in and of itself), the discovery holds up.

You're not supposed to play the piano in one area trying to figure out what something is, but if a plastic bic lighter feels like a jack knife, you pull it out. You have to articulate why some things feel like contraband:

I patted down the right-front pocket of the accused, I felt a round object that was approximately 4" long and appeared to be approximately 1/4" in diameter. Through my training at the ----- academy & previous narcotics arrests, I readily identified the object as a glass smoking pipe, commonly used to smoke "crack" cocaine. I subsequently retrieved the object from the pocket of the accused and inspected it. The glass smoking pipe had residue
inside it.....

I responded to the store, where store security had stopped joe-the-crackhead. They indicated that he had been observed placing XXXX into his waistband and had left the store without paying. I patted him down and readily identified a socket wrench tucked in his waistband (WRONG! Can't pat down for evidence!). Should be: Cop: This is the guy? Security: Yup Cop: Ok, Sir you're under arrest...handcuffs, search, evidence recovered (Good).

Mistaken car stop after a report of a vehicle fleeing an assault--
Driver-Why am I being stopped?
Cop-You are driving a vehicle fitting the description of....or "get out"
Driver-I won't get out! (Arrest)
Driver-Here's my permit
Cop- Thanks, step out (cuffed for safety & disarmed)
Dispatch- Wrong car
Cop-Thank you for your cooperation, sorry to inconveniece you...here's your gun.

 

[Deanimator]

what kinda contacts do you have then?

Since I moved to Ohio, virtually none. The last contact I had with the police was last year when I went to the local police department to help a lawyer friend ID some guns in an estate dispute.

My contacts with and observations of the police when I was growing up were mostly negative. I've seen first hand what happens when you let the cops get away with stuff because they have a "hard job".

As I said, I don't do things which draw the repeated attention of the police. That means that if the police make contact with me, it's probably not going to be for a good or even a lawful reason. My reaction is simply going to be one utterly devoid of pity. Don't like that? Mess with somebody else. People who do a lot of things they shouldn't, need "breaks" from the police. I don't do those things and don't need the cops to let them "slide". Treat me as if I do, and my policy is scorched earth.