An update on the happenings in my neighborhood.

[kwelz]

Well I finally found out more of what was going on. My neighbor was selling pot, quite a bit of it in fact. A large number of teens were coming and going at all hours and that has stopped.

SRT was used because of the number of firearms in the house.

In talking to the other neighbors it turns out that this guy has been suspect in a number of happenings around the area long before I ever moved in. In one case every car in the neighborhood had it's tires slashed except his. (Did I mention he manages a Goodyear) There was also an attempted break-in not that long ago of the house of a Woman just down the street. The person she saw looks a lot like one of the people that is usually at the house.


That is all I know for now. And can we please not turn this thread into a "JBT wants to come get my nice Pot that never hurt anyone" thread.

 

[NG VI]

Well that makes a lot more sense now, although I'm still not sure the "number of guns" would make it any more useful to have the SWAT team there as opposed to just serving the warrant with a half dozen or so officers and detectives.

But hopefully all that other nonsense around your area will cease now.

 

[Archer1945]

The reason you send a SWAT team is because many marijuana growers are known to be either heavily armed, have booby traps set, or both. Your average cop or detective is neither trained nor has the equipment to handle situations such as this.

 

[xsquidgator]

Thanks for updating us.

Just curious, I got the impression that it wasn't too obvious (to you and to the other neighbors) that anything uncouth was going on, let alone a lot of peddling. Is that correct? In light of what you now know, would you say there were a number of signs such as the incidents you mention, that would have pointed at him? I'm just asking, I don't know and am curious.

I live in a "nice" soccer mom type neighborhood, with two sheriff's deputies across the street (they are both neighbors to each other) and a city police officer 1/2 block away, and a FL state trooper 1 1/2 blocks away. So that's at least 3 police cruisers of one kind or another that are almost always parked in front of these houses. A guy across the street from me started renting his house out to some guys who I think are college students but who were a little on the wild side with some unsavory friends (yes, even living next door to a deputy). We had some stuff going on for a couple of weeks after they moved in including a car broken into. No SWAT raids but I think the sheriff's deputy on the corner had a "come to Jesus" talk with them and things got much quieter, thank goodness.

 

[Sato Ord]

Well that makes a lot more sense now, although I'm still not sure the "number of guns" would make it any more useful to have the SWAT team there as opposed to just serving the warrant with a half dozen or so officers and detectives.

The reason cops use so much force in such a situation is that doing so is more likely to keep the situation from getting out of hand. They would much rather have a swat team and not fire a shot, than not show up with swat and run the risk that the perp will start a gun fight, especially in a residential neighborhood.

If the perps start shooting, always a possibility, but especially if there isn't a clear show of force from law enforcement, the chances of stray rounds going into the surrounding houses is pretty good. Best if they show up with full armor and hit the door with a battering ram quick, than take a chance and let the bg get to his weapons.

Before anyone gets their nose out of joint and points out the storm trooper tactics of the police, remember, we are talking about armed bad guys in a residential neighborhood here; children sleeping in their houses just a few yards away and all of that.

 

[woodybrighton]

thats why uk armed coppers always turn up mob handed making the option of shooting your way out and obvious impossibility

 

[kwelz]

People were often coming and going from the house. Honestly it was a bit suspicious, however he also has a number of older children so this wouldn't be totally unheard of.

Some of the other odd occurences happened before I moved in or I just didn't hear about them.

 

[Deanimator]

Before anyone gets their nose out of joint and points out the storm trooper tactics of the police, remember, we are talking about armed bad guys in a residential neighborhood here; children sleeping in their houses just a few yards away and all of that.

That's fine... so long as it IS "armed bad guys". When it ISN'T, then there's a BIG problem and people's careers and finances need to be severely impacted.

If you get the wrong address, don't check to make sure what you think is going on is really going on, or worse LIE to get a warrant, then you've needlessly endangered the lives of innocent people, possibly including other cops. There have to be SERIOUS consequences for that. All too often, there aren't.

 

[kwelz]

Oh yeah I meant to make a comment about the wrong address and all that. I was told by one of my friends on the force that every member is required to drive by the house multiple times in a civi vehicle in the days leading up to the raid. They muct be able to identify the house in daylight and at night and they apparently do a dang good job of identifying the correct houses and checking thier info.

It is an extreme case when they go into a house without a LOT of preperation.

At least around here they are willing to learn from the mistakes of others.

 

[Deanimator]

At least around here they are willing to learn from the mistakes of others.

Around here, the cops appear to have a modicum of common sense and an apparent desire to uphold the public trust. Too bad that isn't a universal condition in all departments.

 

[JColdIron]

SRT was used because of the number of firearms in the house.

How was this determined? Informant? Purchase records? This should be of great concern to anyone who has "a number of firearms in the house"

 

[MiddleAgedKen]

In our old neighborhood, a parade of cars (all with temporary tags, it seemed) would visit the house across the street from us for fifteen minutes apiece late on weekend nights. We were pretty sure what was going on, we were right.

 

[Bazooka Joe71]

How was this determined?

I was kind of wondering this myself.

 

[Avenger29]

Oh yeah I meant to make a comment about the wrong address and all that. I was told by one of my friends on the force that every member is required to drive by the house multiple times in a civi vehicle in the days leading up to the raid. They muct be able to identify the house in daylight and at night and they apparently do a dang good job of identifying the correct houses and checking thier info.

It is an extreme case when they go into a house without a LOT of preperation.

At least around here they are willing to learn from the mistakes of others.

GOOD! I am very, very glad that your local LE takes careful steps!

 

[primlantah]

The reason you send a SWAT team is because many marijuana growers are known to be either heavily armed, have booby traps set, or both. Your average cop or detective is neither trained nor has the equipment to handle situations such as this.

victim of the drug war propaganda i see....

 

[Robert Hairless]

victim of the drug war propaganda i see....

Please explain.

Do you mean that marijuana growers in Texas are not heavily armed or have booby traps set?

Or do you mean that the average cop or detective in Texas is trained and does have the equipment to handle heavily armed marijuana growers who set booby traps?

 

[Sato Ord]

As far as wrong address goes, that happened on a no knock warrant in Cocoa, Florida about twenty-five years ago. The homeowner shot one officer because they didn't identify themselves and the guy thought it was a home invasion. The homeowner was also shot, but he lived. He was arrested and later found to be within his rights. He was acquitted and filed a law suit for damages. He won the case but sold his house and moved because he felt that the local enforcement officers would hold the incident against him and he wouldn't be able to even drive to work without getting a ticket.

It's sad to say, but some officers did hold it against the innocent homeowner. A fellow officer had died and they wanted the "Perp" imprisoned.

Most officers simply went on with their lives and jobs and the city tightened its requirements for verifying addresses on search warrants.

In all of the time I've been around Law Enforcement this is the only instance I have any personal knowledge of this actually happening, but it is brought up regularly in such discussions as this one as if it happens frequently.

 

[Sergeant Sabre]

Oh yeah I meant to make a comment about the wrong address and all that...they apparently do a dang good job of identifying the correct houses and checking thier info.

I admit that sometimes people get the wrong house. It is extremely rare, however.

A warrant doesn't just say the address, such as "5421 Jones St." Search warrants are required to have the address and a very detailed description of the place to be searched. For example:

The place to be searched is 5421 Jones St. This is a white single-story residence, rectangular in shape and oriented parallel with the roadway. It has a black shingle roof, white siding, and black shutters. The driveway is gray concrete and leads to a garage that is attached to the home. The main doorway is on the residence's south side. On the west side a large portion of the white siding is missing, revealing a patch of pink insulation approximately four feet square.

If you screw it up, it's not because you didn't look at the address. It's cause you didn't even begin to think about where in the world you were going and what the place is supposed to look like.

 

[Sans Authoritas]

Robert Hairless wrote:

Or do you mean that the average cop or detective in Texas is trained and does have the equipment to handle heavily armed marijuana growers who set booby traps?

Robert Hairless,

Certainly, some marijuana growers with outdoor plots use booby traps. Small operations in houses . . . not so much.

However, let's skip the marinade and cut into the meat: why, in your opinion, should anyone "handle" marijuana growers?

I've known quite a number of people who used marijuana on a regular basis. None of them were societal scourges because of it.

And no, I myself have never used marijuana, nor do I ever intend to.

Is unreasonably altering your state of consciousness immoral? Yes. So is getting drunk. Growing and using marijuana to get stoned is as immoral as making homebrew with the intent of getting hammered. Should either act be criminalized in themselves? No. This prohibition is exactly like the prohibition of alcohol, in that it was enacted by a bunch of busybodies who think they have the right to force virtue on other people. At gunpoint. A contradiction in terms.

I'll let God enforce his laws. Men should enforce only laws that infringe on the life, liberty and property of other men.

-Sans Authoritas

 

[cassandrasdaddy]

back in my mispent youth i used and sold pot. sometimes quite a bit of money around always guns. lots of money and an illegal enterprise means you REALLY can't use the cops for protection.(as opposed to just mouthing off about the concept on the net) even back in the 70's there were plenty of robberys. back then the home invaision or pretend to be the cops thing was in style. only a fool would move weight without some kinda protection.believe it or not your client base often lacked in morals and did not play well with others. often rife with wanna be anarchists and poseurs. they are the most dangerous type of fool to have to deal with. for the most part harmless but every once in a while they got a bad batch of cheetos and got brave. today we decribe em as kids who play too much gta and lose sight of their reallity

 

[sierrabravo45]

I thought I had a similar happening when I moved into my neighborhood. Then I found out the neighbor actually had 10 kids. It was kids, grandkids and all that coming over all the time to visit the parents.

LOL

 

[Cosmoline]

The reason cops use so much force in such a situation is that doing so is more likely to keep the situation from getting out of hand. They would much rather have a swat team and not fire a shot, than not show up with swat and run the risk that the perp will start a gun fight, especially in a residential neighborhood.

Exactly. It's the DISPLAY of force that keeps the peace. Most of the really bad incidents happened when too few officers confronted a suspect who figured he had a chance to shoot them and escape. If he has no chance, there is less chance of trouble from him. Pretty much what most gun owners know.

 

[Sans Authoritas]

Cassandras daddy wrote:

back in my mispent youth i used and sold pot. sometimes quite a bit of money around always guns. lots of money and an illegal enterprise means you REALLY can't use the cops for protection.(as opposed to just mouthing off about the concept on the net) even back in the 70's there were plenty of robberys. back then the home invaision or pretend to be the cops thing was in style. only a fool would move weight without some kinda protection.believe it or not your client base often lacked in morals and did not play well with others.

Cassandras daddy, that description sounds exactly like the un-necessary and artificially induced crime wave created during alcohol prohibition.

Who are more dangerous, in your estimation? Drunk people or stoned people?

-Sans Authoritas

 

[siglite]

So we've managed to keep it from being a "JBT's want to kill you all" thread, and now it's a "legalize it" thread.

If you want it legalized, the ballot box is thataway. ----->

I see no ballot box here on THR. Nor do I believe your state legiscritters are reading or participating in this thread. (I could be wrong)

 

[Sans Authoritas]

Siglite, prohibition didn't get repealed by individual citizens voting. It got repealed by enough people who were fed up with it, who ignored the law, finally causing it to collapse under its own dead weight. You take out the support from a useless house nobody wants, and what do you get?

To quote a friend of mine, the fastest way to end a war is not to vote. It's to convince the people at the front lines to not pull the trigger.

I do not think that Sam Adams would have created a poster telling the Colonists how to vote for change. Instead, the founding fathers were particularly fond of writing: illustrating injustices and stupidities for the populace, and thereby kicking at the underpinnings of said injustices and stupidities.

In fact, what is the last policy change that was achieved by individual citizens voting? Are any candidates in favor of legalization? If not, how do you suppose they are created and garner support? Certainly not the voting booth.

Anyway, Sig, why not counter some of my logic and reasoning, instead of dismissing it out of hand?

-Sans Authoritas