Anachronisms in movies

[lathedog]

Regarding "The Green Berets", there is a scene at the very beginning where they show typical VC weapons at a press conference. The book was written about events in 1963 as I recall, and I think the movie was made in 1968. I'm not so sure about the teams having Armalite rifles in 1963, that might be a bit early. The VC weapons shown are accurate to the book. Heck, the movie was made before the NVA were really extensively involved in an open manner.

"Raiders of the Lost Ark" was cool, but showed MP38s and Panzerfaust-44's in 1935. Also Pistole-38's if I recall. Also lots of Afrika Korps guys running around and shooting up the town with overtly non-clandestine Gestpo agents in British controlled Egypt. As if the British would put up with that sort of crap.

Somone mentioned "Titanic" on a similar post I read a few years back, the sensitive looking fiance running around with the nickeled 1911 or 1911A1 in 1912.

Most westerns incorrectly show 1892 Winchesters (or 1894 models) while the movie depicts an earlier era. Same for '73 Peacemakers. It wasn't until the Spaghetti Westerns that htis started to be corrected. Also the early episodes of Bonanza were the Cartrights all packed cap'n'ball revolvers.

Not an anachronism, but I always wondered if "Sand Pebbles" should have shown the US sailors using Lee Navy straight pulls. The BAR was a bit early, but helped make the movie better.

I could go on and on and on....but I won't.

Cheers.

 

[swampgator]

Regarding "The Green Berets", there is a scene at the very beginning where they show typical VC weapons at a press conference. The book was written about events in 1963 as I recall, and I think the movie was made in 1968. I'm not so sure about the teams having Armalite rifles in 1963, that might be a bit early.

On page 21 of my paperback copy, Moore lists his abbreviations. He makes reference to the "AR-15"

AR-15 - New high-powered light automatich rifle used by Special Forces. Offically designated the M-16 by the Army.

Given that I'm guessing they were in use by SFGs in VN at that time.

 

[Deanimator]

Not an anachronism, but I always wondered if "Sand Pebbles" should have shown the US sailors using Lee Navy straight pulls. The BAR was a bit early, but helped make the movie better.

I've read the book. It's set in the _1920s_ and or early '30s. 6mm Lees were LONG gone by then. '03 Springfields, Lewis Guns and maybe BARs were perfectly appropriate to the period.

The movie that SHOULD have had Lees was "55 Days at Peking", set during the Boxer Rebellion, when the Navy and Corps actually used the 6mm Lee.

 

[shooter503]

"Zulu" was extremely accurate in all its military details, even down to the bayonet drill and ammunition cases.

The one item I did notice is that one soldier had his Martini assembled with the "cocking indicator" inserted 90 degrees out of position. I figure if the Sergeant had noticed that he would probably have made him re-assemble his rifle - even in the middle of the battle !!!

 

[bogie]

"Raiders of the Lost Ark" was cool, but showed MP38s and Panzerfaust-44's in 1935. Also Pistole-38's if I recall. Also lots of Afrika Korps guys running around and shooting up the town with overtly non-clandestine Gestpo agents in British controlled Egypt. As if the British would put up with that sort of crap.

You see, those were Nazis who time-travelled back, due to Hitler's top-secret time machine... Luckily the unit was wiped out, and the location of the machine was lost, until it was developed again in late 1944.

Firebase Gloria was shot in the Phillippines, and most of the VC are locals...

 

[mordrid52]

Zulu does have a few issues. The biggest being the Webley MkVI revolvers 30+ years before they were introduced (and a year before the Webley MKI). Supposedly, some of the rifles used in the big fight at the end (when all the soldiers are on screen at the same time) are some kind of Lee-Metford rather than Henry-Martinis. I'm not very familiar with old British weapons so I can't confirm that.

 

[Stickjockey]

DB-Tanker:

Actually, the Tigers in KH were modified T-34's. Take a close look at the tracks.

 

[Warren]

"As you know, you make a war movie with the props you have, not the props you might want or wish to have at a later time." D.H. Rumsfeld.

 

[wuluf]

not an anachronism, but we watched "the davinci code" last night (awful movie, imo) and one of the characters is holding a cocked snubnose revolver to someone's head, but is ordered to put it down. When she does it is uncocked! i love noticing stuff like that..my wife is less amused for some reason...

 

[44AMP]

As long as they try

I'll give the movies a pass. From older movies I'll accept models as ships, the wrong planes and tanks. The wrong guns is a bit more serious, but as long as they don't get so obvious as to be rediculous, I'll take it witrh a minimum of complaint, because the real things seldom exist anymore, outside of a few museums and private collections.

I do dislike the "put you in the battle" camera work, if overdone. It is one thing to try, and not get it quite "right", but another entirely to be able to get it as right as possible, but not bothering.

Some of the computer graphics available today are just incredible. But it saddens me to see them go to such an attempt for accuracy, and then get something relativley simple (and easy to fix) wrong or missing. Beautifully recreated aircraft, with correct camo, but they fly and maneuver without moving control surfaces. Rows of tanks, but one side is the mirror image of the other (and yes, it does make a difference).

One of my hobbies is reading about and building models of WWII equipment (planes, tanks, ships, etc). So errors like these really stand out to me.

My other pet peeve is misuse of actual historical footage. The editors of material used on the History channel are constantly doing this. I realize they have to fill up a certain anount of time with images, and there are not many images of certain events, but it bugs me to see footage of early war panzers while they talk about the Battle of the Bulge. Or scenes of late war navy aircraft fighting the Japanese on a show about the Battle of the Coral Sea.

So close......

 

[Prince Yamato]

My other pet peeve is misuse of actual historical footage. The editors of material used on the History channel are constantly doing this. I realize they have to fill up a certain anount of time with images, and there are not many images of certain events, but it bugs me to see footage of early war panzers while they talk about the Battle of the Bulge. Or scenes of late war navy aircraft fighting the Japanese on a show about the Battle of the Coral Sea.

There is this one piece of war footage they always show of a battle over the Pacific, it's the gunners view of a plane being shot down from behind, a couple feet over the ocean, the rear explodes and the plane nose-dives right into the water. The scene has been on more war shows than I can remember and the downed plane has been constantly described as being both Japanese or American depending on the documentary. It makes me angry to no end. I just want to know what the damn plane was! Japanese or American!?

 

[OEF_VET]

Regarding "The Green Berets":

During the scene where the SF soldiers are on patrol near the river, just how many Georgia pines do you think they had in Vietnam?

Also, at the end of the movie, when Duke and "Short Round" are looking out over the ocean, they are watching the sunset. Well, the Vietnamese coast faces east, and as we all know, the sun sets to the west.

 

[griz]

not an anachronism, but we watched "the davinci code" last night (awful movie, imo) and one of the characters is holding a cocked snubnose revolver to someone's head, but is ordered to put it down. When she does it is uncocked! i love noticing stuff like that..my wife is less amused for some reason...

There's also a scene where the bad guy "cocks" a Glock. Holloywood provided the sound and thumb motion, but left out the hammer. Just like your wife, my girlfriend didn't care much about that detail.

 

[Lebben-B]

During the scene where the SF soldiers are on patrol near the river, just how many Georgia pines do you think they had in Vietnam?

Also, at the end of the movie, when Duke and "Short Round" are looking out over the ocean, they are watching the sunset. Well, the Vietnamese coast faces east, and as we all know, the sun sets to the west.

I never realized that Viet Nam looked so much like South Georgia.

And The sun setting on the South China Sea just goes to prove that John Wayne IS God!

 

[Stickjockey]

"Pearl Harbor"

Modern destroyers being bombed (Spruance class, IIRC)

50-star flag (can't remember where, but I do remember the flag)

1942 license plate on one of the cars

MP's jeep on the golf course was an M-38 (Korean War military version of the CJ-3A)

P-40's were -K or -N models. Should have been -B or -C's.

B-25's were -J models. Raiders used stripped-down -C's.

 

[Manedwolf]

Somone mentioned "Titanic" on a similar post I read a few years back, the sensitive looking fiance running around with the nickeled 1911 or 1911A1 in 1912.

Yes...the revolvers earlier were fine, and all British transatlantic liners DID have a full arms chest for the officers, but you can clearly see that that the nickel 1911 featured later has a curved mainspring housing when closeup, making it a 1911A1.

 

[swampgator]

Regarding "The Green Berets":

During the scene where the SF soldiers are on patrol near the river, just how many Georgia pines do you think they had in Vietnam?

Also, at the end of the movie, when Duke and "Short Round" are looking out over the ocean, they are watching the sunset. Well, the Vietnamese coast faces east, and as we all know, the sun sets to the west.

I can't complain. My mom worked at the college here back when they were filming it. All the Vietnamese students going to school got jobs on the film since it was filmed just up the road a ways. Anyway, of the guys in the film gave my mom a 3x5 of him in costume with the Duke in costume. On the back it says, "best wishes, John Wayne". I plan on having it framed when it comes into my possession.

As for the film, yeah, I always ask my Father in law, "Did VN really look like Ft Benning?"

 

[oneshooter]

In the John Wayne epic"The Alamo", during the final battle scene a Mexican soldato comes running around the corner, fires his flint musket, and just before the camera cuts away......... opens the trapdoor breech to eject the empty blank!!!

Many trapdoor rifles were modified by adding a frizzen and welding a flint cock ti the hammer.

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

 

[FLCLIFF]

Quote:
I just hate seeing P-51 Mustang's with a Swastika painted on the side, and U.S. Patton or Walker tanks playing the part of WW-II German tanks.



I saw this in A Walk in the Sun but it was still a great war film.

 

[cbsbyte]

I fully understand in the old days before modern reproductions, or cheap surplus weapons, film makers had to use what was available to make a war movie. Yes, it can be annoying that they are not using period weapons but that is only lost on gun owners. Most viewers will not notice or care that they used the wrong weapons. Today there should be less of an excuse to make period films with the wrong gear, since Italian manufactures make weapons of early time periods, and their are millions cheap surplus weapons for modern times. Since their are few WWII German vehicles that survived the demilitrzation after the war, now with the large production budgets, they now can make accurate mockups, or through digital technology make entire army. For example in the Speilberg DVD interview for Band of Brothers, he went on about how military historians, reenactors, etc where activley trying to make the production more historicaly accurate down to little details, which probably drove the prop & wardrobe departs nuts, as the correct road wheels on a Stug III mockup and even German soliders having small pocket inside their Field blouse for a bandage. Which actually makes it into the Bulge part of the movie where the American medic removes a rolled bandage from captured and dead Germans to supplment his supply. Hollywood is getting better and they do their research before they start filming the movie. Though they still make mistakes it is less of an issue than it was thirty or forty years ago. Remember Hollywood did not even bother with the correct period hairstyles for years. For instance it was common to see WWII soliders especially Americans or British with sideburns and long hair. Now they pay alot of attention to hairstyles, makeup and wardrobe.

 

[SoCalShooter]

It's noticing things like that that keep many of us single.

Apparently I am going to be single for a very very long time.

 

[Phil DeGraves]

The Legend of Zorro (one of the stupidest movies of all time) had more historical errors than any I have ever seen, and the wrong guns too.

In "Unforgiven" one of the guys in the posse that's chased Ned says, "I need more 30-30 shells!" The movie is supposed to be 1888 or thereabouts, 6 years before the 30-30. Why couldn't he have said 44 Winchester? Good movie though.

 

[clarkford]

Sniper 2

If you guys watch sniper 2 with Tom Berenger, you will notice that halfway through the movie he is in an underground weapons cache with a rebel. He spots a Mosin-Nagant and walks towards it in awe. As he picks it up admiring the rifle he says "7.92 Mauser. It`s an antique, but one of the finest rifles the Germans ever built." ....ooooookaaaaaaay. I suppose he was just reading what the writers told him to say. that sucks.

 

[usmccpl]

I have lost count of how many movies and TV shows Ive seen where somebody cocks the hammer on a Glock,P7,or Ruger Mk II. But the other day I was proud of my wife. We saw a scene where it happened once again and she yelled" NO THAT CAN'T HAPPEN".

 

[Avenger]

Pearl Harbor: the 4-door vert they drive to the airfield, with the '42 plates on it, is a '48. In one shot, the background features the U.S.S. Arizona Memorial. And isn't the BMG that Cuba Gooding fires a modern heavy barrel?

That plane that Prince Yamato mentioned was a Ki-43 Tony if I remember correctly. There are VERY few pieces of Japanese gun camera film around, most of what little was made was destroyed after the war. And frankly, after mid-44 Japanese gun film would mostly have shown blue sky as the camera shook under the impact of multiple .50BMG hits.