Another amazing gun control talk with my wife...

[Nightwing]

We were talking about the shootings, and the issue of gun free zones.
She starts saying that people don't need guns! Instead we need to encourage parents to spend more time teaching their kids to be better people, and we wouldn't have this issue in the first place.
I then say.... but even if that was realistic and we solved all of the mental problems and all of these messed up gun men from existing, then what would the harm of having guns be in that situation?
She says "guns aren't the answer!"
Ok so then we get talking about people breaking into our house again.
Me: Honey... if someone broke into the house and had a gun to my head, and I didn't have any way to defend myself before it got to that point, then what would you say?
Her: I'd say that's why we shouldn't have guns!
Me: But we do have guns! And this guy is in our house with the intent of raping and killing. Maybe hurting our kid! If there was a ban on firearms, I would have no way to even attempt to defend us, and this guy has all the means to hurt us!
Her: But if there was a gun ban, why would he have a gun?
Me: !!!!!!! BECAUSE LAWS DON'T APPLY TO HIM! HE'S A CRIMINAL.
Her: Well... then that's his problem. We're not above the law, and we would NOT have a gun.

OH GOD...... I'm being so calm and reasoning with her about it, but she won't hear a word of it.

Then she talks about "Remember in school how the teachers would say "Since *Johnny* screwed up in this area, the whole classroom has lost this privilege"(Like..johnny takes too many bathroom breaks and screws around in the halls, so now the whole class will have it's hall pass privileges removed)
I say "sure"
She says "That's what we need more of! If nobody has the right, then people will put pressure on the one that screwed it up for everyone!:
"But honey.... the majority of these guys can't "feel the pressure" of society, because they will be killed by police or kill themselves, after murdering innocent people!"
"Well then there's ntohing we can do about that."
Me: "But honey....if johnny screws up with his hall pass privileges, why not just punish johnny?"
HEr: "Because you can't single people out! It's belittling to that person and makes them feel like an inferior in the group"
Me: "Isn't that the point of punishment for an individual? To make them recognize that the others were able to follow the rules, but they weren't! That's why their privelage has been removed".
Her: That's just not fair.

Oh man....can't even finish a conversation becasue it jumps all over the place and nothing ever really has a solution!
It always ends in "I don't know what the solution is, but GUNS AREN'T IT!!!!"

guys.... I'm losing my desire to continue this effort! haha

 

[dredwinggirl13]

*smacks forehead*

Thats about how all the conversations go in my AP gov class. *sigh*

 

[MASTEROFMALICE]

Honey...Darling...Light of my Life, the very minute you learn to "un-invent" the gun I'll be glad to hear all about your total-lack-of-guns-as-a-factor-in-crime solution.

That's not so hard, is it? You only need to find a way to make millions upon millions of firearms worldwide disappear with no chance of ever being built again. Every last one of them. Simple task.

 

[Nightwing]

yeah.
I hate to sound disrespectful to my wife. I'm just venting here.

 

[Deer Hunter]

Ouch.

 

[DDude]

I feel your pain. My wife is Canadian and since I've come into her life she's being educated on the entire concept of gun ownership and our God given rights of self-preservation as freeborn human beings. After three years of marriage I'm making headway. Last week she sent me an email that went like this: "No Trespassing. Violators will be shot. Survivors will be shot again."

 

[Steve499]

You are trying to talk to her as an equal. No offense intended, but she's obviously a little challenged in the logic department, so that may not work out very well. I feel your pain!

Steve

 

[slow944]

I've had this same exact conversation with my wife. I don't know if I want to continue with it either. My wifes father was a barber and he carried a pistol to work when he the days he opened the shop by himself as he had been robbed at knife point. I don't know how you get them to see the big picture because of their blinders. I try to get my wife to go to the deer lease with me with a camera and take pictures of the wildlife that comes to the feeder. All she says is forget it you'll just shoot them. Good luck

 

[igpoobah]

I will never complain about my wife again.
I will never complain about my wife again.
I will never complain about my wife again.
I will never complain about my wife again.
I will never complain about my wife again.



Brother; you've got a long, tedious road ahead of you. I wish you luck.

Have you taken her shooting? A nice little 22 and some fruit can put a smile on anyone's face and change opinions instantly...

 

[Nightwing]

We've been married over 6 years. have a 4 year old. I love my son, but he is truly my leash to an illogical person.
I'm not saying I'm always right... I'm just saying that being unrealistic with your viewpoints isn't very logical! If you want to disagree with me, that's just fine... but please have some facts or some logic behind your viewpoint.
Painful

 

[RobTzu]

Should have had this conversation before you got married. It is most likely symptom of other core worldview differences you have. Guns are the most telling indicator of one's worldview. Have fun getting on the same page on most issues with the kids.

 

[doc2rn]

The X

I used to go through that on a daily basis till I gave her the boot, after 6 months. You can love 'em, but you can't fix 'em.
Every time I got her with one arguement, "should a raped woman be forced to have the rapist's baby?"
Her, "of course not!"
Me, "do you want to be raped?"
Her, "of course not?"
Me, "do you want me to give up the means to protect you?"
Her, "of course not?"
Walk away
Once she came back with "guns should just be outlawed" and I said, "like in England where no-one gets mugged or raped." Her with big smile, "Yeah!" Then I handed her an English national violent crime report.

 

[Pete409]

Nightwing,

It sounds as though your wife doesn't recognize or understand the concept of individual responsibility. Rather, she believes that all problems are group problems and that the solutions necessarily are group solutions.

Therefore, I would inform her that since there are a bunch of people "downtown" who have no cars and have crappy clothes, you intend to sell her car and give the proceeds to the needy who have no car. Further, you intend to give her nice clothes to those who don't have any nice clothes. Naturally, this would also apply to her jewelry and other nice things she has.

If she protests, simply remind her that it is HER belief that everyone should suffer to teach the few "screw-ups" that they shouldn't screw up. Likewise, everyone who has nice "things" should immediately give them up to those who don't have nice things so that the "have nots" won't feel inferior.

Really, you shouldn't have any problem at all in convincing her of the correctness of your decision to give her things away since that is totally consistent with her arguments and viewpoints that she has expressed to you on numerous occasions.

 

[karrotx]

Good stuff.

 

[jakemccoy]

Thank you for providing a real life example of why I'm unfit for marriage. I could never have that amount of patience.

 

[Zundfolge]

Me: But we do have guns!

Well she's wrong, but at least she's not imposing her wrongness on you.

As long as she "allows" guns in the house, I'd drop the argument (oh and if she's not registered to vote, I'd never encourage her to register).

 

[Superpsy]

ay yai yai.

as with most people with this mindset...here's the recipe:
1. give them time.
2. present arguments in the same logical rational way.
3. remark about current events and positive gun related articles.
4. use anecdotal information about positive uses of guns (self-defense etc.). For example, I've had tons of positive conversations with co-workers since the COS church shooting and the citizen guard's role.
5. Talk about interesting research
5. Repeat these steps as necessary.

Good luck!

 

[MDHunter]

My Sympathy...

Hey Nightwing,

Sorry to hear about your talks....and gotta agree with the guy on your other thread, who said just wait til menopause, THAT will be a fun time...

(P.S. - nothing against ladies here, guys can be just as bad. One of my leftist buddies think if someone breaks into his house "if you have to take a beating and give up some property, that's better than shooting someone.")

Yikes.

 

[dredwinggirl13]

I agree with Pete. Parallel the "punish everyone because one person does wrong" idea she has with everday things. Car insurance/Driving privledges and accidents, someone getting laid off/fired at work, etc. Maybe it will make her see just how silly and ineffective that type of punishment is.

 

[mekender]

mine is one of those "i dont like guns" types... she witnessed a gun crime as a young child... so there is a reason... but she has gone from hating guns to reading gun related posts on forums and showing them to me... im hoping that its only about another 6 months to a year before shes putting little holes in paper with me

 

[AJ Dual]

What you also have to recognize is that unless you're unusually blessed, there's often a lot of subtle dominance play and push/pull in a marriage.

She may simply be taking that position to oppose or irritate you. And for all you know, you deserve it. I don't know you, and I obviously didn't witness the conversation, but anyone who has the gun argument with their spouse, think honestly if this is possible:

Nightwing: We were talking about the shootings, and the issue of gun free zones.

Mrs. Nightwing: "Oh God, here he goes, bringing up the guns again, he thinks he's being so 'conversational', but it's just insulting. I think I'll say people just shouldn't have guns to push back at him. And he forgot our anniversary, and I saw him looking at that woman in the skirt at the mall..."

Again, this is all hypothetical, I'm not ripping on you personally. For all I know, she brought it up, or the conversation of the mall and church shootings did indeed come up "naturally". However, for everyone having "the argument", look really hard and objectively at how you're discussing the issue with your spouse. Even if you're right, it does not mean you aren't being pushy, patronizing, or subtly arrogant about it.

I left Mrs. Dual alone on the issue, and while she has zero interest in shooting, or in CCW once we get it here in WI, at least in theory, she has come around, and has even defended being a gun-owning household on some of her "mommy boards" for our area, and gets irritable at soccer mommy bliss-ninny types.

 

[45Broomhandle]

The Other Side Of That Coin...

Luckily for me, my wife is at the other end of the spectrum when it comes to gun control. As soon as my American Rifleman copy arrives, she's got it and is reading "The Armed Citizen" page. Soon we're comparing notes and likening the circumstances we've just read about to our own surroundings. Learning what new, unforseen possibilities might be occuring.

She even takes some of those articles to work to show her co-workers what's happening in real life.

Best regards, ~ ~ ~ 45Broomhandle

One of my wife's hideaways.

 

[LanEvo`]

Your example of a guy holding a gun to your head is probably not the best starting point. Especially if you're dealing with someone who honestly believes that if guns didn't exist there would be no crime.

Try this. This is an actual situation that I faced. You guys are walking along a city street in the early evening (say 7-8 pm) when you are slowly encircled by 3-4 very big guys. None of them have guns (as far as you can tell). But it's clear that they are up to no good. And it's clear that they can hurt one or both of you if they want to.

What about that situation? Wouldn't you rather have a nice 1911 in your waistband? Do you honestly want to go toe-to-toe with these guys with nothing but your fists and maybe some pepper spray?

 

[slow944]

Have her read the " Civilian Self-defence Gun Blog" and let her read about people using their guns for good not evil.

 

[AlaskaErik]

Then she talks about "Remember in school how the teachers would say "Since *Johnny* screwed up in this area, the whole classroom has lost this privilege"(Like..johnny takes too many bathroom breaks and screws around in the halls, so now the whole class will have it's hall pass privileges removed)

Hello! Anyone home?! Criminals have already lost their right to own guns. But they're criminals, so they won't obey that law. In fact, criminals love gun control. It makes their job much safer and easier. Just look at Britain and Australia.

Dude, I feel for you. My wife was born and raised in SoCal and even she understands the need to CCW.