Another AR question - Windham

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ErictheRed

ErictheRed

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Jun 8, 2010
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Location
Southern Maryland
I am looking to pick up a rifle before they are banned here in MD on October 1. I am a total noob when it comes to these modern versions, I have a 30-30 lever, a bolt action and some 22's and that is my entire rifle experience. I live in a shotgun only hunting area so I can't use it for deer but will want it for plinking, varmints and home defense. I will only get to shoot it a few times a year, I'm mostly a pistol and shotgun guy. At the local stores I have seen a couple that look promising but what do I know.

One was a Windham Carbon Fiber. I have done a search and read through the THR discussions on them. It seems to be a nice entry level gun. Why would I not want this model, what are some of the cons?

M&P 15 seems to be a popular choice as well. Is there any reason this gun is better than the Windham, areas where it is worse? If the price was pretty much equal, which of these would you go with as a first AR? Or I am open to any other suggestions, just trying to get information at this point on what things to look for.
 
Not a fan of the carbon AR's but that is mostly personal choice. For the little use you intend, any AR, 10 mags and 1k rounds that fit your budget should be good enough.
 
Not a fan of carbon fiber either, but I have a Windham SRC (Sight Ready Carbine) in good ole aluminum. They are pretty affordable (cause they have no sights), and you can put irons, or a scope or red dot on it easily. Mine is well made, accurate (1.5-2.5" at 100yds), and reliable.
 
Windham's are GTG, but I'd have to agree about the carbon--stick with a conventional aluminum lower unless this is ALL you can get.
 
Think of it this way, the carbon ones have been known to break. Since you can't replace it, you should stick with a normal aluminum one.
 
Interesting, what on them breaks?? And since the only thing on them that is carbon fiber is the Upper and Lower receiver cover, what can you not replace since all other parts are metal??

Jim
 
jim243 said:
Interesting, what on them breaks?? And since the only thing on them that is carbon fiber is the Upper and Lower receiver cover, what can you not replace since all other parts are metal??

Jim
Click to expand...

The ones I saw break, broke at the rear where the buffer tube screws into the lower. You technically can replace it if it does break but you'd have to fill out another 4473 as if you were buying a completely new firearm.
 
They're not receiver covers, They are THE upper and lower receivers. Granted, the barrel extension (and bolt carrier group) handle most of the stress, it is very nice to have some forged aluminum around that stuff.
 
but you'd have to fill out another 4473 as if you were buying a completely new firearm.
Click to expand...

That is true of any lower, unless you buy a 80% complete lower, they do not require a 4473. You can also buy replacement carbon fiber lowers.

Jim
 
The thing is for almost the same money you'd pay for the Windham Carbon Model(or a little bit more) You can get something like a S&W Sport, Spikes, PSA etc. which may not be top tier but still have a much better proven track record.
 
Downeast is right, you have a lot more options than you may know about. At the risk of stepping on toes, if I were you I'd spend July looking through the archives over at ar15.com. By the time August rolls around guns should be even more affordable. If you ask the gang over there what to buy, they'll likely tell you Colt (they'd be right).
 
If you ask the gang over there what to buy, they'll likely tell you Colt (they'd be right).
Click to expand...

I wouldn't give AR15.com the time of day, a bunch of opinionated jerks as far as I can tell, they need to grow up and stop playing mall ninga.

Just my opinion.
Jim
 
While the ar15.com General Discussion can be hard to take, the AR SPECIFIC DISCUSSION contains around 142,000 topics and almost 2 million replies. While I don't belong to that forum, I'll take info where I can find it. They are kinda hung up on the whole "mil-spec" thing though.
 
jim243 said:
I wouldn't give AR15.com the time of day, a bunch of opinionated jerks as far as I can tell, they need to grow up and stop playing mall ninga.

Just my opinion.
Jim
Click to expand...

Yup..... I'd go over to M4Carbine and ask around. There are many members over there who are either instructors or in the business of making and selling AR's and AR parts.

They will tell you exactly what I'll tell you. A Windham is just a regurgitated Bushmaster with an M16 BCG. :)

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 4 Beta
 
I wouldn't get the polymer receivers either. If you're looking at around $800, I'd go with PSA or Spikes. Yeah, a lot of folks sneer but milspec is good and you'll be glad you didn't let yourself fall below that standard. It might take a few months to figure it all out but you won't be sorry you aimed higher than cheap comspec, especially when it comes to receivers, barrel and BCG.
 
Never fails--somebody new asks a reasonable question and it always gets to nothing but people getting into peeing contests about milspec this, colt that.......all we're doing is confusing the poor guy more and not helping at all.

He has a limited time to get his AR, he apparently has a limited selection locally, he asked about 2 specific weapons. Windham carbon or SW MP15.
OP-- Just leave the carbon on the rack (they DO have a questionable record) and get the MP15. Done. You'll have a VERY NICE AR in your price range that's locally available within your time frame and will allow you extra time to accumulate mags and accessories. We always tend to over-complicate things.
 
Go with the M&P. I think a regular Windham would serve you well, but not the carbon model. As others have mentioned, if the lower receiver breaks, you won't be able to replace it. For the usage you cite, the M&P will last you a lifetime and then some. I'd pay $100+ more for any aluminum versus carbon, just for my peace of mind. In your case, unless the carbon windham is a couple hundred in savings, get the M&P.
 
Thank you for the replies and suggested sources of information. I think I will stay away from the carbon. I'm going to research some more and try to figure out what I want. There are so many options out there it is just a little confusing when you first wade in to this pool.
 
By all means feel free to do some reading on those "other" forums, but don't believe EVERYthing you read and be prepared to get your cyberfeelings hurt. They are not near as High Road as it is here. Look at ar15armory.com as well.

Just remember, many who post are soldiers or LE and their lives may depend on their weapon at any time. Hence they rabidly promote "milspec" and "the chart" even though the chart is probably 10 yrs old. A gun that they consider to be a miserable failure would be plenty good enough for the "casual user" like me. Try not to hold it against them too bad.
 
I'm seeing a lot of very low road comments in this thread, while proclaiming to be others. Oh, the irony/hypocrisy.

Anyway...

ErictheRed said:
I am looking to pick up a rifle before they are banned here in MD on October 1. I am a total noob when it comes to these modern versions, I have a 30-30 lever, a bolt action and some 22's and that is my entire rifle experience. I live in a shotgun only hunting area so I can't use it for deer but will want it for plinking, varmints and home defense. I will only get to shoot it a few times a year, I'm mostly a pistol and shotgun guy. At the local stores I have seen a couple that look promising but what do I know.

One was a Windham Carbon Fiber. I have done a search and read through the THR discussions on them. It seems to be a nice entry level gun. Why would I not want this model, what are some of the cons?

M&P 15 seems to be a popular choice as well. Is there any reason this gun is better than the Windham, areas where it is worse? If the price was pretty much equal, which of these would you go with as a first AR? Or I am open to any other suggestions, just trying to get information at this point on what things to look for.
Click to expand...

I would much rather have a S&W M&P 15 than a Windham anything. The S&W M&P 15 is a very good rife.

I suggest www.m4carbine.net (aka M4C) for more serious research and technical information as well as lots of folks with serious real world experience.
 
Windham's are good rifles, but I'd stay away from the carbon.

The M&P 15 has a reputation as a solid, dependable rifle and you could do much worse. Buy an M&P15.

M4c is a great forum, with mostly industry and MIL/LE & some 3gun folks active on there. Given the audience, they tend to side with established brands and they expect noobs there to search the forum and expend some virtual sweat before starting another "Which rifle should I get" thread.

Having said that, there are some extremely knowledgable folks in that forum.

Ar15.com is also another forum, though the members are more civilian.
 
mtrmn said:
Never fails--somebody new asks a reasonable question and it always gets to nothing but people getting into peeing contests about milspec this, colt that.......all we're doing is confusing the poor guy more and not helping at all.

He has a limited time to get his AR, he apparently has a limited selection locally, he asked about 2 specific weapons. Windham carbon or SW MP15.
OP-- Just leave the carbon on the rack (they DO have a questionable record) and get the MP15. Done. You'll have a VERY NICE AR in your price range that's locally available within your time frame and will allow you extra time to accumulate mags and accessories. We always tend to over-complicate things.
Click to expand...

I guess you're singling me out. Sometimes you're right, sometimes we see a new person who just doesn't want to hear the whole story, they only want a quick answer. But I think it's helpful to broaden these types of questions and point out other brands to someone new to ARs yet wants to buy one. That seems to be the case this time judging from Eric's last post.

Sure it's confusing at first but the more good information assimilated, the more likely to make the right choice the first time. If someone is wanting to pick from a lesser pool and there's a better choice in that price range why not share that info, at the risk of complicating the issue?!

Oh, one other complication... I don't know the laws in MD, but as always - make sure the AR you buy is legal where you will be using it.
 
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