Another ASM with Colt Barrel Address

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Here is an enlarged version of the Colt 2nd Gen 2nd Model Dragoon picture above.

Similarities to the ASM 2nd Model Dragoon address include size, serif font, no underline of the small L in SAML, a long line between the W and the Y and complex arrowheads at the ends.

They differ only in that the Colt is read muzzle to cylinder while the ASM is read cylinder to muzzle.

The Colt 3rd Gen is different from the ASM in a number of respects.
 

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Interesting. I see what you mean when he stamping is going left to right as opposed to right to left. But look at the capital letter 'S' in the font. They do look slightly different. The 'S' in the ASM curves more on the top and bottom, whereas on the Colt its almost flat.
 
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Good eye Crawdad1.

I did not notice that.

The Colt 2nd Gen pic is lifted from the internet and the barrel flat is at a greater angle to the camera than in my ASM pic.

Could the apparent flatness be due that?

Taken to the extreme, a curved object like a round plate, viewed edgewise would be seen as flat.

At an intermediate angle, it would appear flattened into an oval.

Though a different barrel address on a different Colt 2nd Gen. model, the "S" on Skinny 1950's 1862 Pocket Police looks as curved as those on the ASM.

We need someone out there with a 2nd Gen. 2nd Model Dragoon to take a straight on pic of the barrel address to be sure.

Any takers???
 
I agree Ephraim, while looking at Skinny's '62 Police I noted that curvature of the 'S'. So that pretty much shot my theory down the tubes. But the big difference, as you pointer out, is the stamping is reversed between the Colt and the ASM.
 
There are several of those 1,850 gold plated Colt Heritage Walkers and F series Walkers on GB. I checked the barrel roll marks carefully against my two Colt-marked civie Walker ASMs, running left to right, cylinder to muzzle. The marks (less the gold plate and Ranger Co. marks) and finish are identical, as are the cylinder roll marks, right down to the differences in the caps of the "Dragoons" vs. original Walkers. And, no they are decidely not Texas Rangers...Ormsby had no idea what Rangers looked like and made the engravings based on Army uniforms of the era coupled with the "Comanche Buffalo Hunt" painting.

Also, with the exception of the ASM cylinder proof mark, the cylinder engravings are identical. The U.S. over 1847 mark on the right side of the barrel lug is identical in size and placement on the Colt product and the ASM, closely following that of the original Walkers, with the top of the 1847 stamping partially obscured by the wedge screw. The Uberti Walkers have the U.S. over 1847 stamped much higher on the barrel lug. I'll try to post pics.

But you know... the real proof in the pudding MIGHT be the rifling differences between the Colt products and the ASMs. I believe the original Colts and 2nd/3rd gens all had gain twist rifling. At least that is the prevailing thought over on the Colt forum, while there are some dissenters. Since I dont own 2nd/3rd gens I cant testify to this myself and to tell you the truth Im not sure I can tell on my ASMs. But what if the ASMs actually have gain twist rifling, too?? Quien sabe? Down the rabbit hole we go...yey again.

I again say, Dr. Davis might have all the right answers. Anyone know how to reach him?
 
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For sxxts and giggle I went out to the Deer Creek Products web site mentioned in one of those old cascity threads and low and behold they purport to sell brand new ASM new model Armys and 1860 Armys and ASM parts, including the elusive Reb .44 on the 1851 frame with non rebated cylinder and flat water table frame. I am going to contact as soon as I can to see how they are getting products from a company that has supposedly been gone since around 2000.
 
Couldn't we assume ( that word 'ASSUME" always dangerous) then that ASM simply developed their own stamp then finished the barrels and marked them. On the ASM marked revolvers is there any other 'Colt' markings such as the frame stamps?
 
C daddie
I think it is common for the factory to add pretty much marks the importer wants. Cabelas just buys directly from the importer or themselves and add nothing and you get a Pietta or Uberti box. Other outfits like Cimmaron order special markings and you get a Cimmaron box. For instance my 3rd ASM Walker is a ltd. edition of perhaps 500-1000 pieces has no ASM or Colt marks, only the Proof mark on the cylinder, and the First Texas Mounted Volunteer marks as ordered by Lt. Colonel R.L. Whittington, USAR Retired for this special factory run in 1981, to accompany his seminal book on the history of the Whitneyville Walker.

Also, there are no Colts Patent marks on the frame of my ASM Walkers. They weren't there on the originals, but you sometimes see them on repros . I cant recall when those stamps were used by Colt on the Dragoon frames, but they wouldnt be terribly difficult to reproduce.
I called Deer Creek, it was constantly busy...not a good sign. Their website is active and I inputed some questions.
 
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Crawdad1 - The only other Colt markings that I have found on my ASM's are:

1. "MODEL U.S.M.R." 2nd line (Blank SN Space) 3rd line "COLT'S PATENT" as part of the cylinder engraving on my new 2nd Model Dragoon.

2. "COLT'S PATENT No." (Blank SN Space) 2nd line "PAT SEPT. 10th 1850" cylinder marking on my loose ASM 1860 .44 cylinder.

3. "COLT'S PATENT No." (Blank SN Space) on the cylinder of my ASM 1862 Pocket Navy.

Online, I have seen pictures of other ASM's with similarly marked "COLT'S PATENT No." (Blank SN Space) cylinders.

None of them that I have or that I have seen, have Colt frame markings.
 
That post from Dr. Davis back in 2010 is pretty interesting, particularly about all his research on ASM being lost,
Click to expand...

In that research that he lost I'm guess that is where all our answers are to all our questions.
 
Elhombre, if you look at the actual revolver pictured on their (Deer Creek) web site it had Pietta markings on it but they say it's an ASM in their description. I don't get it. :confused:
 
C daddie
Ive been calling Deer Creek all day long...always busy. If they dont answer the phone or respond to my online inquiry via the still functional website I guess they are
OOB.
I' ll check out the pic again there.

I am working up an enail to Dr. Davis that doesnt make me sound like a dumbass.

BTW, if folks didnt know. Colts barrel marks ran left to right, cylinder to muzzle on the original Walkers and the 1st model Dragoons I've found online. During production of the 2nd model Dragoon the barrel stamp read left to righr muzzle to cylinder. From then on I believe that was the way barrel marks were handled.
 
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Ephraim, I've looked through my limited library and found zero information that could possibly shed additional light on these ASM revolvers stamped with Colt markings. All I found was names being mentioned that include Val Forgett, Lou and Anthony Imperato, Aldo Uberti, Angelo Buffoli and that's pretty much it, nothing else.
 
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Email sent to Dr. Davis.

Deer Creek Products replied to my enquiry. The ASMs they have are New Old Stock. They bought out all the revolvers and ASM parts when ASM went out of business. And yes those pics do seem to be Traditions/Piettas. T The odd duck Reb .44 brasser Navy is definitely a Traditions/Pietta. The little .31 cal brasser Remington seems reasonably priced don't ya think?
 
Definitely a good price on that Remington. But did you notice that they're listing Palmetto revolvers also. I haven't heard that name for awhile.
 
Elhombre, No experience with Palmetto revolvers. They built a beautiful revolver but as far as how good their guts are or how good a shooter they are, I have no experience. Fingers? Driftwood?

Any news from Dr. Davis? :)
 
Here is another weird one. I have an 1851 Colt reproduction. On top of the barrel it is marked Euroams of America. On the right side next the rammer the barrel is marked ASM Black Powder only. From what I have always read was that ASP became Euroarms. It wouldn't seem logical to me to sell your competitors product. I realize that Euromarms of America is just an importing and distribution company but it still seems odd to me. Is there something I am missing here? BTW is is a very nice revolver with CCH frame and tight lockup. I also have another one that is marked ASM but non of the parts will interchange between the two revolvers. The quality of this revolver is not as good as the first one, but is by means a junker. I guess the Italians love a mystery.
 
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