Another ASM with Colt Barrel Address

[Ephraim Kibbey]

LonesomePigeon - You are right and maybe also the bottom of the "A" as well.

On my ASM 1851 .44, the small underlined "L" looks smaller and higher off the bottom of the "M" next to it compared with the F series 2nd. Gen 1851.

That would mean the stamps were different for these two!!!

Sadly my 66 year old eyes need bifocals and its always a challenge to get the lenses at the best angle to the screen.

It still could be that ASM got SOME stamped F series 2nd Gen. barrels back from Iver Johnson when it was sold by Imperato along with some unstamped ones and, after using up the stamped ones, developed their own stamp for the others.

I will just have to buy every stamped ASM I can find out there and continue comparing them to Colts.

Ah, a QUEST!

 

[LonesomePigeon]

"It still could be that ASM got SOME stamped F series 2nd Gen. barrels back from Iver Johnson when it was sold by Imperato along with some unstamped ones and, after using up the stamped ones, developed their own stamp for the others."

I agree this is a possibility.

 

[Crawdad1]

Regardless Ephraim, that ASM you bought is frickin beautiful!!! It looks like a silver backstrap and trigger guard also.

 

[elhombreconnonombre]

I guess this may be a mystery for the ages pards. No response from Dr. Davis.
Ronnie

 

[elhombreconnonombre]

While perusing the Colt Forum I found this. Read post #7.
http://www.coltforum.com/forums/col...05268-question-about-2nd-gen-colt-walker.html

 

[Crawdad1]

I knew that the frames were built here with the old Iver Johnson equipment purchased and moved by Lou Imperato who was to shortly take over the whole show from Val Forgett. But I strongly disagree with the one posted who said only buy originals, the Second Generation 'C' Series were so close to the originals that they were stamped under the barrel with a identifying mark usually a small letter I believe so people wouldn't pass them off as originals.

 

[Ephraim Kibbey]

elhombreconnonombre - that is a GREAT thread!!! Thank you.

Crawdad1 - Thanks! Yes, they are GERMAN silvered.

Here are the 1997 EMF catalog pages for the Hartford ASM's (there are two 1851 Hartfords on GB now: )

 

[Crawdad1]

Ephraim, are you going to complete your collection with these Hartford ASM models?

 

[elhombreconnonombre]

Well there's a gun show out in Dripping Springs this weekend. I may see if I can find a Colt marked ASM among the plastic and aluminum stuff.

 

[Ephraim Kibbey]

Not at the moment Crawdad1, these addressed ASM's all showed up at once and this last one burnt up the last of my discretionary cash.

My NMA is an EMF Hartford but it is 2009 and was made by Pietta. Its a really nice shooter.

Good Hunting elhombreconnonombre!

 

[LonesomePigeon]

The two Hartford models on gunbroker now are Pietta, not ASM. I wonder if the Pietta Hartford line is supposed to be interchangeable with original Colt parts like the ASM Hartford line is?

Does anybody know what year ASM and Pietta introduced their Hartford lines?

 

[Crawdad1]

All the Second and Third generation Colt's screws are standard thread, Pietta is metric.

 

[Ephraim Kibbey]

The 1989 EMF catalog does not have any Hartford models listed.

The 1990 EMF catalog lists the Hartford 1873 Colt cartridge reproduction so my guess is that is ASM's starting date. None of the BP revolvers is listed as Hartford at that date.

The 1997 EMF catalog lists the models seen in the pictures above as well as the 1873's.

I do not have the intervening EMF catalogs but would guess the models were added one or two a year.

I do not have any later catalogs but, since ASM ceased to exist as a BP revolver maker in 2000, I guess those models ceased with it. The cartridge 1873 company that formed out of ASM's ashes may have continued selling those reproductions under the same or a different name.

The consecutive SN pair of EMF/Pietta 1851's on GB now are date coded "CF" for 2010 so EMF switched to Pietta sometime during the first decade of the new millennium.

 

[elhombreconnonombre]

I sent Dr. Davis another email at a different email address I found. I hope he is still with us and the museum in Claremore, OK is still intact. By my calculations he should be in his 80s now.

 

[Ephraim Kibbey]

elhombreconnonombre - For an update on Dr. Davis, see post #60 in this thread:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=788834&page=3

 

[elhombreconnonombre]

The Saxxett Gun Show in Dripping Springs, Hays County, Tx was a dissappointnent...only a third of the size when it was held at the Travis County Expo Center, before the County commissioners banned gun shows. The guys that had great selections of ml repros just don't come down from N. Texas, anymore due to the very reduced attendance. I only found one cap lock CVA Kentucky rifle, and a Pedersoli "Quigley" Sharps.

 

[Ephraim Kibbey]

An addressed ASM Walker just got away on GB.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=523362976

 

[elhombreconnonombre]

Nice piece with barrel roll marks nearly identical to a 2nd gen Walker (see pic of Heritage Walker). I've seen more ASM Walkers with "Coltish" marks than any other Colt models.

 

[Ephraim Kibbey]

elhombreconnonombre - That looks the same right down to the period after the word "ADDRESS" and the lack of the underline of the small "L."

Does the date code look like "AL" (1983) to you?

 

[elhombreconnonombre]

Yep, but note that while very similar, the Colt barrel marks on the ASM and 2nd gen Walkers are not like those of an original Walker.

I cant really make out the date code.

 

[LonesomePigeon]

Here is a Pietta 1851 Navy .36cal with a COLT'S PATENT cylinder, imported by Navy Arms with a date code of AP for 1986:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=523644222

In the listing the seller says it originally came in a Navy Arms cased set, here:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=523640028

This is the first I've heard of a Pietta with Colt markings.

 

[Crawdad1]

A Colt would have the serial number of the revolver stamped on the cylinder. More proof that they just stamped the Colt markings on the barrel, Colt be damned. Doesn't take much to produce a stamp. Can't get rid of those 'Proof' marks though that are required if built overseas.

 

[LonesomePigeon]

I just got an Armi San Marco 1847 Walker with COLT markings on the barrel and cylinder. It also says Richland Arms Co. Blissfield, Michigan on the side of the barrel and A.S.M - BLACK POWDER ONLY MADE IN ITALY on the bottom of the barrel. Additional markings are a proofmark on the cylinder and the standard proofs, datecode and serial number on the bottom of the frame.

Here are some photos:










And here is a target from my first outing with it.

 

[Ephraim Kibbey]

I think that you got him. He will definitely not be getting up.

Nice shooting!

My date code "AL" (1983) ASM Full Fluted 1860 is a "Richland Arms Co." import as well.

I think Willie Sutton said his Colt addressed ASM was too.

I can't see a date code on the side of your frame, is it in front of the trigger guard?

 

[LonesomePigeon]

Thanks! It's a blast(literally) to shoot and attracted a lot of attention at the range. There was a family there with kids, parents and grandparents and I heard the kids say they want to shoot a gun like that one.

Yes, here is the datecode and other markings.