Another Home Defense Q

[Black Knight]

I would recommend a couple of choices. First I would consider a good quality short barrel (18 - 20 inch) 20 gauge pump shotgun. While it may not be the ideal for doing a search, if you are defending a room from an intruder it is difficult to beat. In order to be effective as a search weapon you need to completely understand its capablities and limitations. Second, for a handgun I would not rule out a good quality used .38 Special with a 3 or 4 inch barrel. It may not be what some would say is the best (45 ACP vs. 357 MAG), but the recoil is quite mild so a person with little experience should have little problems with it. There are a few bad guys that I know of that would not want to be shot with one, especially with today's ammunition.

 

[jad0110]

Echoing Black Knight's post, the first gun I grab from my bedside Gunvault (I have an 18 mo old son) is a S&W 686 Plus loaded with the Remmington 38+P Lead SemiWadcutter Hollowpoints (aka, the "FBI Load"). Very good penetration with reliable expansion, and very low recoil in the heavy 686 makes for quick, easy follow-up shots. Don't understimate a good 38 Special with the right ammo. Success in a gunfight isn't about energy transfer or caliber. Mindset (software) is far more crucial. As someone else suggested, everyone should at least run through different scenarios in their mind, over and over. As for the gun, as long as the ammo achieves sufficient penetration (I go by the FBI's 12" minimum), is reliable and points naturally you should be good to go. Unless you have money coming out of your ears, be sure to check ammo prices. That can make a HUGE difference in how much you shoot. 9mm, 40 S&W and 38 Special are typically the least expensive center-fire rounds. 45 ACP and 357 Mag get a bit expensive, and 10 mm, 44 Mag and 45 Colt are "reloaders cartridges" for most of us regular folk due to their high cost.

My 686 may be the first gun I grab when I hear a bump in the night, but if I have time I'll get my 12 ga Mossie 590 from the closet, loaded with Federal Tacticle 2 3/4" 00 buckshot. Nothing stops badguys quite like 9 .33 caliber pellets hitting at nearly the same moment. Gives me a nice warm fuzzy to know that it is nearby .

BTW, you might want to read this Box 'O Truth article about 12 gauge penetration. Even with 00 buckshot, overpenetration is less of a concern than most pistol rounds.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm








And for real God forbid, hurricane Katrine feces-hits-the-air circulation device moments, I have this in my safe loaded with 7.62 x 39 mm 122 grain JHPs:

 

[ahol457]

Home Defense 1 shot stop!

I have never shot anyone with the following, but I have shot a railroad tie from 10 ft and removed about 8" of it's length with a single shot. A shot to upper torso or head.............hard to get happy after that.

12 gauge 3" magnum 00 buckshot. 15,.33cal at once. Very bad for BG.

 

[Zach S]

I would recommend a couple of choices. First I would consider a good quality short barrel (18 - 20 inch) 20 gauge pump shotgun.

I dont like 20 gauge pumpguns. Their lighter weight means as much recoil, if not more recoil, than a 12 gauge with low-recoil 00 buck. Low-recoil rounds arent available for the 20 guage.

Compared to a 20 gauge pump, my 12 guage kicks less with the low-recoil buck, felt about the same with full-power buck.

But to be fair, my 12 guage is a 20" 590 with a side-saddle and surefire forend, it weighs quite a bit more than that KISS 20 gauge.

 

[BOOM-BOOM]

I've just read all these suggestions. And to be honest I'm very surprised that for HD. no one has mentioned the Taurus JUDGE.....

You have a nice wheel gun easy to shoot that can shoot 410 shot-gun shells or 45LC....

Sounds to me like the perfect Home defence weapon for man/woman.. You could even load everyother round 410..45..410..45..410..

At least its worth thinking about...........

 

[Zach S]

While .410 is an excellant for pest control, its not my ideal home defense caliber.

 

[BlindJustice]

Foer Millel3

For Home Defense some are of the school of selecting a load for the
cartridge which is sub-sonic - Speed of sound at Sea Level is approx. 1120 FPS

A 9MM load developed in recent years is a quality JHP weighing 147 gr. loaded to 1,075 FPS

.357 Magnum - utilizes slower burning powder which burns to create higher pressures, many times the velocity cited for a full power load will be with a 6"
Barrel With a 4" Bbl. and one of the aforementioned full power loads the powder doesn't have enough time to burn before the bullet leaves the chamber - so besides the sonic boom, you also have a big muzle flash as well as more recoil to recover from while you're waiting for your eyes to becoame
un-temporarily blinded. So, a .357 Mag full power load may be best for in the field but use of .38 SPecial +P at 1000 FPS is perhaps a better choice.

.357 SIg - a necked down .40 S&W does have the velocity of .357 Mag but the same attendant problems of the sonic boom - and many remark for some reason it is very LOUD and people notice this at the range.

The .40 S&W was developed for a platform and magazine length the same
approx. as existing 9mm platforms. .40 cal. bullets in 135 gr. 155 gr. 165 gr. are some popular bullet weights and they are usually found loaded sub sonic

Perhaps you could look at platforms with the .40 S&W option an example would be a CZ 75B - various models 10 or more rounds with a Double Action first shot / Single Action followup shots.

I have a 1911 .45 ACP full size 5" Barrel length
but it is Single Action only and with no warning in the middle of the
night, I'd go with a different option than working the safety etc.

I also have a S&W 625 5" Bbl. .45 ACP very easy to
shoot repeat shots. at the other end of the scale on the smallest
S&W J frame I have a Model 60 3" Bbl. .357 Mag. 5 shot cylinder,
but only shoot .38 Special +P in it for manageable recoil but have the option if all I had was .357 Mag. ammo.

My least favorite gun is a medium frame S&W 686P 7 shot cyl. with a
4" Barrel - too much muzzle flash, harder to get back on target etc. I wish it had a 6" Bbl.

Hope my experience helps

 

[MikePGS]

Hello Millel, and welcome to the forum.

A 357 sig is a .40 caliber necked down to a 9mm so that you can cram more powder into the case and reach velocities similar to a .357 magnum in an automatic. While it is still a 125 grain bullet travelling at breakneck speeds, it doesn't quite add up to the velocities of a .357 magnum, usually trailing it by a 100 fps or so, and the gap just widens when you use heavier ammunition. By many accounts it is a great stopper, but I think many people have been trying to steer you away from it because it's not that great of a choice for a beginner. While it is a good round, the recoil and muzzle flash might be a bit much until your more experienced. That being said, you could buy a Glock or Sig in .40 caliber (or an XD, or S&W M&P and so on) and get a replacement .357 sig barrel to give you the option of using either of these rounds. But as many people have already said, there are far better options if your going to be using it for home defense. The .223 semi-auto, 20 or 12 gauge shotgun, .40 caliber or 9mm carbine and many other weapons are probably better suited for a purely HD situation. If your heart is set on a 357 sig though, by all means get one, just make sure you and the wife are comfortable with such a pistol (ie rent one from the range and such) before purchasing one.

 

[BOOM-BOOM]

Well zach,, during a home invasion the BG will most likely be no ,more the 4 or 5 feet from you...I don't know about you But at 5 feet I sure the hell wouldn't want a face or belly full of a 410 filled with anything, then a 45 following it.. think again about the Judge

 

[millele3]

RE: Blindjustice - THANKS - That is EXACTLY what I was looking for, a straight-forward knowledgeable analysis

 

[millele3]

Thanks Mike PGS - Many have been talking about a 12 gauge shotgun - I already have a Remington 870 Express pump action 12 ga. I want a hand gun. I find the L-O-N-G shotgun unwieldy in close quarters.

 

[millele3]

Thanks to Blindjustice, I am looking at CZ. I looked at the CZ 75B and it is a nice firearm. I did see they also have a .45 auto (CZ 97B) - I may be on to something!

http://www.czub.cz/index.php?p=32&idp=1&ids=3&idz=15&lang=en

 

[macadore]

Well zach,, during a home invasion the BG will most likely be no ,more the 4 or 5 feet from you...I don't know about you But at 5 feet I sure the hell wouldn't want a face or belly full of a 410 filled with anything

That would certainly mess up someone’s shirt, but the shot may not penetrate enough to do any serious damage. Have you ever patterned one of these? From 5 feet you will have a tire shaped pattern with a large hole in the middle. If you are lucky, you can put out someone’s eye. Otherwise, you are facing a seriously agitated assailant.

In a self defense, the minimum criterion is a round that will completely penetrate the body from any angel. The 410 from a rifled handgun barrel will not consistently do that. Some of these inconsiderate SOBs don’t stand up straight and give you a clean frontal shot.

I looked at the CZ 75B and it is a nice firearm.

Excellent choice.

 

[MikePGS]

If your looking at a CZ might I point out that there is a group buy going on in this forum?
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=360707

 

[RustyShackelford]

DA only revolvers, .357sig DA only pistols...

I'd asked your NRA trained wife if she can load/take-apart/put together/fire a DA only type semi auto pistol. She may not have the hand strength to shoot a pistol and/or operate the controls safely or under stress.

If she has problems you may want to consider a DA only Ruger SP-101 .357magnum snub(with .38spl +P or +P+ loads). Another well made, safe revolver for protection use would be the S&W model 642 or 638. The 638 is a DA/SA .38spl revolver but has a hammer shroud, . These J-frame .38spl Smiths can take +P or +P+ rounds too.

If you want a DA only semi auto pistol and have the $$$ then look into a new HK P-30/P-2000 LEM model in .357sig or .40S&W. These well made pistols have ambi controls and a rail for lights/lasers. The .357sig has great power and is in use with many local/state/federal law enforcement agencies.
The SIGsauer P-229R DAK or P-239 DAK would be good picks. They are excellent and can provide years of service with proper care.

To close, whatever you select make sure you clean/oil your weapon(s), check the mags/ammo often for dust/dirt(that can cause major problems, ) and train often.
Rusty
www.gunsamerica.com www.sigsauer.com www.HK-USA.com

 

[macadore]

If your looking at a CZ might I point out that there is a group buy going on in this forum?

What is a group buy and how does it work?

 

[conw]

Just a quick point, strategy for HD is more important than specific weapon choice. Shotguns work fine if you aren't dealing with multiple attackers as you "clear your house."

The safest way to sit out a home invasion is in your bedroom, gun pointed at door, waiting for the cavalry. There's no better gun for that than a shotgun.

If you have 6 kids and can't do that that's one thing, but consider your strategy and house layout in selecting your gun. If you really can't afford to wait it out, a very short bullpup/carbine or pistol is a good choice to clear the house. But be sure to practice and do dry runs.

 

[WVMountainBoy]

The last word in home defense is 12 gauge. I have a Michael's Mauser coach gun loaded with 2.75 00 now, I understand that you asked about handguns and ranting about a shotgun may fall on deaf ears. I read that you want a semi in a defense caliber...my recommendation is a sturdy all steel, major production weapon (beretta, smith, colt) in 10mm, 40 S&W, or .45ACP

 

[Don Lu]

Ive got an astra A-75..They are hard to find but not expesive if you do find it. It shoots the 40 S&W but its a heavy gun so that the reciol is very managable. You may wanna look at something heavy in .40 for HD. not sure if thats the CZ as Ive never fired one... I agree w/ a couple of others who said the .357 will overpenetrate, recoil may be unmanagable for you wife if she in not seasoned the flash and noise is rediculous indoors...if you do decide on a .357...you may wannaload it w/ .38+p for indoors.