Another Incipient Reloader

[Mr. Zorg]

I'm another member here planning to start reloading, primarily rifle cartridges, as a hobby extension that appeals to my analytical nature. Just rifle ammo for hunting, no competition with anyone other than myself vs factory produced ammunition. I have discussed with SWMBO and not only received approval, but interest on her part to give me a set of reloading equipment at some near future gift occasion (birthday, Christmas, just because ???).

I'm not looking to compete with anyone or anything other than myself vs available factory ammunition. I've acquired a number rifles chambered in a less beaten path in the USA along with a few more mainstream ones.

Seeing all the assistance and advice given to other new and not quite yet reloaders here, I figured this is the best place for me to benefit from some of this in the direction I'm starting out in.

The next NRA Metallic Reloading Class in my area is scheduled in October. I plan to participate in that. I've picked up several preowned reloading manuals from eBay and found a few on the internet in pdf form. So I'm getting some non-interactive academic grounding in the subject. My only prior reloading experience was back in the mid-1980's with a preowned Lee Loader making practice .38 Special range fodder for my then-new and new to me S&W Model 13 when the absolute value of my discretionary funds was extremely low vs this stage in my life. But I have no true bench mounted reloading press experience with a powder scale instead of a scoop. I have hands-on lab experience in petroleum laboratories as well as academic laboratory experience.

With that background, here's how my equipment thoughts are currently framed. I like the turret press concept & functionality as once I find a specific customized load I like tailored to one of the firearms I own, I can leave that die set in its place in the turret. I can even buy additional turrets and die sets to expand on this conceptually. I can add handgun cartridge dies to make my own range ammo in times like we're currently experiencing as welland leave them set up in turret positions.

I don't ever see a progressive reloading system in my future.

I don't see a lot of recommendations for Lyman equipment, in general relative to many other brands (such as Lee for example). I've been most interested in the Lyman 8 hole turret press kit that includes a more advanced electronic scale - finding one of these kits in stock is currently proving challenging (no surprise).

https://www.lymanproducts.com/lyman-ultimate-reloading-system

Most reviews I've found are more positive than negative for that Lyman equipment. I don't care about label cachet. Pricing that turret press and scale together a la carte about equals the cost of the kit from a retailer other than the manufacturer so I figure that's a good deal in general for the knickknacks that are included in the kit besides the two main (as I see it) kit components.

I'm not averse to putting together an odds & ends set of good quality good condition preowned reloading equipment over time either.

Thoughts, comments, etc.- ???

 

[jmorris]

First off, don’t let me talk you out of it.

For “hunting” ammunition the round count is going to be quite small depending on your game. I know folks that have deer hunted for 5 years or more on a box of 20.

That said, what are you looking to get out of the hobby?

I suppose before I was as analytical as I am now, I did acquire a few turret presses.

Conceptually, they do sound great, in function, to me, they don’t work as well as other choices.

If expediting the operations is the goal, they are not that good because they require the same number of strokes as a single stage to complete a single round.

Keeping dies “set”? That can be done with bushings, on a number of presses and with just locking nuts on the co-ax. They can be changed very quickly, faster that a turret and at less cost. Not to mention the dies can be stored in their original containers.



All without the flex that is involved with having the mounting point of a rotary turret so far behind where the force is imparted.

If you are dead set on a Lyman turret, send me a PM, I have one, with two turrets, I could get you set up with for much less than new.

 

[FROGO207]

Over time a mix of new and used items specific to your wants would probably serve you best. You might want to wait until at least the first of the year to purchase anything due to supply problems driving up ccosts. Unless you find a great deal.

 

[Mr. Zorg]

First off, don’t let me talk you out of it.

For “hunting” ammunition the round count is going to be quite small depending on your game. I know folks that have deer hunted for 5 years or more on a box of 20.

That said, what are you looking to get out of the hobby?

I suppose before I was as analytical as I am now, I did acquire a few turret presses.

Conceptually, they do sound great, in function, to me, they don’t work as well as other choices.

If expediting the operations is the goal, they are not that good because they require the same number of strokes as a single stage to complete a single round.

Keeping dies “set”? That can be done with bushings, on a number of presses and with just locking nuts on the co-ax. They can be changed very quickly, faster that a turret and at less cost. Not to mention the dies can be stored in their original containers.



All without the flex that is involved with having the mounting point of a rotary turret so far behind where the force is imparted.

If you are dead set on a Lyman turret, send me a PM, I have one, with two turrets, I could get you set up with for much less than new.

I'm not currently "dead set" on any brand (not interested in brand cachet in my OP). If I was dead set, I wouldn't be asking for thoughts & opinions. I really don't see a progressive loader ever in my future as mentioned in my OP, that's about all I can classify as being dead-set from my interests.

My goal is to enjoy producing artisanal customized ammunition primarily for my hunting rifles vs factory fodder. One example: I have some rifles in 7X64mm Brenneke, others in .30-06 Springfield, another in 7mm-08, some .243 Winchester, 9.3X62mm, .338-06 and a .270 Winchester currently in my hunting rifle harem for specifics. Some HD/PD pieces as well as some milsurps and vintage pieces, both long guns and handguns, in a variety of mainstream and more obscure for the USA cartidges. More generalized in my OP: some more mainstream and some more obscure / limited for factory ammunition.

I'm retired and have recently resumed game hunting, as now I have quite a bit of unstructured time, plus greater discretionary funds available vs my Lee Loader days mentioned in my OP.

My analytical background background includes close to 30 years in the petroleum and petrochemical industries in both blue collar and white collar positions. Academically I hold an AA in Chemistry and BS in Chemical Engineering, worked my way through school primarily in blue and bleached blue collar positions. Long history of performance reviews with high ratings in dimensions such as critical thinking plus way outside average formal neuropsychatric testing scores in analytical talents and reasoning. The largest project I worked on was, at the time, the largest construction project in North America with a peak labor force of 10K personnel and came in at $3.9 billion when all was said and done, on the owner / operating company side (Marathon, Fluor worked for us).

https://www.fluor.com/projects/marathon-refinery-engineering-construction

Hope that helps with enough detail level to better clarify.

I've been quietly acquiring brass and bullets for a while, made the leap to locally available primers and according to the system at Academy Sports and Outdoors the last 1 lb container of H4350 this side of Dallas and Houston, to start with. If I make an online order, Winchester StaBALL 6.5 powder and Reloder 23 as next choices.

If you're offering some equipment not currently posted in the Classifieds here, feel free to send me details by PM. The devil is always in the details. Value is what I like to discover in my endeavors, which of course always has some subjective as well as objective elements.

 

[cfullgraf]

Lyman equipment is good although it is not as popular as the other guys.

In my opinion, turret presses are not really as useful as the media plays them to be. I feel it would be better to get a good single stage press and use the money saved from not buying a turret press to buy other reloading tools.

Single stage presses are a good place to start reloading. They may be all you need but in the future you feel you need to move on to a progressive press, a single stage press is handy to have on your bench for some special, low volume tasks.

Most dies come with a lock ring that can be locked to the die so that the die adjustment is not changed once set. So, when moving to the next reloading step, you remove the die your are finished with and install the die for the next operation.

Any way, reloading is a hobby for me unto itself. I hope you find you enjoy it wells. You can make some fine ammunition reloading it yourself.

 

[MCFLYFYTER]

I agree with the single stage press recommendation. If anything, I'd rather have a dedicated powder measure for each cartridge. I spend 10 times longer dialing powder than swapping dies.

If I were to load 20 rounds of 8 different cartridges in a sitting a turret might make sense, but otherwise it is single or progressive for me.

 

[Mr. Zorg]

Thanks for your contributions and input. The Lyman kit I'm interested in is a single stage press, with a turret. I don't ever see me owning, needing, or wanting a progressive reloading system between now and when my number's up.

I know about design of experiment as well as conducting experiments and analyzing the results with attention to the 80/20 rule. Reloading will be a nice personal small scale way for me to keep doing that where I'll own all the pieces. I'm deeply cultured in personal and greater environment safety discipline and working with hazardous materials. One of the refining processes I have both lab and macro experience with is Alkylation using concentrated hydrofluoric acid as the catalyst, turning LPGs into high octane clean burning gasoline components as an example. An overview:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alkylation_unit#Hydrofluoric_acid

https://www.e-education.psu.edu/fsc432/content/uop-hf-alkylation-process

Finding and refining nodes in specific rifles sounds really enjoyable to me. I've picked up a preowned 2 die set for 7X64mm Brenneke as that's a cartridge it's difficult to find factory ammunition for in the USA. It holds a particular interest for me with the standard barrel rifling twist rate for this cartridge is 1:8.66 inches, faster than typical production. 280 Remington and 7mm Magnum rifles. Plus I'm staying away from firing magnum rifle cartridges and all shotgun rounds for several years at a minimum.

Money for a press vs money for knicknacks isn't an issue of competition for the same funds in my case.

 

[Mr. Zorg]

This kit has a single stage press without a turret. My main dislike of this kit is the volume based powder measurement system vs the high end scale system included in the kit with the single stage press that has a turret - and it's out of stock as well (unsurprisingly).

https://www.lymanproducts.com/brands/lyman/presses-kits/brass-smith-victory-press

Maybe a set of equipment that's a hodgepodge of brands purchased individually, and preowned, is the better approach in the general current market availability of reloading systems and reloading components. I'm absolutely not interested in using a mallet with a Lee Loader with volume based powder dippers again. But also, I'm not in any immediate hurry between now and say Christmas. Plus what the world of consumer products will look like in another six months is anybody's guess at this point.

 

[lordpaxman]

I started out life on a RCBS Rock Chucker Jr single stage press. It’s not a turret, but I was just loading for rifle at the time and for low volume/hunting reloading, unscrewing one die and screwing the next one in is less than a minute operation. That pales in comparison from dispensing powder which took me the longest time. The lock rings on the dies, once set, don’t move and keep all the same setup adjustments you’ve made.
If you’re set on a turret press, by all means get one, but you may want to re-evaluate the rationale for one. Good luck!

 

[mmb617]

I agree with the single stage press recommendation. If anything, I'd rather have a dedicated powder measure for each cartridge. I spend 10 times longer dialing powder than swapping dies.

I only load 3 calibers so a separate powder measure for each made sense to me. And I never have to reset my dies as they are locked in place in their respective bushings.

At one time I thought a turret might be better than my single stage but the flex issue, at least in my mind, kept me away. Now that I have the dies all out on top of the bench swapping them out is super easy.

 

[entropy]

Hunting ammo is the perfect application of an analytical mind in reloading. (As is precision competition ammo, which you are not interested in.) I started metallic reloading to develop accurate hunting ammo for a rifle that none of the factory ammo I tried for it was acceptable. (To me.)
First, equipment selection; I won't press (pun intended) my favorite brands here, just general recommendations. Get a single stage press. There is no reason to consider a progressive for your intended application. I will recommend one branded item, only because no one else makes it. Others have shown you pic of powder measures. Skip them. For absolute precision in reloading, you cannot do better than a set of Lee Dippers, and a good scale. You select the dipper that is just below the desired charge, from the included chart, then scoop up one full scoop, dump in the pan, then scoop up another and 'sprinkle' it into the pan, like salt, until the scale balances at your set weight. Precise, as well as inexpensive and easy. You'll find that most reloaders have a hodgepodge of brands of equipment, due to many factors like availability, application, exclusivity, (As in the Lee Dippers example; I think Lyman made something similar years ago, but Lee only does now.), and price.
Next, after you've purchased your equipment, time for component selection. Here again, I'm sure you will do plenty of research. We all have our favorite components here, as do gun writers. Since you already have been doing some purchasing of bullets and powder, you have obviously done some research. Be warned, it doesn't stop, even once you've decided on 'the' load for each firearm. Component shortages do happen, and it's always good to have a few options on tap. Find some loads that use Federal primers, for instance, because these always seem to be available, even when the shelves are empty of other brands. Your favorite powder will eventually be hard to get a hold of locally, count on it. Stock up, and/or find other powders that will work. (us analytical types will often try to cross-reference our powder selections-find powders that can be used in as many of our calibers as possible.) Study the terminal ballistics of the bullets you choose for hunting; this is where seeking out actual experience is best. Every bullet company's ads show a perfect 'mushroom' shaped bullet pulled from game. What you need to know is at what velocity and yardage, and in what game do you get that perfect mushroom?
I have no doubt that you will take to metallic cartridge reloading like a duck to water. I look forward to your posts of results, and remember that you can always search this forum and ask the many reloaders here; somebody will have an answer to your questions.

 

[SQLGeek]

I have the Lyman AA-8 and like it well enough. It's well built. I haven't yet used all 8 stations at once but having the flexibility to setup various dies is nice. I bought mine primarily to load pistol cartridges as it is faster than a single stage. I will occasionally load for non-precision rifle. Were I loading primarily for rifles, I probably would have gone with a single stage due to the possibility for turret flex. But I don't have any hard numbers to back that up, it is just a feeling.

Be warned it won't always land used primers in the cup (though it usually does). There are some 3D printed aftermarket options out there to better catch the primers. The priming system is finicky and I actually broke the primer punch trying to switch sizes. I decided to prime off press. The priming system will get you started but you may want to switch to something else eventually.

The other thing I've noticed, the press seems to rust in places pretty easily. My reloading space is in my garage so I expected that some but it seems excessive. May not be an issue for you but I wanted to mention it. And I don't know how that compares to other presses.

As for the Lyman kit, I've been generally pleased with the remainder of the components. They all work well.

 

[AJC1]

I have some questions that may or may not be important. Does your 338 based cartridge fit in a standard press. Is this the biggest round you load. Have you ever sized this cartridge in any press? If your goal is quality cartridges for hunting and your dealing with bigger rifles you may want to consider something like a Redding big boss. Having a big frame will give you clearance and having all the leverage will make dealing with big cases easier. In your OP you mentioned rifle only so having a big strong press for those larger cartridges makes sense to me, especially when pistol rounds are not a primary goal. For that exact same reason I would recommend against a turret as high loads from big rifle rounds works against the turrets main weakness.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1013047556

 

[packetloss]

I'm not currently "dead set" on any brand (not interested in brand cachet in my OP). If I was dead set, I wouldn't be asking for thoughts & opinions. I really don't see a progressive loader ever in my future as mentioned in my OP, that's about all I can classify as being dead-set from my interests.

My goal is to enjoy producing artisanal customized ammunition primarily for my hunting rifles vs factory fodder. One example: I have some rifles in 7X64mm Brenneke, others in .30-06 Springfield, another in 7mm-08, some .243 Winchester, 9.3X62mm, .338-06 and a .270 Winchester currently in my hunting rifle harem for specifics. Some HD/PD pieces as well as some milsurps and vintage pieces, both long guns and handguns, in a variety of mainstream and more obscure for the USA cartidges. More generalized in my OP: some more mainstream and some more obscure / limited for factory ammunition.

For those rifle rounds, single stage is good and a turret even better.

For 38 special, unless you plan to load small volumes, you will not enjoy that on a single stage or turret. It's not that you can't do it, it just requires too much intervention that it becomes painful. I guess it really depends on just how much pistol ammo you will want to load as to it being realistic to rule out a progressive. Personally I don't like being the case feeder, the bullet feeder or the indexer. I don't mind pulling the handle and eyeballing the powder fill.

 

[MCFLYFYTER]

For those rifle rounds, single stage is good and a turret even better.

For 38 special, unless you plan to load small volumes, you will not enjoy that on a single stage or turret. It's not that you can't do it, it just requires too much intervention that it becomes painful. I guess it really depends on just how much pistol ammo you will want to load as to it being realistic to rule out a progressive. Personally I don't like being the case feeder, the bullet feeder or the indexer. I don't mind pulling the handle and eyeballing the powder fill.

How long does it take you to setup your progressive and get everything dialed in 100%?

 

[AJC1]

For those rifle rounds, single stage is good and a turret even better.

For 38 special, unless you plan to load small volumes, you will not enjoy that on a single stage or turret. It's not that you can't do it, it just requires too much intervention that it becomes painful. I guess it really depends on just how much pistol ammo you will want to load as to it being realistic to rule out a progressive. Personally I don't like being the case feeder, the bullet feeder or the indexer. I don't mind pulling the handle and eyeballing the powder fill.

Sounds a lot like you do not enjoy reloading and anything reducing your time or effort is a win. That's not a bad thing, but I enjoy spending time on a single stage loading pistol cartridges. If I had to load progressive 9mm would be the one for sure. Any cartridge after 9mm is pure bliss.

 

[packetloss]

How long does it take you to setup your progressive and get everything dialed in 100%?

First time ever, it takes a bit as you need to learn how to properly do it (i.e lock down dies with cases in various stations to get them properly centered when locked down). After that, I can tweak things and reset everything back up pretty quickly (under 10 minutes, maybe even 5). Even doing the powder if I swap powders is rather quick.

 

[packetloss]

Sounds a lot like you do not enjoy reloading and anything reducing your time or effort is a win. That's not a bad thing, but I enjoy spending time on a single stage loading pistol cartridges. If I had to load progressive 9mm would be the one for sure. Any cartridge after 9mm is pure bliss.

Not true at all. I really like reloading, but I don't like rote tedium type tasks. Think of it in terms of lets say there are 2 ways you can drive 25 minutes to the store, one way has 10 lights that you always get stopped at and the other is the highway with no stops at all. Both ways take 25 minutes but the highway drive is just more pleasant. I find 9mm super fun and easy to reload on my Dillon 750. Takes me 10 minutes to crank out the 100 rounds I typically bring down to the range.

 

[rocirish]

I would consider myself in somewhat the same position as the op. I have a couple of older Lyman ST's (bought used) that I use for pistol cartridges and a "few" single stage presses that I use for rifle cartridges. Works for me.

 

[sequins]

I recommend a single stage for precision rifle. I use a forster co-ax, redding dies, redding powder drop, redding trickler, dillon primer tray, mitotoyu calipers and ball micrometer, lyman loading blocks, a sinclair neck turning kit, and a gemtech scale.

This setup makes superior ammunition. It's easy and fast to load and change dies of a forster co-ax, as easy as a turret and far more precise.

 

[Mr. Zorg]

Thanks for all the continuing helpful replies! Just as I expected.

I'm moving forward purchasing pre-owned equipment piecemeal now and then instead of looking at kits where my wife could give it to me as a gift to get started without having to do some sort of further research on her part. It's truly a case of it's the thought that counts.

I picked up the scale I was looking at for the price of a less sophisticated scale with a powder trickler mount beside pan. It's what I consider to be the right level of removing what could become tedious vs spending as much as the whole kit I was considering on an Auto-trickler.

I'm certainly open to considering some off-press priming knicknack for case priming. Especially since I haven't settled on a press so far. Those kind of tips are what I posted this thread about. No sense in pursuing an improved case mounted priming tube or such if there's a voice of experience saying I'll become dissatisfied with on-press priming system "upgrades".

The .338-06 cartridge is based on a necked -up .30-06 case, similar to the. 35 Whelen but uses .338 bullets. The 7X64mm is probably the longest case in my battery at 64mm and testing high BC long heavy for caliber bullets if I take a trip somewhere that 300+ yard shot distances are common for the game being hunted. For antelope and such I have a rifle chambered in .25-06 Remington that has served me well thus far on whitetail and feral hogs. Otherwise I don't see me being a part of the target market for 0.5+ G1 BC bullet supply. Loading up 7X64mm Brenneke cartridges with 170 grain Semi-spitzer Oryx bullets is more my interest since I haven't been able to find such factory ammo in the USA, even before this year's pandemic pandemonium.

 

[Mr. Zorg]

I recommend a single stage for precision rifle. I use a forster co-ax, redding dies, redding powder drop, redding trickler, dillon primer tray, mitotoyu calipers and ball micrometer, lyman loading blocks, a sinclair neck turning kit, and a gemtech scale.

This setup makes superior ammunition. It's easy and fast to load and change dies of a forster co-ax, as easy as a turret and far more precise.

I've looked into coaxial presses, the current production Forster Coaxial I looked at has mentions in reviews of being a poor choice for use with handgun cartridges. It's on the spendy side but that's not a deal killer for higher quality, with generally high reviews for rifle cartridges.

I see some used Forster Bonanza presses for sale on eBay that probably merit further investigation as to how well they work with handgun cartridges and if they lack the issues with the shellholder-free jaws system of the current production model.

The current production Frankfort Arsenal Coaxial M press is about half the cost with mixed reviews but appears from owners with positive reviews it works with both handgun and rifle cartridges. Additionally it appears to be more portable, able to be set up using C-clamps to an appropriate bench. That's of value as there isn't a carpet free room in our house that would serve as a dedicated reloading room, but there are rooms without carpeting that would well severe for intermittent reloading.

The hunt continues . . .

 

[sequins]

I use my forster co-ax for handgun rounds as well, other than the single-stage speed and tbh it's better than most single stages, slightly faster than a turret IMO. What issue are reviewers raising with the handgun loading that is unique to the co-ax? (I get no compensation from Forster for advocating their brand- I just really like it!)

I actually got a shellholder for rifle rounds and no longer take advantage of the universal shellplate for rifles, but for handguns it's a great feature. INSTANT caliber changes.

 

[gifbohane]

The truth is that I really like reloading. It gives me pleasure.

 

[GW Staar]

Conceptually, they do sound great, in function, to me, they don’t work as well as other choices.

If expediting the operations is the goal, they are not that good because they require the same number of strokes as a single stage to complete a single round.

Have to agree with others recommending a single stage. If you really want to be set up efficiently for more than one caliber......buy two. or three.....

Someday you may get the itch to do things faster.......that's when the progressive bug hits. For me it was when I started approaching retirement age. Reloading became .... well... slow, time consuming. And at that age when there's still lots I wanted to do, but I realized there was no longer plenty of time left to do it, I started looking for time saving efficiency, removing bottlenecks, and even more important, less strain on me physically. The progressive, not the turret was the answer.