Another possible solution to illegal immigration

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Fletchette

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The Federal 1996 immigration law stipulates a $10,000 fine for each illegal immigrant employed at a company to be paid by that business. Obviously, the Feds are not enforcing this law. Could we possibly have Tom Tancredo sponsor a bill allowing the states to collect this fine? The states would jump at the chance to collect these penalties. The result would be that these companies would immediately divest themselves of illegal workers.

Thoughts?
 
U.S. Firms Recruit Cheap Labor in Mexico
By JULIE WATSON and OLGA R. RODRIGUEZ, Associated Press Writers 2 hours, 23 minutes ago
SASABE, Mexico - When Pedro Lopez Vazquez crossed illegally into the United States last week, he was not heading north to look for a job. He already had one.

His future employer even paid $1,000 for a smuggler to help Vazquez make his way from the central Mexican city of Puebla to Aspen, Colo.
"We're going to Colorado to work in carpentry because we have a friend who was going to give us a job," Vazquez said.
Vazquez, 41, was interviewed along the Arizona border after being deported twice by the U.S. Border Patrol. He said he would keep trying until he got to Aspen.
His story is not unusual. A growing number of U.S. employers and migrants are tapping into an underground employment network that matches one with the other, often before the migrants leave home.
"It continues to become clear who controls immigration: It's not governments, but rather the market," said Jorge Santibanez, director of the Tijuana-based think-tank Colegio de la Frontera Norte.
As debate over immigration heats up in the United States, more and more U.S. companies in need of cheap labor are turning to undocumented employees to recruit friends and relatives back home, and to smugglers to find job seekers.
Darcy Tromanhauser, of the nonprofit law project Nebraska Appleseed, said companies in need of workers rely on the networks to "pass along the information more effectively than billboards."
"It started out more explicitly, where (meatpacking) companies used to have buses to transport people to come up, and they would advertise directly in Mexico," she said. "Now I think that happens more informally."
At the same time, it has become less risky for companies to recruit illegal migrants. Since the Sept. 11 terror attacks, U.S. prosecution of employers who hire such workers has dwindled to a trickle as the government puts its resources toward national security.
 
Maybe I'm too cynical, but I've come to the conclusion that nothing meaningful will happen until after a suitcase nuke has gone off and the travel path is traced back through Mexico.

Even then, Denver homebuilders and companies like Tyson Foods will squall like banshees. The Aztlan crowd will lose much sleep, studying hard in thinking up ways to short-circuit any real solutions...

Art
 
Here's the problem.

$10,000 is peanuts. Even if enforced, the fine would be a calculated risk, and well worth it when a business can save $50,000 per year, per illegal employee. No union wage or market wage, no health benefits, no lawsuit for workers' comp. A company could be busted and fined for hiring an illegal immigrant SEVERAL TIMES PER YEAR, PER POSITION, before there was a genuine disincentive to hire more!

Here's the solution:

Make it $100,000, and do audits and raids everywhere, not just at the border, and the illegal immigration problem is gone in 6 months. Political pressure drops to near zero, since we're going after Americans who profit from illegal immigration, not the poor underclass who comes here to feed their kids better.

Reinstate the Brasero program for seasonal work, so farmers don't have crops that rot in the field or on the tree -- this is a real problem, BTW. Farmers need LOTS of people for a short period of time, and with an unemployment rate of 4.5% the US does not have a large temporary, migrant work pool. Teens and students could do some, but not all, of what's needed. Do that, and the pressure from agriculture to allow illegal immigration will diminish enormously, especially in light of the $100,000 fines. And legal migrant workers will be better off, too, since they won't be de facto slaves.

Guard the border for national security reasons. Don't expect a few Border Patrol agents bouncing around the Southwestern backcountry in their Jeeps and Expeditions to solve a large-scale problem caused mostly by powerful economic forces operating far from them. Change these economic forces, so the BP can do their real job of keeping the US safe from silent invasion by terrorists, criminals, etc.
 
Maybe I'm too cynical, but I've come to the conclusion that nothing meaningful will happen until after a suitcase nuke has gone off and the travel path is traced back through Mexico.

Even then, Denver homebuilders and companies like Tyson Foods will squall like banshees. The Aztlan crowd will lose much sleep, studying hard in thinking up ways to short-circuit any real solutions...
Click to expand...

That's not cynical, that's just a clear-headed assessment of the brutal facts of the case.

Someone needs to tell the lawbreaking segment of American business that compound interest doesn't help you when you're dead.
 
Here's the problem.

$10,000 is peanuts. Even if enforced, the fine would be a calculated risk, and well worth it when a business can save $50,000 per year, per illegal employee. No union wage or market wage, no health benefits, no lawsuit for workers' comp. A company could be busted and fined for hiring an illegal immigrant SEVERAL TIMES PER YEAR, PER POSITION, before there was a genuine disincentive to hire more!

Here's the solution:

Make it $100,000, and do audits and raids everywhere, not just at the border, and the illegal immigration problem is gone in 6 months. Political pressure drops to near zero, since we're going after Americans who profit from illegal immigration, not the poor underclass who comes here to feed their kids better.

Reinstate the Brasero program for seasonal work, so farmers don't have crops that rot in the field or on the tree -- this is a real problem, BTW. Farmers need LOTS of people for a short period of time, and with an unemployment rate of 4.5% the US does not have a large temporary, migrant work pool. Teens and students could do some, but not all, of what's needed. Do that, and the pressure from agriculture to allow illegal immigration will diminish enormously, especially in light of the $100,000 fines. And legal migrant workers will be better off, too, since they won't be de facto slaves.

Guard the border for national security reasons. Don't expect a few Border Patrol agents bouncing around the Southwestern backcountry in their Jeeps and Expeditions to solve a large-scale problem caused mostly by powerful economic forces operating far from them. Change these economic forces, so the BP can do their real job of keeping the US safe from silent invasion by terrorists, criminals, etc.
Click to expand...

This is 100% correct. One of the arguments made about allowing those already here to stay is "How are we going to deport them all? It will cost billions." Cutting off their jobs will do this with little or no cost. In fact if the fines are high enough .gov could actually make money from this. In addition it would totally remove the incentive for new illegals to come here.
 
L.A. Times q&a with Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa, 4.15.06:

Q: Since you got involved in a very visible and active way a few weeks ago, what has the reaction been?

A: The letters and e-mails have been overwhelmingly negative, maybe 500 to 1, maybe a little more…. But I think we're elected to do what's right, not necessarily what's popular.

*

Q: Illegal immigrants place some burden on city services, whether it's fire or police or sewer or whatever. Is there any way to measure the cost that the city of Los Angeles pays to care for people who are here illegally, and is that a cost worth paying?

A: I don't know what the cost of providing services to the undocumented would be, but I do know this: The responsibility for those costs is the federal government's, and for more than a decade I have maintained that the federal government, which receives the Social Security and income taxes generated by these immigrants, should reimburse cities and counties for any expense incurred.

*

Q: Would the Los Angeles Unified School District do a better job of educating if it excluded children who are undocumented?

A: Our schools are compelled by the Constitution to provide all residents with a public school education, so that's a hypothetical that the law doesn't provide for.

*

Q: Are there any proposals before Congress that you support?

A: For many years now, I have said that every country in the world has immigration laws, we have every right to have immigration laws, and, as a nation founded on the principle of the rule of law, it is our responsibility to enforce those laws and to have consequences when our laws are broken.

Finally, I've said that while we have every right to enforce our immigration laws, that in a great and good America founded on the backs of immigrants, we must enforce those laws in a humane and constitutional way.

*

Q: Which, if any, proposals in Congress would do that?

A: I believe that the McCain-Kennedy framework is the best vehicle to do that.

*

Q: What makes it superior to other bills?

A: It rejects the idea that we would take 12 million immigrants and turn them into felons. It includes tougher enforcement, employer sanctions for businesses that hire the undocumented. Smart border security. Collaboration with our neighbors. And it gives the 12 million undocumented immigrants a pathway to legal status, provided they pay a fine, pass a background check and learn to speak English. This is important.

Finally, it doesn't pull these people ahead of the line.

*

Q: Would legislation that legalizes some immigrants, based on how long they have been in this country, and leaves some others illegal help or hurt this situation?

A: I think it's impractical, and it would be a bureaucratic nightmare.

*

Q: How has this issue affected the national political equation? Are Republicans in danger of heading down a Pete Wilson path? Are Democrats at risk of seeming to coddle lawlessness?

A: I haven't spent a lot of time speculating on the political ramifications of this issue. I approach it as an issue about values, not politics.

...
 
If Hispanics want to make this a race/ethnicity issue, when it isn't--this is about ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION and nothing but--they can expect, after they've pushed out their chests for a while, a major backlash.

Frankly, I find all of this to be sad and a bit scary but more sad than anything else. The Left, both here and abroad, wants nothing more than to turn America's great strength, the integration of disparate groups into a unified culture, into its great weakness. They want to fragment this nation along racial and ethnic lines (and, where possible, gender lines). Where this is all going to go I don't know. Maybe danger and calamity will spur unity, maybe it will spur even more and more rapid disintegration.

I think we're going to need leaders who speak out fearlessly about this subject and who are above pandering.
 
Tancredo will need to show himself as more than a one-issue candidate--even if that issue is a critical one--to be considered a viable national contender for the Presidency. Illegal immigration has to be viewed as part of a national cancer eating away at the legacy of the Founding Fathers.
 
Sadly,the average American isn't concerned with the legacy of the Framers - only their comfort level, and that very comfort level is now under assault as a consequence of the invasion and it's becoming more and more visible everyday.
Hey, I'll take my victories wherever I can get 'em.
Biker
 
The more I think about illegal folks wanting American Culture, Goods and Services...I say give it to them. Just dump it in their lap.

C 130s to drop HUGE Amounts of ...

Barney The Dino, The Bee Gees Music, McDonald's Fries,...
Tapes, gotta have tapes...Senate Hearings,( that ought to bore them to death, just pick the right ones is all) Movies, "Yentel" should do it,(for sure they will learn the terms "bad" , "boring" and "awful") books, send them the Children's Classic "How to Eat Worms" ...great book btw, just we present it as a rite of passage for US kids and a recipe book for adults...

Chicken in every pot, how many chickens and coops fit in a C130? Better make it 3 C130s...

Oganizations, illegals want .org...given 'em some. Well PETA will have panties in a wad, so boot kick a C130 full of PETA folks after the Chickens start decending...tell 'em it is Wing Walking - an American Tradition...they want some American Traditions this would be a good one to start, then introduce Turkey Drops in November...

Free housing? FEMA ever get them trailers to NOLA? Still working on it you say? How may FEMAs fit a C130? Kill two birds with one stone with this one, FEMA gets to play 'homeland security' <whistle..."bombs away"....> and folks below understand the English word for "white trash trailer park".

Gimmee another keyboard, I'm on roll here...

"But Steve, this might cause an international incident, we are not suppose to cross borders".

Tell 'em Bird Bird from Sesame Street is coming to visit and his kinfolk - 'sides that "memo" about borders and such...obviously got lost, big time, some time ago I might add...now where was I ?...oh yeah...

...in the meantime, anybody know how 'puter literat these illegals are? Because I figure a load of 'puters that only get wrong wing whiney butt forums, and tainted with software that not only makes them members, also moderators of a L&P forum should drive them nuts in short order and re-think some of this...

...excuse me, I need to pick Fred Reed's brain on some of this...

I get dibbs on riding shotgun and booting the first load out btw...

Careful what you ask for - you might just get it

:)
 
The Left, both here and abroad, wants nothing more than to turn America's great strength, the integration of disparate groups into a unified culture, into its great weakness. They want to fragment this nation along racial and ethnic lines (and, where possible, gender lines). Where this is all going to go I don't know.
Click to expand...

Yes, you do know. The tried and true divide and conquer method always leads to greater government power. In this case, it's all about turning America into a larger, somewhat more prosperous East Germany.
 
If you want more of something, subsidize it. If you want less of something, remove the financial incentives. (Write that down. there'll be a test, next period.)

Okay, how about this: Make it illegal to SEND money out of the U.S. except by check or wire transfer. (You can take your cash and/or traveler's checks as a tourist, etc.)

No postal money orders or cash to an address outside the U.S.

With all this Homeland Security, opening a bank account is far more controlled than in the past.

Folks back in Mexico are needful of that weekly or bi-weekly envelope with cash or a PMO. The guy who can't send money home has a problem.

I don't claim this as a cure, but it's an inhibitor. Every little bit helps.
 
my opinion is that anybody w/o ties to terrorist organizations or a criminal record should be allowed to come and go as they please.

they should only be allowed to go through a security point, which would make sure they're not carrying plant matter or various contraband. but other than that, let them come and go.

there are two very distinct issues here: security and jobs

my view above has the best reasonable level of security (everybody gets checked, which is about all we can do short of not allowing anyone at all in our out) but it does nothing about jobs, because, well, i think the jobs stuff is mostly union BS.
 
My thoughts are that in comparison to gas prices, tax cuts for the ultra rich, and the more than 300 billion dollars spent on Iraq, illegal immigrants are an economical non-issue. They are not the best thing for the economy, but they are a drop in the bucket compared to what Bush has done.

Some of you are worried about loose borders enabling terrorist attacks. I have news for you. In all likelyhood you can count on there already being sleeper cells of terrorists in the US, and besides, tighter borders might stop some potential attacks, but if the millions and millions of illegal immigrants who have found their way into this country are any indication, you can't stop them all.
 
Biker said:
Now, someone try to tell me that these people aren't well organised. They're going after Lou Dobbs.


http://hispanic.cc/ax_aol.htm

Biker
Click to expand...

While I strongly disagree with CNN on most of its reporting, I am glad to see Mr. Dobbs so strongly address the border issue, particularly the need to fix the border mess before any domestic legislation. The fact that Dobbs is now tangling with the militant Hispanic voice means that his reporting is successful.

Bravo Lou....
 
Given the ease of forgery of ID documents such as Social Security cards, Green Cards or Driver's Licenses, there's no way any employer can really determine citizenship.

That's part of the deal, twenty years back during the Simpson/Mazzoli doings, when there was talk in Congress about a national ID card.

If you can run a VISA card through a swipe-box, you can do the same with the ID card. It would work just like the NICS.

It's immaterial whether or not you or I approve of the idea. If you want some result, there are way of doing it that aren't subject to opinion. If you want to separate citizens from illegals, you must have some method of certain identification.

Art
 
Given the ease of forgery of ID documents such as Social Security cards, Green Cards or Driver's Licenses, there's no way any employer can really determine citizenship.
Click to expand...

Citizens are required to have basic English fluency. Workers who can't muster five words of English are prima facie not legal. Language competency would be a good place to start the filtering process.
 
Citizens are required to have basic English fluency. Workers who can't muster five words of English are prima facie not legal. Language competency would be a good place to start the filtering process.
Click to expand...



i would have to agree other than the fact that illegal immagrants are learning english in thier native lands jsut so that they can come here it is all a plot by foriegn powers to over run our country immagrants come here by a house hav a kid in 10 yers they own many house have many kids and soon tell us what to do and where to go. it is an invasion a slow and steady one.
 
longeyes said:
Citizens are required to have basic English fluency. Workers who can't muster five words of English are prima facie not legal. Language competency would be a good place to start the filtering process.
Click to expand...

Guess what? The National Education Association (NEA) would be against your proposal! You know why? Schools need to hire more teachers to teach English to immigrant school children. Your proposal would reduce said new teachers quite a bit! That's how ridiculous it is now... teachers stand to gain from disolvtion of our national language!

I agree with your idea... Can't speak English => please leave!
 
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