Another range moron heard from...

[earplug]

When someone does something stupid or unsafe around me I correct them.
I try and be polite, firm and inflexible on safety.
If I were swept twice and didn't do anything about, I'd feel like a fool.

 

[CountGlockula]

"He who rebukes a man will in the end gain more favor than he who has a flattering tongue."

Some folks have to learn the stern way, than the soft spoken way.

 

[Strings]

Ummm... I'll defer to the lawyers present, but isn't having a gun pointed at you considered "assault with a deadly weapon" (or something similar)? Isn't it also justification for the use of deadly force against the agresor?

Had something like that happen at my inlaws: FIL had just gotten the scope mounted on his .270, and was messing with it in the living room. As I walked in, the muzzle swept twords me: I danced back out of the way. Then calmly explained to my FIL that he just violated the law, and I could be considered justified in shooting him when he does stuff like that...

He hasn't swept me since, oddly enough.

 

[Zundfolge]

The antis say us gun owners are nothing but a bunch of Dirty Harry wannabes ... looks more like we're a bunch of R. Lee Ermey wannabes

 

[DrewH]

Ummm... I'll defer to the lawyers present, but isn't having a gun pointed at you considered "assault with a deadly weapon" (or something similar)? Isn't it also justification for the use of deadly force against the agresor?

Had something like that happen at my inlaws: FIL had just gotten the scope mounted on his .270, and was messing with it in the living room. As I walked in, the muzzle swept twords me: I danced back out of the way. Then calmly explained to my FIL that he just violated the law, and I could be considered justified in shooting him when he does stuff like that...

I think intent is pretty important in determining whether someone is assaulting and you would very likely end up defending yourself in court against murder or manslaughter charges.

Plus I think it is lousy way to stop the safety violation as I guess many people would instinctively shoot back.

I have heard firearms instructors say this for effect but never seen them shoot anybody

 

[DrewH]

Most people honestly don't know better, having seen endless Hollywood movies with the hero's finger firmly jammed on trigger as he waves the gun around. I am always polite, and almost always the person will correct him or herself, even if they are a little embarrassed.

 

[crebralfix]

The proper response is:

"CEASE FIRE. SAFE AND GROUND YOUR WEAPONS AND STEP BACK BEHIND THE LINE."

Then, proceed to have a little talk with the offender with the RO present.

 

[DougDubya]

I'm always glad when my range sessions in early afternoon are populated only by my girl and I.

Even so, my girl is VERY aware of muzzle discipline, even with slidelock and finger on the frame.

 

[Rampant_Colt]

Much of this poor firearm handling comes directly from what they've seen on tv and Hollywood

Everytime i'm at the gunshop or some gunshow i always witness some n00b let the slide on an autoloader snap closed on an empty chamber then proceed to muzzle sweep you.

 

[CountGlockula]

True Rampart...but also from learning those bad habits from yahoos that don't know what they're doing either. So it's an endless cycle.

 

[Brian Dale]

Then, proceed to have a little talk with the offender with the RO present.

Yes, and "a little talk" can mean either venting your spleen or behaving like a coach and a mentor. You all know which will be more effective in the long run. For example,

I try and be polite, firm and inflexible on safety.

And Good One, Zundfolge.

 

[Strings]

Oddly enough, I did NOT shoot my FIL: just pointed out some possibilities...

 

[rbernie]

Bullet Trap in Plano is pretty conscienscious. They patrol the lanes regularly and correct bad behavior.

At least twice in the last couple of years, I've actually had to walk over and stand with one of their employees because they were trying to enforce range rules to somebodyoranother who didn't want to listen and was lookin' to get belligerent about it.

In general, tho, their clientele is better than most. I also avoid shooting there on Saturday and Sunday afternoons like the plague.

 

[jdorian]

+1 to Zundfolge, good call

 

[2nd 41]

My indoor range reads the riot act to every shooter before they enter the range. The houseman clearly states that the guns stay pointed down range all of the time. Do not remove it from the lane. Change bodies...not guns if wanting to shoot each others guns. If the gun jams...leave it on the counter top pointing down range. Come outside and notify the range official. And so on.
I did get swept once with the hammer back. Walked outside....told the houseman....he got pissed.Said that was the second time the shooter did that. The shooter was politely/firmly asked to Leave.

 

[Gaucho Gringo]

For people with physical or strength problems they would be best off in my opinion with a single action revolver for personal defense. It is a lot easier in my experience to cock the trigger on a single action revolver than to rack the slide on a pistol or pull a heavy trigger on a double action revolver. And for the critics that point out the follow up shot I say what good is that if you can't get the first shot off. At last the first shot gives you a chance. WARNING. this is not directed at the young. strong and otherwise physically fit members of THR but is the opinion of a member that well knows the problems of being less than 100% physically able but loves to shoot and uses guns that I am able to shoot.

 

[kurtmax]

I was 'lightly' swept by a Ruger mk1 (I stopped it before he completely swept me) while teaching a friend how to shoot. He seemed rather embarrassed and it didn't happen again. It was unloaded too, but that's not the point

I normally pack up and leave when any crazies come to the range. I don't even wait to see how military guys are.. I just pack up and leave. The Army must be budgeting firearms safety to other areas...

 

[OAKTOWN]

Its no wonder the gun culture is dying out, what with new shooters constantly barraged by angry coots and curmudgeons cussing them out and threatening them with violence for "minor" infractions of the safety rules.

Pointing a firearm in my general direction is not what I would consider a "minor" infraction. It really detracts, from my enjoyment of my range time, wondering if the moron who just swept me with his muzzle is just a little stupid or if he has one in the chamber as well. I don't correct people however, I don't go to the range to babysit grown adults. I just let the RO know they may want to keep an eye on said person before their ignorance requires an ambulance and a mop.

 

[HK G3]

After reading through this thread, I can't help but think of the question... would we actually be better off if you had to pass a firearms safety course prior to purchasing a firearm?

It seems everyone here has had more than their fair share of close misses - it's shocking more people haven't been injured or killed. And it seems it would only take a few of those to really mount a successful assault on firearms ownership. Usually I'm always against any sort of annoying regulations, but it seems like safety courses may be in order for a large subset of the populace, and would help make threads like these nonexistant...

Thoughts?

 

[dmazur]

Even though it's not one of the Four Rules, we practice a modified form of gun shop protocol - "Every gun is loaded until it is safely shown to be unloaded in the presence of all concerned."

Basically, open action while observing muzzle control, verify unloaded, leave action open (if possible), and then and only then, begin disassembly for cleaning, hand it to someone else for inspection, etc.

Even if no ammo is in the room, same protocol before handing it back or putting it back in the safe.

At our private shooting range, we observe the Rules without modification, as nobody is supposed to be inspecting rifles and pointing the muzzle anywhere but downrange. Rifles not in use are racked with the action open or cased.

IMO, gun shop protocol isn't a bad idea to add to firearm handling, even in your home.

 

[Brian Dale]

...would we actually be better off if you had to pass a firearms safety course prior to purchasing a firearm?

I wouldn't.

It might be good to require people to demonstrate safe gun handling before admitting them to a firing range.

 

[Deanimator]

After reading through this thread, I can't help but think of the question... would we actually be better off if you had to pass a firearms safety course prior to purchasing a firearm?

California, Illinois, Massachusetts, New Jersey and New York would have a "safety" course that nobody from Delta Force or GSG9 could pass, COUNT ON IT.

 

[Warren]

California, Illinois, Massachusetts, New Jersey and New York would have a "safety" course that nobody from Delta Force or GSG9 could pass, COUNT ON IT.

Ca does not have a course but you must pass a real easy written test to get your Handgun Safety Certificate.

 

[keeleon]

Quote:
Originally Posted by HK G3
...would we actually be better off if you had to pass a firearms safety course prior to purchasing a firearm?
I wouldn't.

I know it's a slippery slope to say that you should have to pass a safety test before being able to have a gun, but why is it actually a bad idea? Cars are no more dangerous then guns, and I think the system we have in place for them is pretty simple and adequate. I think that everyone should have at least the basic rules down, because the real problem is alot of those guys aren't bad or dumb, they just never had anybody teach them the proper etiquette. I remember going to gun shows with my uncle when I was like 10, and he instilled in me the fear of death that I wasn't to touch anything, and that if I did, I CERTAINLY wasn't to point a gun at someone. Not everyone has that uncle.

 

[JeepGeeek]

was at the range a few hours ago and a brand-new gun owner who'd just bought a XD40 was standing on the line talking with two of us. I noticed he had the gun in his hand (he'd been firing, and had carried it over from his bench), mag in the well and slide forward. I pleasantly told him that was 1)dangerous, and 2) rude. I then gave him a quick brief of the 4 Rules. Said I wasn't trying to be an arse about it and just wanted to make sure noone had an unfortunate accident. He seemed fine if a little embarassed.

... and then he packed up and left. He'd literally not shot 3 rounds.