Another reason not to reveal to LEO

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hey borch,

that's cool. but am i allowed to criticize him for pulling the friggin' trigger with the gun pointed at his leg?!? and am i also allowed to then call into question his obviously sterling judgment as a result of that monumentally stupid maneuver?







just askin'...
 
Let's blame it on global warming.. perhaps somebody didn't have enough carbon credits...How does this stuff happen..? will be interesting to get the whole story, and see where the blame goes...
 
I think we can question all of his motives since the ones we know about were poorly executed, unless we don't have all the story and he meant to shoot himself.

My question is, what responsibility does the driver have in that instance to help the officer?

Am I within my rights to be mad at him for dropping my pistol on the ground after shooting himself with my gun?

Am I within my rights to ask him for $2 to replace the round he just used?

Am I within my rights to ask him to pay for cleaning and to have a gunsmith look at my gun to make sure he didn't hurt it in any way?

Am I within my rights to ask him to purchase a box of ammo to make sure the gun is still sighted in after being dropped in the event I want to use my gun in some manner other than his point and shot method?
 
My question is, what responsibility does the driver have in that instance to help the officer?
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I think at that point your humanity should kick in and you help in any way you can. Any other behavior would be uncivilized.

Worry about the pistol later. Wondering about being reimbursed for a round of ammo is a bit silly.
 
Am I within my rights to ask him for $2 to replace the round he just used?
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You know, if I just watched someone shoot himself with my gun, I don't think I would be worried about the cost of the round. Besides, you wouldn't ask him, you'd ask the department and ultimately the taxpayers.

How exactly does this thread fit the mission of The High Road? It sure seems like an excuse to pile on to a guy who obviously made a mistake.


My question is, what responsibility does the driver have in that instance to help the officer?
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Legally? Who cares. Morally? If you have to ask...
 
I can certainly understand wanting to secure a firearm in a DV situation!

I cannot understand pointing the thing at yourself and I certainly cannot understand putting your finger anywhere near the trigger. Even if the lady had it cocked laying there in the trunk, if you don't put your finger on the trigger it is not going to discharge. I might change my mind if it was a Jennings or something like that but it was a S&W revolver! Unless she had been beating it regularly with a hammer it is not going to discharge if you don't touch the trigger!

Sorry for the rant but "the gun discharged" thing just got me going. Well, and the obvious lack of following the 4 rules.

My opinion? Desk and no gun for the deputy until he's had some remedial firearm safety training.
 
How exactly does this thread fit the mission of The High Road?
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Well, Jorg ... since you asked ... it furthers the cause of those who would disarm everyone, because, you see, even cops shouldn't handle firearms.

It's obvious that everyone who's posted in this thread has a great deal of experience being the lone officer, responding at night, in bad neighborhoods, to calls involving assaults, without knowing who the bad guys (or gals) are ... you all have surely experienced the adrenalin rush, the uncertainty, yes, even the fear, while hostile bystanders scream epithets at you while you're trying to determine just who did what to whom ... while two or three persons stand sweating and bleeding from knife wounds and you're praying for your back-up to get there asap ... yep, all of you are well-qualified to stand in judgement of this deputy.
 
I've carried a gun on five continents, had the namecalling, rocks thrown at me, and a variety of other unsavory things that don't bear repeating.

I've also seen quite a bit of negligence, more and more often, on the part of those we are supposed to trust. I don't limit that to LEOs. If a doctor took my appendix and left his watch in there, I'd raise the question.

Wish I could find the video, several officers have a suspect prone, the situation is under control, and a female officer discharges a weapon, the round strike is inches from the guys head.

I think what bugs me most about this story is that it very easily could have been the woman who was hit.

The vast majority of LEOs I've encountered are professionals. I respect a pro. When we hand out badges and authority, perhaps we should ensure that those who recieve them are ready.
 
and since the guy was in not one scenario you just spelled out:)

Dog, c'mon, be honest here.
Lets all not sit in judgement of a goof ball who shot himself.
I love it this is rich. "I am Police and I can make comments about you and my right to disarm you because of all that can happen to me, but how dare you question me as to why and what could happen when I handle your firearm! I AM THE LAAW!"
So now tell me how did this affect his "right to going home safely" that night?
 
There are nowhere near enough details on this incident for anyone to criticize this man for simply doing his job.
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You seem to be assuming there are enough details to suggest removing the gun in the first place was part of his job. But I tend to agree that there is not enough information in the story to determine whether or not there was good reason to remove the gun in the first place.

There certainly is reason to chide him for unsafe gun handling.

Perhaps he is in need of a refresher course on the three rules. I am sure there is an NRA certified instructor near by who could get him into a class soon.
 
elchupacobra, I would wager if they filed it as intentional libel, they might get somewhere. At the very least an order that the media be proper in future reports.

Borch, he was taking a firearm out of a citizens trunk. That alone is grounds for criticism.

wyocarp, you are within your rights to ask all those things. I would actually demand though. Via a lawyer. The whole thing stinks. As for helping him? He has a radio. I wouldn't lift a finger. Might calla lawyer though off to the side to protect me though. Keep in mind, you have no legal obligation to help him. Morally? He was taking your gun. I feel no moral obligation to help a man such as that.
 
Well, according to at least two, I'm not very "high road." Okay.

But I have had a traffic stop where I had my guns removed from me for the "officers safety" and I wasn't happy about it.

I wasn't happy about him pulling two .500 revolvers out of my shoulder holster rig, pointing them at my chest, all the while making comments that assured me that he knew very little about the guns he was removing from me that were legally being carried.

I wasn't happy that he slammed my $1500 performance center revolvers (one with a $500 scope on it) down on top of my $50,000 truck without any consideration for either.

I wasn't happy about sitting handcuffed in the back of a patrol car for over an hour while two officers carelessly removed all of my belongings from truck and put it on the road.

I'm clearly not a rampant criminal, I have a concealed weapons permit. I'm a clean cut guy who is approaching 50 years old.

I wasn't happy that this was happening because I slowed down from 60 to 40 and coasted by him. His comment was that he felt I could have slowed down another 5 mph while going by him. He was sitting on the side of the road with his lights on, by himself, on a stretch of road where one could see for probably 10 miles out in the middle of sage brush country.

If he was so concerned for his safety, leave me alone. Let me drive down the road in a responsible manner without being harrased by police.

There are too many officers that want everyone else to take the high road while they are total jerks.

So, when I put myself in this scenario, I see myself being pushed around by a jerk and then all of a sudden I'm supposed to feel compassion for his stupidity? I'm sorry, but NO.
 
So, when I put myself in this scenario, I see myself being pushed around by a jerk and then all of a sudden I'm supposed to feel compassion for his stupidity? I'm sorry, but NO.
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But that's not what happened here. Take your case and add to it.

What if this cop that you despise so much happened to shoot himself in the leg with your very nice Performance Center Smith.

Sounds like from what you're saying is that you'd let him bleed to death. That's way past being a jerk, that's pure evil.

Sue their a&* off for damages later, if there are real damages. I'm not sure that 1 .38 Special round is worth the trouble......
 
I never questioned the fact that he possibly/probably did something unsafe with the weapon. What I was drawing attention to is the people who were questioning his motives for removing the firearm form the trunk. We don't know what gave him cause to want to remove the weapon from from the trunk. Like I said, maybe the trunk was open and the weapon could have been readily accessed. Some people seemd to want to crucify this guy because he removed the gun from the trunk.

Did he do something usafe with the weapon? Probably. Did he have a valid reason for removing it from it's place? Not enough details to decide that.
 
I remember clearly as a child being introduced to a uniformed officer by my parents. I was told if I was lost or in trouble, I should find one of these men and they would take care of me. I asked the officer if this was true, and he smiled and said "You bet, buddy".

I never dreamed it would come to what it has today. Shouldn't those who demand our respect be worthy of it?
 
TexasRif,

It is NOT pure evil. Pure evil is a government agent disarming a citizen. I see no problem at all with not lifting a single finger to assist.

I am with wyocarp on this.

As an aside, wyocarp, how did the cops find out about yours? Did you inform them? If so, yet one more reason to not inform.
 
WyoCarp

Exactly!
The original post was "Why not to inform" and I think we have given ample reason why not to. Yet we always have the usual well it's because of safety or my right to go home or well you can't judge because you haven't been in my shoes etc. My own experience with disarmament was not as drastic but still WAY unsafe. I was poo pooed and some people spouted the same stuff not to question LEO's on this board. When I mentioned this as a possible outcome, again Poo pooed and told officer safety trumps. Since mine was in my pocket, it would have likely been MY LEG with the hole. Would I have recousrse to sue? Right...Good luck...
So now the LEO has shot himself in this scenario. I would say we have given ample reasons, for the officers safety AND ours, to NOT INFORM. After all, this Darwin candidate had a right to go home safely and he should have been provided the best way to do that. -by not giving him reasons to fondle sharp, pointy, or dangerous objects (guns) and point them at himself.
 
Agreed, it is not always safe, or necessary for the police to disarm a citizen.

In fact it is probably rarely safe, or necessary.

It certainly seems like it's a power trip for them to disarm the citizen. It always makes me want to say, "how about we trade. I will disarm you, you disarm me, ok?"

I guess the officer's sense of safety is more important than the citizen's actual safety?
 
What if this cop that you despise so much happened to shoot himself in the leg with your very nice Performance Center Smith.

Sounds like from what you're saying is that you'd let him bleed to death. That's way past being a jerk, that's pure evil.
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One of the officer's comments after pulling the one revolver out of my shoulder holster that had the scope was, "this looks dangerous." It was pointed at my chest with me in handcuffs when he said that.

Texasrifleman, you are being very supportive of officers, maybe you have been one. I always hear that they have a tuff job. Based solely on my experiences with them, they make their job harder than it needs to be. They constantly raise the stakes and then complain about it.

I guess you read my post. Even if the officer felt I could have slowed down an additional 4 mph on top of the 20 while passing him, he could have made that comment and let me go since he couldn't write me a ticket for it anyway. Then we wouldn't have had the whole gun scenario happen. He wouldn't have had to worry about his safety.

We are living in a "free" society until the police decide they want to violate us. Then we are worse off than living in middle east somewhere.

In my opinion, until the police decide that they want to be part of the solution and not part of the problem, I have no use for them!

As far as what happens to them when they shoot themselves, I don't know. I think it's kinda the same as what I would do with someone who has broken into my home and was bleeding from having cut himself on the glass window he was crawling through.
 
I suspect a thread lock is forthcoming.

I am not a huge fan of the way policing is carried out these days. But most of that is not because individual cops are evil (although a few undoubtedly are). The system is what is evil and that is what should be attacked.
 
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