Please don't lynch me for starting another AK vs. AR thread, but...

[Bernie Lomax]

...this is very interesting.

It's a video showing the rested accuracy of the AK74 vs. the rested accuracy of AR15. Turns out that in the accuracy department the AR is neither as good, nor the AK as bad, as the AR fan-boys claim. You'll get about 2 MOA out of a decent quality AR and about 3 MOA out of a decent quality AK. What I'd like to see next is torture tests comparing the reliability of the two in adverse conditions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n98LszJAlTE

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

Please don't lynch me for starting another AK vs AR thread, but...

Shakin' out a rope as I type this.

It's a video showing the rested accuracy of the AK74 vs. the rested accuracy of AR15. Turns out that in the accuracy department the AR is neither as good, nor the AK as bad, as the AR fan-boys claim. You'll get about 2 MOA out of a decent quality AR and about 3 MOA out of a decent quality AK. What I'd like to see next is torture tests comparing the reliability of the two in adverse conditions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n98LszJAlTE

Most things are seldom as good as the fanboys claim.

Most things are seldom as bad as the fanboys claim.

 

[Clint M]

Best way is to purchase both, and you do the test yourself. Why not eliminate all the fanboy stuff, conspiracy theories, even advertisements heavy slanted to one or the other. ? This goes much further than just AR's, and you can prop up a brown turd on a video, gold plate it and have everyone ready to eat sausage....
u
edit to add. I have done the above (except the sausage) and chose the AR I prefer the platform to the AK. I'm sure others will chime in to what they prefer.

 

[Oldschool shooter]

I've never been a big fan of the AR, so an AK for me. Accuracy is plenty good enough out to 200 yards, for greater distances I have scoped bolt actions.

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

I've never been a big fan of the AR, so an AK for me. Accuracy is plenty good enough out to 200 yards, for greater distances I have scoped bolt actions.

And so it begins...

 

[crazysccrmd]

It's really simple. A quality AR using quality ammo will generally be more accurate than a quality AK using quality ammo. Shoot a cheap AR with cheap ammo and that quality AK will generally be more accurate. Pretty simple concept.

 

[Bernie Lomax]

I've never been a big fan of the AR, so an AK for me. Accuracy is plenty good enough out to 200 yards, for greater distances I have scoped bolt actions.

This is my opinion, too.

 

[DeepSouth]

It's a video showing the rested accuracy of the AK74 vs. the rested accuracy of AR15. Turns out that in the accuracy department the AR is neither as good, nor the AK as bad, as the AR fan-boys claim. You'll get about 2 MOA out of a decent quality AR and about 3 MOA out of a decent quality AK. What I'd like to see next is torture tests comparing the reliability of the two in adverse conditions.

I figured this out about 3 years ago, via my own personal experience.

Sights on AK's suck, as does most ammo people tend to use, that makes for a lot of the differences. When comparing apples to apples they're closer than most people want to admit, but the edge still goes to the AR.

 

[NWcityguy2]

In the competitive world of multi-gun, which values speed and accuracy, ARs are king of the hill. The controls are faster to manipulate, reloads are quicker and follow-up shots are quicker. At least compared to the AK47, the 5.56 cartridge shoots much flatter, giving the shooter more room for error on range estimation.

However, since most people shoot their personally owned guns for fun, and not in formal competition, there really isn't going to be an end to the debate. If you shoot your gun for fun, shoot the gun you like.

Even though almost all AR vs AK videos are directed at the American shooting public, they often focus on things that have no relation to their target market. Spare parts in foreign countries, teaching the system to people with no education, completely burying the rifle in sand, pouring dirt into the internal components of the rifle, and slamming the gun around for the sake of slamming it around.

 

[atomd]

For practical uses it doesn't matter as much but there's one factor that's missing. You can easily purchase a match grade barrel for an AR and install it at home with a few simple tools. In fact, you can even buy a factory varmint model AR at a box store with a stainless barrel that will shoot sub moa. Some barrels that aren't even that expensive with get you in the 1 moa or even sub moa range. You could also spend as much as a npap and get yourself a noveske or a kreiger or something and then you'll possibly be looking at sub 1/2 moa. A chrome lined m4 profile colt barrel isn't exactly designed for shooting paper....but neither was the m4 anyways.

Now you can accurize an ak somewhat but it's not as easy and you probably won't reach the level of accuracy that you can with the ar platform. You can also get pretty good triggers for the ar as well which can help people be more accurate.

In the end....none of that really matters much for most people. One is not really better than the other in every single way for practical purposes because a lot of that is personal preference. If you like punching paper and measuring groups, the AR is the winner. I do like the AK though.

I have no skin in the game anymore as I sold all my ARs and AKs (I got scar fever). If someone opened up a box that had a $1000 AR and a $1000 AK in it and told me to pick one for free....I'd have to think about it for a bit.

 

[Rudedog]

During my time in the Army I've used M16s, XM177E2s and M4s and had at least 4 ARs of my own. I have fired thousands of rounds through ARs and AKs in a lot of different conditions of environment and state of repair and without optics.
That said I bought an AK years ago and guess what? I still have it. I sold my last AR a year ago. At my advanced age I can still hit targets out to 200 with the iron sights with whatever ammo I buy for it. Don't need a scope or red dot. I don't have to worry about regular maintenance or tight tolerances and problems that dirt and carbon can cause..

 

[Howard Roark]

Is it possible to build an AK that can keep up with a properly built AR? The AMU will not use an AR that won't shoot half minute. The below is not the norm nor is it uncommon either.

"This is an 0.67″, 10-shot group at 300-yards fired from a text fixture. The group measures just 0.67″. (This shows the USAMU’s 600-yard load with 75gr bullets)"
http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2015/05/ammo-paradigms-accuracy-vs-speed-vs-temp-stability/

 

[Rudedog]

Don't believe you could build an AK as accurate as an AR. I have heard the 7.62x54R SVDs are capable of 1.5 MOA. Probably with good ammo.
AKs are built for peasant/guerrilla reliability/simplicity, accuracy is relative. Shooter has to play a role.
Do you want your AR to weigh 11 pounds with a stainless match barrel, rail system, a $1500 scope?
Or can anybody shoot the Colt M4 shown in the video like the average AK off the bench with iron sights?

 

[Inebriated]

Buy both.

I have a BCM and two Arsenals... Both are my interpretation of the pinnacle of quality vs. cost for the respective types.

Personally, I prefer AK's. I have trained with both, and in the case of 5.45/5.56 AK vs. 5.56 AR, it's a toss-up... get proficient with one and you'll be fine. Comparing a 7.62x39 AK to a 5.56 AR is a bit different. Recoil mitigation, weight, magazine shape and size... they make the 7.62 AK just that much more work to be effective with. But I have no problem beating up on either one, I have no problem hitting a target with either one, and I truly could not care less which one is more accurate... They both are more than accurate for what I need them to do.

For me, an AR defends the home, but an AK is used for just about everything else. Truck gun, property defense, coyote/deer hunting, etc.

 

[barnbwt]

AK safety sucks, AR charging handle sucks. Both have poor chamber access without needless fiddling (removing dust cover or upper). The two are fairly different rifles at this point, with the ARs being universally M4 light carbines and AKs a markedly larger/heavier weapon; one carries like a toy, the other is just this side of awkward.

The correct answer is, still, the VZ58. AK charging handle, AR-ish safety over the grip, all steel but lightweight construction, aluminum magazines that are still sturdy, last shot bolt latch, readily accessible chamber area, short stroke piston operation (which is kind of a compromise between long stroke and DI as far as moving mass & recoil addition), and a smooth trigger. The only thing lacking is standard top rail/better sights and AR modularity, but even that is changing somewhat with the plethora of furniture and dust-cover optics options.

TCB

 

[Jackal]

Most things are seldom as good as the fanboys claim.

Most things are seldom as bad as the fanboys claim.

Thats why there's never been a Mini 14 that could do better than 6moa right? My factory target model would shoot 5 shot, 1 hole groups at 100y....

 

[dvdcrr]

Here is a fast AK:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aiQr5QRO3-E

 

[MachIVshooter]

2-2.5 MOA is normal for a non-precision AR with ball ammo. However, feed them good fodder, even the less expensive carbines will usually do 1.5 or better.

As for the AK, well, 3-4 MOA is pretty typical with ball loads. Trouble is, there ain't much you can do to improve on that; not a lot of .311" match bullets out there, even fewer that will fit in an AK mag.

For me, though, accuracy is only one reason I prefer the AR. AK ergos just plain suck, IMO, and the controls leave a lot to be desired. No LRBHO is another detractor. And, despite internet lore, the four AKs I've owned were all less reliable than my cheapest AR. That includes a Lancaster Tantal; not a cheap AK.

 

[The Alaskan]

Hw I see it...

You know, I kind of see it like this:

Shooting an AR is like driving a Honda Civic: everyone has one, and for good reason. They're cookie cutters-even with all the fancy gizmos. (ok, fancy cookie cutters.) They get the job done.

Shooting an AK is like driving a Volvo. Boxy. Ugly. Tough. They get the job done.

Shooting an M-1 Garand is like driving a 1957 Chevy Bel Air convertible. Big. Heavy. CLASS AND STYLE and it gets the job done.

 

[Redstate]

Commie vs Patriot discussion

I don't have much to offer to the discussion of accuracy or reliability... I've had only one problem with each of these guns...

-broken bolt (catastrophic failure) on my CMMG AR (glad we weren't injured)
-inoperable trigger on my CAI AK GP1975 due to trigger spring coming out of alignment

However...I do know they "are a hoot to shoot"

Here's my commie and patriot

 

[OARNGESI]

I think most of the problem is people trying to compare the highest quality ar with the lowest quality ak for accuracy. Personally i shoot ars better but only because i like the peep sights better.

 

[Inebriated]

That includes a Lancaster Tantal; not a cheap AK.

Maybe not, but it's still just a parts kit build from a man that turned out to be a rather shady individual...

I've seen you mention how unreliable your AK's were, but never what kind they were or what the problems were.

 

[carbine85]

I haven't watched the video and will do so later. There is a big difference between marksmanship accuracy and practical accuracy.
The AR15 is clearly the most accurate rifle between the two and trying to get an apples to apples comparison is difficult. The AR has several key advantages including ergonomics, sight radius and stiffness.
I can sit down with any of my AR15s and AKs and the ARs always outshoot the AKs.
The AR will shoot accurately out to 400 - 500 yards while the AK47 and AK74 falls off quickly. The AK74 performance is terrible past 300 yards.
I will also point out that the Russians recently started producing a new AK74 with better ergonomics, longer sight radius and claims of 50% better accuracy. They must have seen a need here.

 

[carbine85]

I just went to the video and watched it. One thing I noticed is when presented his AK74 target the group is way larger then 3". He has 2 fliers that probably measure more like 6". I get around 4"-6" with 2 different AK74s and the same ammo.

 

[Tirod]

I know some don't like auto comparisons. but calling the 55-57 Chevy class and style, no. It was the low end of the price market and sold in quantity to those who couldn't afford better.

They were forced to keep them on the road - which is why they were still running when the Fords were on blocks. Consumers moved on with their disposable income.

So, the AK is a lot like the Chevy, a cheap durable gun in the hands of those who can't afford better. And the Garand? Sorry, it was a fancier upscale ride which was rapidly discarded as soon as possible, restyled with fins to accept a magazine but with most of the faults still there. It rapidly fell out of the market place to the newcomers.

Class and style are not what sold Chevy's in the day, neither the AK. Cheap is all they were. Free for most who drank the koolaid about a peoples revolution. The Chevy owner of the 1950s didn't become the Cadillac owner of the '60s, the AK owner in a third world country is lucky to stay alive to see old age.

Only in America is myth allowed to linger long after the actual participants are gone. All because the singular opinion seems to trump fact when it comes down to what some believe.

The AK was never intended to be an easy to use or precision weapon - and the propaganda that a small time engineer in Russia came up with it is just that, too.