Anti-hunting gun owners

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At one time (in my state) you could hunt on your own property , take game , and not need a license to do it . Now , you MUST have a license to hunt your own property or it is considered poaching .
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Sounds like it would be time to move in mind...
 
Poaching has a variety of meanings and connotation according to context, and is widely used in the US to describe almost any illegal hunting activity without regard to how ethical the actual hunting was.

David
 
waynedm said:
I couldn't agree more with this. It's common knowledge that serial killers enjoy killing animals and enjoy watching them suffer. I have a problem with watching animals suffer, I can't stand it and would gladly torture any human that does unethical things to animals. That goes for breeding and training cocks or pit bulls or whatever. I've been attacked on here for saying I'd hunt hunters. All of a sudden the hunters are the ones screaming murder! When the hunters in Wisconsin were gunned down like 'varmints' by Vang I applauded it, it's about time a hunter looked down the barrel of a gun. When I see human suffering it doesn't bother me in the least, but when I say this all of a sudden I'm the one that has a problem.
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Someone like you doesn't belong on this site. With that kind of attitude, you do gun owners NO good at all. Innocent people were killed that day, families were destroyed and many years of family tradition left in ruins and you applaud it? I think you are a worthless excuse for a human being and I hope never to meet you. May you be judged someday the way you have judged others. :mad:
 
Wow. Surely, someone is playing a joke. I'm thinking THR must have been invaded by PETA. Perhaps?
At any rate. Time for a rant.
Human civilization was founded upon our ancestors domination of the living creatures around it. We are responsible for the life and death of every living thing on this planet. And we have the means to exterminate every living thing here. Including us. Right Now.
We also can try to ensure the survival of species while human population expoldes to unprecedented proportions.
Difficult? Hell yeah.
Hunting, and yes, killing, provides a means to ensure that the population of a species is kept in check. For their benefit and ours.
Don't like it? Tough. That's the way it is.
If you want to commit genocide on yours and your own to make room for more animals, far be it from me to stop you.
But look at the statistics and facts and realize most species wouldn't be here if not for recent sportsman's intervention.
Intervention meaning hunting. And more importantly, revenue.

Let's try to keep what we have.
 
To return to an earlier point, I made - why is hunting irrelevant to the RKBA - because hunting could easily be accomplished today with bows and arrows and black powder guns. Might be a tad harder for the folks who like easy hunts but certainly doable.

Defense against governmental tyranny with bows and arrows and black powder - I think not as easily.

Hunting and sports usage of guns are side effects of the purpose of guns being weapons that are efficacious in preventing tyranny. You could easily hunt with the less efficacious weapons.

That was the point of the Zumbo uproar. That was the point of the pseudogun rights organizations that promoted only hunting with bolt action guns.

The use of guns as sports that might introduce folks to guns is just dandy. So might airsoft guns.
 
Someone like you doesn't belong on this site. With that kind of attitude, you do gun owners NO good at all. Innocent people were killed that day, families were destroyed and many years of family tradition left in ruins and you applaud it? I think you are a worthless excuse for a human being and I hope never to meet you. May you be judged someday the way you have judged others.
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That issue has been dealt with, let's move on.
At one time (in my state) you could hunt on your own property , take game , and not need a license to do it . Now , you MUST have a license to hunt your own property or it is considered poaching .
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And for good reason. If a property owner was allowed to shoot any animal he saw on his land, game laws would have no effect. Here in Colorado, the game animals belong to the state, regardless of where they are, and for good reason. I say that as the owner of 35 acres populated by deer, turkeys and numerous other game. The fact that I own the land doesn't give me any title to the game that chooses to roam on it.
 
Huntcast - that may very well be true.

The one thing that does remain though is that while I don't have a problem with legit hunting, I still don't see how it relates to the 2A? Historically, that wasn't the point of the 2A to my understanding.
 
I'm not much of a hunter really

Most animals are just to cute to shoot.
exceptions are made for coyote, jack rabbits and large antlered rats that most people call deer.
I believe in shooting suburban deer because they kill motorcyclist and attract Mountain Lion
 
Holy COW...

or, so I don't offend anyone, maybe I better change that exclamation to GEE WHIZ... :neener:

Lotta good and bad comments, too much to respond to, so I'll just summarize a few thoughts I have:

1) Part of this argument is about freedom of choice. I hunt; I also respect your right not to hunt, AS LONG AS you respect my right to hunt. Start saying we don't need to hunt, and you've crossed a line my infringing on my freedom of choice, and we have a problem. So if you hunt, great! If you don't hunt, fine! Just stop short of trying to win people over to your side, and support that both are free and personal choices.

2) Sport hunting versus trophy hunting is a personal choice. If you hunt for meat, fine; if you hunt for sport, fine; if you hunt trophies, FINE ALSO. If all are within the law, exercise YOUR personal choice and do what you wish to do....just leave others free to make their own choice, and don't be too judgemental about it.

3) A note for the vegans who have posted - thanks for adding to the dialogue. Just an FYI - if you're choosing the vegan lifestyle because you prefer it or find it heathier for you, terrific! If you're doing out of opposition to eating meat or killing animals, please be aware....a University of Washington study (hope I got the university right, it's in the THR archives somewhere) found that the tilling favored in many veggie crops actually kills more voles, birds, and field mice than other methods of planting.....not a knock, just a soft point of thought.

And back to my Buddy Smellvin, who pages ago responded to a comment "I hunt because I can" by saying that it was so wrong he/she couldn't even comment - well, I'm not sure where you're missing this, but I believe the person was trying to summarize my freedom of choice comments above much more succintly than I have; ut i guess they made it so short, you missed their point entirely.

OK, how about we all smile, nod to our friends, and revel in the freedom of choice that we have, which many people in the world do not?

Michael
 
The one thing that does remain though is that while I don't have a problem with legit hunting, I still don't see how it relates to the 2A? Historically, that wasn't the point of the 2A to my understanding.
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I know you don't, and I appreciate the way you stated it. Let me try to explain..... others here can probably do a much better job of it.

The antis of the world do not care what the 2A actually means. They never have, and probably never will. To them, it is an aberration that needs to be rectified. Logic and common sense will not work. Historical definitions will not work. They have an irrational belief that guns are bad, and no one, not even hunters, should have access to one. They want to protect the people from the evil gun owners.

Anti hunters think pretty much the same thing....... they are really the same people when you get right down to it. Instead of handguns, they will go after "hunting" guns as their first priority. They want to protect the animals from evil gun owners.

Regardless WHICH of the antis we are talking about, if hunting is banned, either one will come after the (in their opinion) non hunting guns even harder. After all, if you can't legally hunt, you must be planning on doing something nefarious with that rifle, right?

When hunting is gone, you have lost a major piece of the puzzle you need to stop them from their efforts at banning ALL of the guns. All the logic in the world will not sway them. Explaining the 2A to them will not sway them.

So, the bottom line is........ any threat to hunting assists the enemies of the 2A.
 
except if we embrace a relationship between the 2A and hunting, it fuels the fire for AWB's. Afterall, who needs an AR-15 to hunt? Right?

I understand your explanation, but the way I see it is that hunting and the 2A should be kept separate so that we don't start confusing the issue and playing into comments like Edwards recently made:

Wasn't it something like, "I support the 2A, people should be able to go hunting." (paraphrased and shortened I know)
 
NEEEEEEED

I haven't counted, but I've seen way more than enough assertions involving the word "need" in this thread, as in "you don't NEED to hunt."

I see we're trying to resurrect the Bill of Needs again.

I even watched as "any lawful purpose" was forcibly folded, spindled, and mutilated to show that "what's lawful in one place might be unlawful in another place so what happens if it's unlawful everywhere?"

Don't make me reach for my copy of Logical Fallacies again.

Oh, and another one I've seen here today: elevating personal preference to moral imperative.

Wow.
I don't like doing [foo], so nobody should be allowed to do [foo], and [foo] should be a crime.

My mommy and daddy (priest/professor/girlfriend) told me [foo] was bad, and they wouldn't lie to me, so I believe that [foo] is bad and anyone who does [foo] should be killed -- preferably shot in the back -- because they deserve it.

And tolerance is for wussies who can't handle exterminating people who don't think like I do.​

And, of course, that old standby: HUMANITY IS THE PROBLEM.

Now, to be fair, I was once ignorant, too. In fact, I'll go farther: I was a stupid ass.

Fortunately, for me (and humanity), I found the antidote: the ability to read and comprehend and the willingness to learn and understand new things.

So, for all you closet cowards out there:
Hi, I'm Garry, and I'm a coward.
Hi, Garry!
I've been afraid for years of how personally killing a game animal would affect me.
One day at a time, man!​
I'm gonna find me a grizzled old hunter who's willing to drag a rookie out into the field with him, and I'm gonna find out what I'm made of.​
The rest of y'all: good luck with the soft life. I've had my fill of it.

Disclaimer: It is entirely possible that there are no closet cowards out there. I may be the only one here. It may also be that I'm the only person here who's ever been ignorant, stupid, or an ass. Those of you who are offended by thinking these remarks could possibly refer to you: I'm clearly not referring to you. Those of you who see something of yourself in these remarks, and who are not offended, and who would like to do something about it, please feel free to join me in ruining some old codger's hunting trip so you, too, can learn.​
 
a lot of heat in this thread.

Not sure saying people are ignorant and cowards is the high road, but that's just my opinion.

---- and to add

If we're going to consider ourselves a united community and have discussions, we have to pretend like this is taking place in person.

I'm no moderator, but I strongly advise that people not say anyting in threads that they wouldn't feel comfortable saying to people face-to-face.

I'm not necessarily referring to anybody in particular.
 
I am pro-gun and pro-hunting, but I suppose that I could reasonably see where a pro-gun person would be anti-hunting. In today's society, people on the whole are a lot more squeamish about killing than they were in the past. While I understand that hunting isn't just about the kill, it is obviously a big part of it. Watch that reality show Ted Nugent does sometime. Except for the token vegetarian, all of those people are meat eaters, and pretty much without exception killing a chicken to eat freaks them out, even though they are pretty hungry by the time that challenge rolls around. I don't personally have a problem with killing to eat, or even killing prarie dogs, but I can see where being against that would be ingrained into some people.
 
once again

many people who insist that hunting is somehow "cruel" simply fail to realize what the alternatives are for these animals

they seem to think that if it werent for that hunters bullet these animals would simply lie down on a sunny day in a flower filled pasture surrounded by all their animal friends and peacefully pass on

this is not reality
in nature there is no "peaceful" death
only violence at the "hands"(read claws and teeth) of other stronger animals
often being eaten whilst still alive

some people deny this truth just as they are in denial regarding their own inevitable death

a hunters bullet IS merciful
 
It seems to me that if you choose to equate humans and animals, it would have to be an argument to support hunting! If we are nothing more than the animals, then we are predators. Should lions or bears be castigated because the kill other animals? Should they be castigated because they hunt with "unfair" advantages over their prey? Obviously not.

By the way, I do not equate humans and animals.
 
If we are nothing more than the animals, then we are predators
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If you take away the current usage of the word predator as it relates to humans (rapist, molestor, stalker) and focus on what a predator really is, I am absolutely a predator. I will happily kill for food. Circumstance hasn't allowed me to do that in some time, but the preparation, the stalk and the kill are all thrilling to me.
 
Sorry if this has already been posted, but I only bothered to read through three pages of the this thread before being unable to contain myself any longer ;)

Amendment 9 Bill of Rights
"The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

This is taken to mean that just because the people have a constitutionally enumerated right to keep and bear arms, doesn't mean that there is no "Right to Hunt". I constantly hear the latter implied whenever this topic comes up and it makes me gag.

The founders had an exclusive view of government; one of limited powers and scope. The government should no more have the power to ban hunting then they should to ban golf. Especially on one's own property.

Although banning golf might please some of you... no more old men walking around in funny pants ;)
 
I personally do not care to hunt. However I don’t have a problem with those that do. Provided that it is done in a sportsmanlike manner. Man has encroached on their habitats to the point of starving them. If the herds aren’t thinned they will die of disease, starvation, and the effects of in-breeding.

wooderson: (Which isn't even to get into my feelings on the 'hide-put out food-blast away' school of hunting.)
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I fully agree with this statement. This is not hunting; it is slaughtering. I put it in the same category as “fishing” with a telephone magneto. Otherwise I have no problem with those that choose to hunt or supporting their rights to do so.
 
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Again: No game animal population in the U.S. is in any danger from other than residential developments in habitat areas, pollution, or vehicles.

Wild turkey and whitetail deer populations are greater than ever before known, from the efforts funded by hunters to establish huntable populations in areas where they originally were uncommon or had been over-hunted in the 19th century.

"Hunting" and "sport hunting" in today's U.S. means within the contraints of the game laws originated by hunters and administered by wildlife agencies. These constraints include seasons, bag limits and size limits. Millions of people have no difficulty operating within these constraints.

"Poaching", "game hog", "unethical" and "not fair chase" are not part of the deal. Wasting of meat is not part of the deal. I've no idea if it's many hundreds or a few thousand who fall into this arena of nastiness, but they're a very small number in comparison to honest hunters.

Art
 
I've no idea if it's many hundreds or a few thousand who fall into this arena of nastiness, but they're a very small number in comparison to honest hunters.
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Very true, unfortunately it is the small number of abusers who get the notoriety because writing about the multitude who obey the law, hunt ethically, assist with conservation and restoration, etc. doesn't generate the attention-grabbing headlines that sells newspapers and TV commercial time. Good news isn't profitable.
 
Quote:
wooderson: (Which isn't even to get into my feelings on the 'hide-put out food-blast away' school of hunting.)
I fully agree with this statement. This is not hunting; it is slaughtering. I put it in the same category as “fishing” with a telephone magneto. Otherwise I have no problem with those that choose to hunt or supporting their rights to do so.
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Baiting game is no different than baiting fish. When it's allowed, it is a legal, ethical, and humane way of hunting. Deer hunters who hunt farms use acres and acres of bait.
You see?? You guys are unknowingly spouting the anti propaganda, even while you say you SUPPORT hunting!
Don't you see how easy it into fall into this? Are we going to let them sway us with the anti gun stuff this easily?
 
I always tell people when they ask why a hunter needs an 'assult' rifle that the second amendment is NOT the right to go hunting.

I don't hunt but I pity the poor animal that breaks into my house.
 
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