Anti-hunting gun owners

Status
Not open for further replies.
I just have 1 question, for all of you who question this hunting practice or that. If legal, and if no person's rights are infringed, why does it matter what the practice is?

I mean seriously, are you for a free society or not?

Part of the problem with so many I see on here is that they are all about not having their rights infringed, but each of us need to remember (I include myself in this as well) that unless my or another PERSON's rights are infringed then I should not be in the least bit concerned about it.

Hunting Lodges, trophy farms, preditor hunting, even someone leaving meat lying there etc. may not suit you but tell me exactly who it does hurt? Who's rights are infringed? Remember I said rights infringed, not feelings hurt.
 
I don't hunt and never really did, except for varminting. I don't like the taste of venison, so that's out. I do like buffalo, but I can't see myself on that sort of hunt, either. I did buy a particular Contender barrel with the notion of a bear hunt that never panned out. That said, I am a firm believer in hunting, for those that live and breathe it, and I love the aspect of spending days in the wild outdoors. As one here said though, I'd rather use my camera to capture the wildlife. But I certainly can't and don't begrudge hunters their favorite pastime. I don't even have anything against trophy hunting. Especially in Africa, where 20 years ago it was $10,000 for an elephant hunting license. There is no waste when it comes to trophy hunting in Africa; the semi-local tribes see to that. I had a friend that had been on several African safaris, though never any of the big 5, as he didn't want to pay the heavy fees. Even there, I would much rather hunt with my camera.

But I have been a shooter for amost 40 years, and I dearly wish I would get the same respect for my love of any type of guns from many hunters that feel their hunting rifles are the only guns that the Second Amendment protects.

I am pro-hunting. I just wish all hunters were pro-GUN.
 
WildcatRegi - that's my point.

If we start mixing things, we defeat our own legit argument. What some are basically advocating is that the following take place:

Us: "I think I'll go hunting this weekend. Maybe deer, maybe turkey, whatever season it is."

Antis: "What makes you think you have the right to go kill animals?"

Us: "You're questioning my rights? Have you heard of the 2A? Do you support the bill of rights? Obviously you don't I suppose."

Antis: "Ok, fine, you can go hunting, whatever. Why can't we ban AR's though, do you really need an AR to hunt?"

Us: "What are you? Dumb or something? The 2A has nothing to do with hunting. It has to do with us protecting ourselves. Why should we be limited as to what means we can use to protect ourselves. It's our right. The 2A!"

Antis: "But I thought you just said that the 2A protects hunting, and that it was part of your 2A right to go hunting?"

Us: "It is!"

Antis: *scratching their heads* "I don't get it. Are you sure you've made up your mind as to what the 2A actually is?"
 
You are assuming that the antis use logic and will appreciate a logical argument.
They are IRRATIONAL. By definition, they could care less about your 2A logic.
They think hunting and the 2A go together hand in hand. No amount of debating by you will change an antis mind.
Unfortunately, there are gullible politicians and judges who listen to them.
This is nothing new folks.......
It has happened in every country where guns or hunting have been banned.
Ban one, the other falls. It's that simple.
 
I'd be careful seperating hunting from guns in general. While the 2nd Amendment doesn't specify hunting as a use of firearms, it doesn't preclude it, and several states do include hunting in their Constitutions.

In my experience, hunters are more open, in general, to the idea of gun rights and sport shooters are more open to the idea of hunting, than the general population.
 
Don't underestimate the antis. That's a losing strategy.

Barbara - I'm not sure we'd be separating it. To be honest I think legally it already is separated.

Maybe somebody has some kind of case law on the subject where we can read a judge's decision on the subject.

I'm talking federal 2A here. Some states for all I know may mention hunting in their state constitution.
 
Hunting and weapons are linked, if you don't know that you haven't been paying attention very well for the last 10,000 years. THEY see us as connected because we are, like it or not. Standing united doesn't mean you are always going to like the man whose shield shelters you, or the one you protect. We don't have to marry each other, we just have to be together for strength and we will need all we have and more.
 
I can't believe that I've missed this thread. Moreover, I cannot fathom some of the things I've read in the last 10 pages.

This thread is like trying to nail Jello to a wall. Everyone keeps hammering, but not much is gained.

So, I suppose it would be uncharateristic of me not to join the fray....


I don't suppose I fit into any mold here. I am an unabased animal lover. Yet, I am also a hunter. I don't consider myself a sportsman, and I make NO effort to make my hunts more "challenging" nor will I in the future. I DO have a mount on my wall in my hunting camp of a deer I killed a number of years ago. I ate the animal and I see no reason for not mounting it since I already had the mount. That is the same for practically every hunter I know. I don't consider that trophy hunting or unethical.

In terms of the animals I hunt, I am a killer. I am a predator. It IS that simple. I take absolutely NO pleasure in killing any animal, nor to I feel that I should. If anything, I try to distance myself from ANY emotions while I hunt.

And I do this BECAUSE I am an animal lover. I am not embarassed or ashamed to say that I shed a tear after my last deer kill this past season-- and I have in other seasons.

I also HATE cleaning an animal. I inherited my grandfather's weak stomach when it comes to smells. Any time I clean a deer, I assure you that I will get sick at some point.

So why would I do something like hunting????


I hunt for a variety of reasons:

1. First, I am not a hypocrit. I DO eat meat. If someone is willing to eat meat, they should not have an issue in having to kill it. Anyone that condemns hunting but still eats meat IS a hypocrit-- and it IS that simple.

2. I eat what I kill. Very few can say that they ate more venison in the last 12 months than they did beef. Frankly, it is more healthy as venison is a leaner meat than beef. I don't worry about hormones or other questionable raising practices, and it IS more economical.

3. It is part of my heritage. The land I hunt on has been managed, hunted, and maintained by a Warren since 1789.

4. For over 30 years, our family has participated in Mississippi State A&M's Wildlife Management Program. We jump through a LOT of hoops by sending in samples and observations. We invest in the health of our herds. At the end, we are told how many animals of both male and female must be removed from the herd annually to provide for the best genetics and health. The deer in this area have benefited greatly from our efforts.


I do want to explain a couple things about the nature of hunting in my world:

I see a lot of criticism of using high power optics and rifles that asserts this practice isn't sporting. Who gives a crap??? As I said, I have no interest in making my hunt challenging. I DO have a STRONG interest in making sure my shot is clean, the kill is fast, and the animal doesn't suffer at ALL.

Those that make the argument of a more challenging hunt do not factor in the VERT REAL possiblity of making a poor shot that ensures an animal will die a suffering death or worse-- will have a life-long dibilating injury. I kill swiftly and painlessly. How does that make me less ethical? Frankly, I dont eat veal for the same reason that I stive for a clean kill. Unnessary suffering isn't part of my diet.


Every year, I determine how many animals I need in my freezer for the coming year. If I need one, I kill one. If I need three, I kill three. Once I hit that amount, I don't hunt again that season.

Finally, has anyone ever BEEN to a slaughter house to see how that beef in the supermarket is processed? Has anyone ever contemplated where that Big Mac comes from? People kill animals daily-- a LOT of them. Distancing yourself from the ugly part of it in no way diminishes your part in this process. As some others have said, I do respect vegitarians that may disagree with me. At least they can't be considered hypocritical.

To me, a deer living free, and living many years has a much better quality of life-- and a longer life-- than a cow that is penned, bludgeoned, and processed. To those that say hunting is inappropriate because there are FARM animals that are killed for that are probably the WORST kind of hypocrits. Now if you are saying it isn't your choice for this reason, but not against it, that is another story. Everyone has preferences.


John
 
I don't really hunt anymore, if I actually shoot to kill it's usually skunks around my acreage, since they're usually rabid and we've had them attack family members and pets. That said, I'm a strong proponent of hunters rights, despite the fact I've gotten really picky about who I'll let hunt on my property.

I've had way too many "slob hunters" show up the past few years, especially the one's "tracking a wounded deer" hours after closing or forcefully claiming to have permission to hunt my land without having any idea who I am or who owns the property surrounding mine. I've also had it with the idiots that simply hop out of their truck and start shooting 30.06 without having any idea that there are homes, children, livestock and a state highway less than a quarter of a mile from where they're shooting from & most of these fools are shooting toward the highway!

My land is posted no hunting, simply because I've gotten to the point that if I don't know you and you don't take the time to scout and know the area, you don't hunt.

The really strange thing about the "hunters" I've had to confront is that most of them never even pick up and fire their weapons except for the rounds they fire during hunting season... :banghead: They've probably never broken them down to clean them, either... These folks aren't exactly what I consider to be sportsmen. :cuss:

I don't mean to rant, but it seems like it's getting worse every year. Folks from out of the area driving around just itching to shoot guns they're not familiar with without a clue as to what's behind the "target" they're shooting at...:fire:
 
computerguySD:

I think you and I have run into the same people. I could tell you a host of similar stories-- but you've already lived them.


John
 
Thanks computerguySD -- and you as well.

Although I'd have to say this:

I wouldn't be used to seeing those monster-big deer you guys have out there, and you'd think ours were pretty puny. :)

John
 
Last edited:
A most excellent thread indeed. Well posited arguments.

So compelling, I should be in bed asleep, but just gotta run my yap a bit now.
Bear with me and please forgive any rambling, errata, chaos, malpractice, etc.


The right to hunt is essentially the right to life. A natural right. Yep, it's in the constitution too.

We must all eat to live.

Maybe some ammunition for hunters to use to fend off the anti-hunters is in the form of "scientific data" (since common sense is dead to many; and/or common experience is unknown to many) that lack of protein, or better, lack of a proper combination of amino acids that allow the body to uptake a meaningful and beneficial balance of said protein, will result in malnurishment, injury, degraded mental and physical faculty and early demise. (Perhaps hunting rights groups already use this tack?)
When ones bowels are so impacted with highly toxic, putrifying and petrified fecal matter, quite possibly (I'm sure of it) due, in part, to the contaminants found in factory-like, unnaturally occuring, chemical laden fodder that passes for food as sold in the market today. FDA? Yeh, whatever. Supra-genetically enhanced uber-cows..no thanks. Same goes for veggies, so called fresh and natural..buyer beware.

There exists scientifically sound studies that indicate that some folks "need" protein in somewhat differing formats to fulfill their specific physiological requirements. To be healthy.
There's also some interesting stuff on blood-type based nutrition requirements that may prove fruitful..

As to the hunt itself ..
In my book (my lil opinion), there are good hunters, bad hunters and bloodthristy punks.

Thoughtful hunters will not hunt down a specie that is perceived to be endangered, regardless of permits and season. Just like none of us need a law to tell us what is or isn't a suitable arm for xyz. On the same token, a good hunter may well hunt to survive, while possibly breaking some law, yet still use his or her sense of responsibility to the land. A good hunter tries not to waste and will eat what is killed, provide the meat for the family hearth or charity and if able, possibly utilize parts like sinew and skins. A true stewart.

A bad hunter simply hunts beacuase they want to, without thought, with disregard to the ecology, and for no need than for the hunt itself. They are wasteful and boisterous.

Finally, the bloodthirsty punk. He or she kills simply for the sheer thrill of killing a living being. Often slaughtering numerous non-game animals without harvesting anything or mutilating the carcasses.

I don't hunt per se, but I do train a little bit in case the need should arise.
I like to stalk critters (when they'll let me) and put 'em in my sights and dry-fire on 'em. But let my tell ya, it is not easy, especially with a gut-full of McDees cheeseburgers :neener:


Not saying I'm perfect. As a kid, I was once, what I consider now to be a bad hunter.


I feel a strong hunter-ethos instilled in the youth and old alike, be they active in hunting or not, with respect for the land and its ecological balance, respect for the social contract and encouragement to support the second amendment as well as the rest of the BOR, will go a long way in making for a better world than the one we found ourselves in.

OK, enough of my disjointed .02$
Time to sleep.
 
John,

I used to live in Georgia, did my basic training at Ft Polk, and worked in Birmingham when I still had dark hair. I still laugh at what some folks "down there" consider farms :neener:

When we moved back up to SD, I woke up my buddy that had NEVER been north of Tennassee to show him a typical Dakota farm. I don't think he's been right since - lol

Seriously, I had a "bambi" standing next to my truck this morning when I went out to leave for work and a "family" of four took a left turn into a field as I was turning onto the highway.:evil:
 
I still laugh at what some folks "down there" consider farms


hehe... I know what you mean. I hear stories of how there used to be much larger farms down here-- but none as large as the smallest midwest farm.

These days, most farms down here have turned into forestry projects. People have figured out that raising pine trees for cutting is a nice investment. One neighbor of mine lost 1.5 million in trees during Katrina. Wow.

These days, I have started planting Sawtooth Oaks on our land. We lost a LOT of hardwoods during Katrina-- and the deer population has suffered from the lack of acorns and such. I recently learned that these trees grow rather fast for oaks-- and produce acorns in 7 years. So, at this time, I have planted approximatly 50 on our land with an overall goal of breaking the 500 mark. That should make for a very healty forest and rather beautiful to be in.

John
 
I don't mean to rant, but it seems like it's getting worse every year. Folks from out of the area driving around just itching to shoot guns they're not familiar with without a clue as to what's behind the "target" they're shooting at...

ComputerguySD -- I think you have nailed a frightening trend. The antis make it more and more difficult to teach gun safety, more and more difficult for a young boy or girl to shoot, more and more difficult to find a place to hunt or practice.

Then bam! A few buddies turn 21 and decide to go hunting. Even though they've never been introduced to the sport by a Dad or Uncle, they know what hunting is because they've seen Bambi.:rolleyes: You buy a gun, buy the right clothes, buy a license and go out and shoot something. Other than folks like you telling them "stop that!", who's to guide them?

Hunting tradition has skipped a generation or two. The deer camp, the duck blind, the pheasant hunting party. These used to be milestones in any young man's life, but now they are "events" to "experience". There's just too much else to do these days. But there is also a basic yearning to hunt.

There always has been and there always will be lost-cause, slob hunters. I just think, through my experience in the shooting community, that there is a somewhat new group of folks who just don't know what they are doing wrong. Anyone needs to be called out for their unsafe actions, but I hope any growing trend is due more to inexperience that true slobbishness.

THR serves a much-needed purpose to help educate these lost souls. And maybe connect them with folks who will help them learn.
 
Hunting tradition has skipped a generation or two. The deer camp, the duck blind, the pheasant hunting party. These used to be milestones in any young man's life, but now they are "events" to "experience". There's just too much else to do these days. But there is also a basic yearning to hunt.

There always has been and there always will be lost-cause, slob hunters. I just think, through my experience in the shooting community, that there is a somewhat new group of folks who just don't know what they are doing wrong. Anyone needs to be called out for their unsafe actions, but I hope any growing trend is due more to inexperience that true slobbishness.

THR serves a much-needed purpose to help educate these lost souls. And maybe connect them with folks who will help them learn.

Exactly so.
 
Hello! Everyone My name is Mike
I just joined THR 4/5/07 around 11:00Pm and got so into this thread I had to comment.
There's been alot of bad thing said about "trophy Hunters"
or Safari hunts and everyone has their opimions but if you've never done it you could do what my Wife and I did.
She's a Professional Photographer and I've hunted for approx.37yrs and around a lot of the US so 4 yrs ago we decided to take a week long Safari hunt Limpopo Province(Zululand)(Too Cool) in South Africa, with just our camera's.My wife had been twice already, before we we're married with her Parents and convinced me it would be Fantastic!:D
I kept telling her I'd still be back the following year with my Rifles and she'd just smile.
Well we had such an amazing time and got some pictures of a lifetime that we wouldn't have gotten if I had only had my Rifles. I hate to dissapoint my hunting brothers but we've been back one time since then and all I wanted to carry was my Cannon 20D.
I know some of you Hunters would have definately taken your rifles the next time you went but to me It was such a Magical Place,Like stepping back in time and the Animals were so majestic and it almost seemed so unreal at times that I told my Wife that not just the Animals but the landscape and People were all so Amazingly beautiful that I couldn't have brought myself to kill anything even if I had a Rifle and anyway... there was plenty of Deer at home to shoot. I could had gotten the guide to get me a Rifle at anytime and the wife wouldn't have said a thing but honestly I didn't want to.

P.S
Next year it's the OutBack and I will have my Rifle!;)
 
When I was a kid I frequently heard, "Why not? It's a Free Country." But I notice I rarely ever hear that any more.

We used to have the ability to mind our own business and leave the other fellow alone. But I guess that's gone now as well.
 
Maybe somebody has some kind of case law on the subject where we can read a judge's decision on the subject.

I don't believe she was talking about a specific legal strategy, but rather a broad campaign to promote a variety of uses for guns. Frankly, I don't know what would happen if a court took a hard-line, militia approach to the 2nd. Would that open the door to Congress narrowing the definition as to what a militia was? Be careful of what you asked for.
 
Eat what kill. I don't know about that. Just last night I shot a river otter in my lake. They migrate up the streams this time of year and this one made the mistake of knocking on my door. They kill fish just for the fun of it. In our area they are a real nuisance. The turtles can have this one.
 
I'm not a hunter, but I wouldnt try to ban hunting. It settles a primal rage that is inherant in homo sapiens. There is a primal need to kill. If offered meat, a day outdoors in the woods or marsh and a rifle to just plain shoot stumps or paper with, I believe most hunters would still need the kill to be satisfied. Aint nothing wrong with that, its just nature. It is a pitty that there are so many hunters out there that only shoot just before season starts. I have seen A LOT of craptastic marksmanship out there......
 
We used to have the ability to mind our own business and leave the other fellow alone. But I guess that's gone now as well.

qajaq59,

That pretty much sums up this whole thread. The leftist mind and activity control indoctrination is almost complete in this country as is evident by many of the posts here.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top