Anti no longer, have questions though.

[Twistedgimp]

Hello all,

I have been addicted to this site for almost a week, I have never posted to a forum before so please bare with me, I have a few questions that I hope can be answered.

As I stated before I used to be anti-"hand gun" I felt that the only reason someone would want one was so they could use it for something illegal or immoral. I have always loved long guns, and owned many over the years. I just didn't really see the use for a hand gun. I felt that my rifels and shotguns were more than adequate for personal protection, Till I was accosted at knife point for $17.00 and a ring my mother gave me (very sentimental). I was moving to Florida and made a wrong turn, stopped to ask directions and on my way back to my car was accosted as previously stated, I was never in my life more afraid than I was right then, and kept thinking " I have a whole trunck full of guns not more than 30 ft away" but for the life of me didn't know how to get to them without taking it in the back or something. I did the only thing I could think of, I threw the money on the ground in front of me and as he bent over to pick it up I kicked him as hard as I could in the face (steel toed combat boots!) and ran like heck to my car and got the f*** out of dodge. It took over two hours and passing the state line to calm down.

I still didn't go out and buy a hand gun thinking to myself that I got through it alright and it would probably never happen again, you know once in a lifetime occurance. So life goes on I move to Florida and two years go by peacfully, I find myself at a neighborhood bar conversing with the cute bartender, who would go out of her way to hang with me when not waiting on customers, we were friends thats all, one night her boyfriend comes in and downright ugly with me for talking to her, I apologised and insisted we we're just friends and that shouldn't bother him, offered to buy him a beer and he decks me, I am a little guy so there wasn't much I could do about it considering he was three times my size. I do the only sane thing I can do and proceed to leave. In the parking lot him and his two buddies both his size chase me to my car and slash my tires before I can leave, I call the cops on my cell and they get there and make a report and tell me that they can't arrest the guy because it's private property and I am the only witness, OK>>>>>> well at least I'm still alive right? Only thing hurt is my pride, I can live with that...

I still don't feel compelled to purchase a gun, another few years go by and due to a serious injury from a motorcycle accident I find my self back in the midwest living with family cause I can't work the kinds of jobs I used to (directional boaring, construction) and need to educate myself in a different trade so I can care for myself. I live with my brother and his wife, and my 3 month old neice. This is present time, we live in apts and had a rash of car and apartment burglarys in the last few mths. My sister in law's car was broke into and radio stolen, I felt that things like that happen, chalked it up to local hoods, no biggie, a radio can be replaced. It wasn't till I heard a noise at the door at almost 4:00 am that I realized that sure I could dial 911 and pray they get here in time,through the peephole I can see at least three men one of which is trying to pry my door open with a crowbar, I hear the wood start to crack and I guess I panick, I hear myself screaming to my brother "Grab the guns someone is trying to break in." Upon hearing that they take off, and we call the police. 45 min later they show up to take a report.

The next day I found out they hit 17 cars and 3 apts that night all in my complex, that did it for me, and my brother. We found a good gun store and both purchased an inexpensive pistol. I bought a Kel-tec .32 and my brother got a walther p22. I realize that they arn't the best for protection but for what we could afford it sure beats throwing carpet lint at sombody who is intent on doing harm to me and my family.

Here come the questions, I apologise for blathering incessently but had to give context for my concerns.

(1) Am I just reacting badly to a remote possibility that something will happen, and I would've wished I had if I hadn't.(got the gun)
(2) There is no ccw here, it isn't against the law to open carry by state law, but county and city have there own laws about that, gennerally it's frowned on and could land me in jail so I leave it at home, and feel naked without it. I don't want to break the law but I don't think a BG would let me run home and get protected and come back later. (Am I just being paranoid because of what happened recently?)
(3) I have every intention of getting formal training by a certified instructor cause i've only shot a few hand guns, I get 4 inch groupings with a rifel at 100 yds but a pistol isn't the same at all. (Can anyone suggest a course in KC Kansas, would also like to learn how to shoot instintivly, are there courses for that or is it something you have to teach yourself?)
(4) I am looking to purchase a larger cal. gun and am looking at a Rugar, double/single with decocker, price is a little over 300.00, can't afford to spend much more than that, I know Rugar makes a fine 22, but don't know if it would be my best bet, any suggestions or help in this matter would be very welcome.


P.S. I was in no way belittling the police, I realize they have alot to take care of around here and don't blame them for response times, They were aware we were in no immediate danger and maby they helped someone while we were waiting.

All replies will be appreciated,
Thanks.

 

[cslinger]

Geez, man I am so sorry to hear about all of your misfortune.

For $300 you could purchase a very nice CZ or Ruger in 9mm or .40 caliber. Both are excellent firearms with the CZ probably getting the edge in overall quality. I would probably stick to 9mm since it is cheap to shoot and with quality ammunition you have potent defensive ammo. CZ75s and Ruger P95s come to mind. Both should be around $350ish maybe less and both have pre ban magazines in plentiful amounts.

The problem with laws are they are the law. I will not tell anybody to break the law. But like anything you takes your chances and you pays your dues. If you make a personal decision to break the law you must be at peace with the fact that you may very well have to go to jail at some point because of your decision. There have been instances where people have been 100% in the right to defend themselves and still gone to jail because they used an illegally carried weapon. So I cannot in good faith tell you to break the law.

It's time to get active and write letters to all your reps. It doesn't take much time, it's not expensive, it's not hard and if enough of us do it things can change. Look at the rise of conceal carry across the nation. Join a gun rights group also. The NRA gets a lot of heat but they are the big gorilla so to speak.

Go with the basic NRA pistol course as a great starter. From there you should be able to work on specific things to make yourself a better shooter. Practice, practice, practice, practice.

Just for the record if a bunch of people were trying to break into my house it is the LONGGUNS I would be going for.

Just out of curiosity in your mind why were handguns specifically BAD but long guns were not? Were all long guns ok, how about those evil, bad, black assault style weapons....were they ok in your minds eye?

I am not attempting to make fun I just am interested in what makes someone believe that sporting shotguns are ok but this isn't. Rifles are ok but this is not. Etc.

Once again I am sorry for all of your misfortune. Welcome to The High Road.

Take care,
Chris

 

[Andrew Rothman]

Wow. They say that a conservative is a liberal who has been mugged!

It's not paranioa to want to be able to defend yourself in the face of violent attack, any more than it is paranoia to have smoke detectors and fire extinguishers. I figured out once that one is far more likely to die of violent crime than by house fire.

I carry a Ruger KP95DC, and I think it's great. It's inexpensive, utterly reliable and quite accurate. Quite a few folks here carry one as well.

I carry (legally, as my state doesn't ban it) in a SmartCarry holster. See www.smartcarry.com. This allows me to carry everywhere, wearing anything, without being noticed.

And I carry wherever I go. It's easier than trying to predict where unpredictable danger may come from!

As for carrying illegally, that is a decision only you can make. I am 34 years old and I have NEVER been frisked in my life, so if you feel the need, and you are the type to keep out of trouble, carrying discreetly may be an acceptable risk.

Good luck and welcome to the forum.

 

[jcinkc]

Head on over to the Bullet Hole in Overland Park. They have a good selection of handguns at reasonable prices. Lots of training opportunity, too. Just ask Jeff, Jim, Chad , or any of the other staff. They'll be glad to help. The indoor range is relatively inexpensive.
Good luck.

 

[Sprout]

Sorry to hear about your run of bad luck, but it's great that you've made it through all of that ok.

(1) No, I don't think you are overreacting. If any one of those incidents had happened to me I would have felt more than justified in taking steps to prevent it from happening again.

(2) I wouldn't carry illegally, personally, but I haven't gone through what you have either. I carry FOX Labs pepper spray. I've heard very good things about it.

(3) Training is a great idea. The NRA Basic Handgun course is a great place to start.

(4) Ruger makes good guns. However, satisfaction with a gun is very subjective. Try to find a range where you can rent guns and try a bunch out. I must have tried 10-12 different 9mm pistols--SIG, Ruger, HK, Beretta, Glock, Browning, Kimber, Springfield-- before I bought a CZ for a little under $400. Great gun. You might also want to take a look at .38/.357 revolvers. Simple. Reliable. Easy to shoot, and pack a punch.

 

[OF]

(1) Am I just reacting badly to a remote possibility that something will happen, and I would've wished I had if I hadn't.(got the gun)

It's not remote, it did happen! Apparently more than once...

(2) There is no ccw here, it isn't against the law to open carry by state law, but county and city have there own laws about that, gennerally it's frowned on and could land me in jail so I leave it at home, and feel naked without it. I don't want to break the law but I don't think a BG would let me run home and get protected and come back later. (Am I just being paranoid because of what happened recently?)

Get involved in the local pro-CCW movement. I'm sure someone on here from your state can give you some contact information.

(4) I am looking to purchase a larger cal. gun and am looking at a Rugar, double/single with decocker, price is a little over 300.00, can't afford to spend much more than that, I know Rugar makes a fine 22, but don't know if it would be my best bet, any suggestions or help in this matter would be very welcome.

A Ruger automatic would be a fine choice. You could do alot worse for $300.

for what we could afford it sure beats throwing carpet lint at sombody

Ain't that the truth!

- Gabe

PS: I agree with the above folks also: Ruger 9mm, NRA Basic Pistol Course followed by the Personal Protection Course, get involved in pro-gun organizations working to restore your rights in your state.

 

[Sean Smith]

As I stated before I used to be anti-"hand gun" I felt that the only reason someone would want one was so they could use it for something illegal or immoral.

Like self-defense against muggers & thugs?

Another option to consider if your budget is tight is an old S&W 19 or 66.

 

[TonyB]

In my opinion the first responsability we all have is to keep ourselves OUT of dangerous situations.....Unfortunatly sometimes we can't control that...a handgun is the best defensive weapon you can have....with trainning...in the cases you sited however if you had shot someone(with the exception of the people trying to break in...and only IF the got in)you'd be in jail...at least short term....getting robbed and or beaten up isn't LEGALLY a reason to take someone's life(depending on the state)......there's usually a law about equal force.....
Handgun carrying is a huge responsability........and if you're carrying ILLEGALLY you can get arrested......so weigh the consequences.......many have and decide it's better to be alive and in jail than dead.....
anyway preach mode off.......
Handguns are great fun......I'm glad you saw the Light........now as far as defensive guns........38 spl and above is respectable,but any gun is better than no gun.......you can probably find a good used revolver for uner $300....sometimes an auto too...Rugers are good and tough and will most likely outlast you........welcome to THR it's a great resorce........someone said internet advice is worth the price you pay for it.....so take my advice and others as just that "free".....as always thinking for yourself is advised....
Good luck,and stay safe....

 

[ny32182]

Welcome to THR.

Yes, getting something in 9mm would be a good step up from .32, and especially .22... I don't think its a real good idea to use a .22 for self defense if you can help it. There are lots of cheap 9mms out there. The guns I keep loaded at home are in 9mm and .40sw. The 9mm is a used Taurus PT-92 which I acquired for $278. 15rd magazine, and as soon as I get around to putting a new ejector in it, I expect it will be absolutely 100% reliable with any kind of ammo. The .40 is a Sig P226.

One of your shotguns would also make a great home defense weapon.

 

[Archie]

(1) Am I just reacting badly to a remote possibility that something will happen, and I would've wished I had if I hadn't.(got the gun)

No, you are reacting normally to something that has already happened. The fact that you haven't started "hunting" badguys is a sign you're keeping an even keel.

(2) There is no ccw here, it isn't against the law to open carry by state law, but county and city have there own laws about that, gennerally it's frowned on and could land me in jail so I leave it at home, and feel naked without it. I don't want to break the law but I don't think a BG would let me run home and get protected and come back later. (Am I just being paranoid because of what happened recently?)

Well, yes, but you say "paranoid" like it's a bad thing. Seriously, everyone needs to be prepared. I feel naked without a sidearm.

(3) I have every intention of getting formal training by a certified instructor cause i've only shot a few hand guns, I get 4 inch groupings with a rifel at 100 yds but a pistol isn't the same at all. (Can anyone suggest a course in KC Kansas, would also like to learn how to shoot instintivly, are there courses for that or is it something you have to teach yourself?)

There are training courses, but I live in California; can't help you with local stuff. There are numerous books on the subject, the NRA has a lot of material.

(4) I am looking to purchase a larger cal. gun and am looking at a Rugar, double/single with decocker, price is a little over 300.00, can't afford to spend much more than that, I know Rugar makes a fine 22, but don't know if it would be my best bet, any suggestions or help in this matter would be very welcome.

Ruger autos are very good. For a new handgun shooter, I would recomend a good revolver. Either a Ruger or an older S&W; in caliber 357 Magnum. Start with 38 Special and progress to bigger loads as your experience and ability increases.

 

[ksnecktieman]

Did you ever hear the term, "hide in plain sight"?
When I decided I needed a keltec 32 I went to a gun show, and wouldn't you know,,,,,, the only one there was a pretty robins egg blue. I got the belt clip to carry it with. I showed it to all of my buddies, and all they could say was how much it looked like a toy. I also am from Kansas, so I can carry open, but not concealed. Open works , I clipped it on the breast pocket of my shirt, and wore it for a day, just to guage reactions. No one paid any attention. Some people looked at it, and ignored it, maybe they assumed it was a toy, and was just a political statement, I am not sure, but no one made a scene over it.
Check your city ordinances, KC is a conglomeration of many small municipalities, some in Ks, and some in Mo, and you may have local regulations about open carry.

We did get a ccw law past the legislature a few years ago, but our dear sweet governor Graves vetoed it. I voted for him because the NRA gave him a good grade. That one veto in his first term was enough for me, it must have been enough for some others too, because he only did the one term. Now we need to get the law moving again. Maybe our new governor Kathleen Sebellius will be a little more politically aware.

 

[OF]

I clipped it on the breast pocket of my shirt, and wore it for a day

That's crazy man!

- Gabe

 

[Twistedgimp]

Geeze, I did'nt expect to get any replies so quickly, Thank you everyone!!!

First let me say that I am a law abiding citizen, I don't carry because it's illegal, I didn't mean to seem like I was asking if you all thought I should or not. Though I appreciate the replies.

I would've went for the long guns but due to the injury, and lack of job I was forced to sell my collection to keep rent and food flowing, I have an old Harrington & Richardson 32 magnum revolver, but the revolving mech dosn't work, no help there!!! I guess I could throw it at someone, the hammer is kinda pointy...

I wasn't real clear about the Rugar, I believe it's a p95 9mm, I agree about a 22 for defense, I'd be better off with my knock off ninga sword.

I hear alot about the CZs, haven't seen any in town, but I really wouldn't know what to look for or where to look for it.

The Bullet Hole is where I purchased my .32, I shopped around a little and really liked the people and prices there, the have a good selection and all the ammo you want.

Does anyone know of any Free pistol ranges around KC, Bullett Hole is manageable but would prefer open range if I can find one.

My ill will towards hand guns stemmed from the fact that a BG could have one and you wouldn't even know it untill it's too late, kinda hard to hide a long gun/shotgun when you walk into mc donalds, Yes I realize how Ironic it is for me to want one for that very reason, but I don't want it to go around robbing anyone. I love all long guns, even the so called evil looking ones, I honestly would love to get my hands on a B.A.R.-- even if it was a replica and could only fire 1 rd at a time. I don't see the need (for me) to own a fully auto anything but would love to be able to shoot one once in a while.

As I stated I am really new to "posting" so if I havn't responded to someone yet bare with me, I truly appreciate all the advise and knoledge that you all are shareing with me.

 

[jcinkc]

Head on over to the Bullet Hole in Overland Park. They have a good selection of handguns at reasonable prices. Lots of training opportunity, too. Just ask Jeff, Jim, Chad , or any of the other staff. They'll be glad to help. The indoor range is relatively inexpensive.
Good luck.

 

[OF]

Deja vu...

- Gabe

PS: There's a thread about Ruger autos going on HERE

 

[Rickstir]

Move to Missouri

The Supreme Court hears our case in 6 days. We will win!

Go East man.....go East.

 

[BowStreetRunner]

Welcome to THR
im sorry about your injury and bad luck with hoodlums.........ive revently been living in an area on GA where no one will deliver pizza to the neighborhood.....and its in the middle of town.......i think im lucky to have had nothing stolen or anything (but now im outta there!)
ayways.......id follow the above advice and get trained and a bigger caliber handgun and get involved in the CCW reform movement........Kansas may yet fall next!
cya around
BSR

 

[TarpleyG]

I call the cops on my cell and they get there and make a report and tell me that they can't arrest the guy because it's private property and I am the only witness

Not to beat a dead horse but I do believe that is a lie. If the guy assaulted you (he hit you) and his friends damaged your personal property (slashing your tires) it doesn't matter if you are on private property. You can still file charges against people that do these things. Hell, if the cop were telling thruth, people would be beating the crap out of each other all the time around here. Look at it this way. If you and your significant other (SO) were at home and you started pounding on her (or the other way around) and she called the cops, you'd get hauled of to the county jail post-haste. Guess what, it's private property and there were no witnesses to the assault. It's her word against yours. Anyway, that has long since passed. Just don't believe everything that comes out of a cops mouth unless it's a donut.

As for carrying concealed in KS, is it a felony or misdemeanor? If the latter, I'd be inclined to protect myself.. Concealed is concealed and no one should know.

Welcome to the board. Sorry you had to come over the hard way.

GT

 

[Twistedgimp]

"Not to beat a dead horse but I do believe that is a lie."


I'm pretty sure you are right, but I was younger and dumber then.
The cop wasn't much bigger than me( 5'7" 135lbs) I think he was afraid as I was, not to mention a good ol boy and probably knew the perp. Things in some of the more remote areas of Florida are not as up and up as they are in the bigger cities.

It cost me two tires and some pride, oh and cab fare back to my car. A learning experience for me. I have grown wiser over the years, more alert to my surroundings and less willing to take the same chances I would've when I was 18 and indestructible,(or so I thought).

I can't controll what people do, I can do my best to avoid situations like those in the future. It' dosn't matter how good you are to others, that won't stop one bad person from stomping you if they are so inclined. If you can remove yourself from the equasion great, if you can't you better be able to protect yourself. At least that is what I've come to believe.

Oh, I believe it is a felony to ccw, at least in this city I live in, they dont activly search, meaning if you don't arouse their supision they don't search you and your car.

 

[Standing Wolf]

I hear myself screaming to my brother "Grab the guns someone is trying to break in." Upon hearing that they take off, and we call the police. 45 min later they show up to take a report.

Welcome to reality, friend. You're in the right place.

 

[thumbtack]

I hate to hear of the problems that you have had but I am glad that you are here to share them with the rest of us.


I carried a Ruger P89 for long time and it is a great sidearm.


I took your "carpet lint" statment and made it my signature, I hope you don't mind.

 

[Twistedgimp]

Thumbtack:

I don't mind at all, in fact am somewhat flattered that anyone would think that much of it.


I want to thank everybody who responds to this thread, I find this forum very friendly and informative, though i've a few bad encounters I know there are people out there who have had it worse. I am honestly better off for experiencing life at a harsher level, "Learn from our mistakes lest we be doomed to repeate them".

 

[7.62FullMetalJacket]

Welcome.

Good advice all around.
Sorry for your woes.
My advice: Don't be a victim anymore.
Pick up a Mossberg Persuader for $200. That is probably all you will need for the house.

 

[BHPshooter]

Welcome to the High Road.

I'm sorry to hear about your misfortunes, but I'm glad to hear that you've learned what pistols are really for -- saving your own bacon. The premise behind being armed is stated perfectly in another thread, but it is basically that our desire for having a pistol is not to be dominant over others, but to level the playing field. This comes to mean more to us as we get older and have more physical problems... Heck, I'm 20 and I've got plenty problems of my own.

Ruger automatics are supposed to be very good pistols, at a great price. I would strongly recommend a 9mm, since it is a potent enough round for self-defense, but can be had for a steal, meaning you can afford to practice more. Practice is essential.

Some pistols you might look at:
Ruger P89
Ruger P95
CZ-75
Taurus PT-92 (Beretta 92FS clone)
FEG PJK-9HP (Browning Hi Power clone)

All of the above are generally of high quality, and hi-capacity magazines can be found readily and cheaply for each.

Again, welcome. We always enjoy more company.

Wes

 

[Norton]

Lots of good advice already, but let me add another twist that hasn't been mentioned on this thread but has been discussed in others.

For the "bump in the night" gun, if you are set on a handgun.....perhaps a revolver is the best choice. Granted that you give up a couple of rounds in the capacity department, but a revolver will go boom when you pull the trigger without regard for a safety, being cocked, etc.

There's less things to worry about and when you are awakened from that dream you don't need to think about all of those things with a revolver......just point and shoot.

FWIW